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Subtract 1 or 2 grades for this NTC? (update / have coin)

JJMJJM Posts: 8,035 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
Just a update if anyone cares,...got this coin today and cracked it out. The good news is the comments about halo around the stars was the photo I believe....The coin has much better detail on the rev feathers as well and displays some nice luster and flowlines. the downside is the coin was certainly dipped....Im personally calling the rev a 64 and the obv a 62 because the marks on the jaw are a little deeper and distracting personally than in the pic,....and recording it as a raw 62.
Overall pleased considering the pics
thx for those who chimmed in earlier

BTW, The nice original xf40 this one replaced in my date set happily moved over to my toned set






++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

grabbed this one to crackout to replace a XF40 in my raw set.....think its a 62?63?60?
Ive only got 1 or 2 other coins by NTC and they were both at least a grade over

dont have it in hand yet tho....

opinions always appreciated

image
image

imageimage
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Comments

  • DennisHDennisH Posts: 13,995 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Looks AU58 to me.
    When in doubt, don't.
  • RampageRampage Posts: 9,471 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It kinda looks a little cleaned, no? On the obverse left stars, there appears to be a halo around stars 2-6, and around the chin of Liberty. How does it look in person? If me, I would grade it Unc Details, net AU58.
  • NumisOxideNumisOxide Posts: 10,997 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It looks AU. There seems to be wear on the obverse.
  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 20,016 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Looks like a polished BU.
    John
    Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
  • JJMJJM Posts: 8,035 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I thought it may looked cleaned and some wear, but there seems to be some nice luster in the fields on the Rev, but the breast looks worn, might just be the angle.....for VF money, I guess I will seeimage
    👍BST's erickso1,cone10,MICHAELDIXON,TennesseeDave,p8nt,jmdm1194,RWW,robkool,Ahrensdad,Timbuk3,Downtown1974,bigjpst,mustanggt,Yorkshireman,idratherbgardening,SurfinxHI,derryb,masscrew,Walkerguy21D,MJ1927,sniocsu,Coll3tor,doubleeagle07,luciobar1980,PerryHall,SNMAM,mbcoin,liefgold,keyman64,maprince230,TorinoCobra71,RB1026,Weiss,LukeMarshall,Wingsrule,Silveryfire, pointfivezero,IKE1964,AL410, Tdec1000, AnkurJ,guitarwes,Type2,Bp777,jfoot113,JWP,mattniss,dantheman984,jclovescoins,Collectorcoins,Weather11am,Namvet69,kansasman,Bruce7789,ADG,Larrob37
  • JJMJJM Posts: 8,035 ✭✭✭✭✭
    so cleaned and 5-7 grades overgraded is par for the course at NTC????
    👍BST's erickso1,cone10,MICHAELDIXON,TennesseeDave,p8nt,jmdm1194,RWW,robkool,Ahrensdad,Timbuk3,Downtown1974,bigjpst,mustanggt,Yorkshireman,idratherbgardening,SurfinxHI,derryb,masscrew,Walkerguy21D,MJ1927,sniocsu,Coll3tor,doubleeagle07,luciobar1980,PerryHall,SNMAM,mbcoin,liefgold,keyman64,maprince230,TorinoCobra71,RB1026,Weiss,LukeMarshall,Wingsrule,Silveryfire, pointfivezero,IKE1964,AL410, Tdec1000, AnkurJ,guitarwes,Type2,Bp777,jfoot113,JWP,mattniss,dantheman984,jclovescoins,Collectorcoins,Weather11am,Namvet69,kansasman,Bruce7789,ADG,Larrob37
  • Steve27Steve27 Posts: 13,274 ✭✭✭
    IMO AU polished.
    "It's far easier to fight for principles, than to live up to them." Adlai Stevenson
  • fcfc Posts: 12,793 ✭✭✭
    polished. eagle's breast does not seem to be wear but polishing.
  • BECOKABECOKA Posts: 16,960 ✭✭✭


    << <i>polished. eagle's breast does not seem to be wear but polishing. >>



    I was going to say the same thing, looks polished from the pics..

    I have bought several NTC coins over the years for crossovers. The best and also average is downgrade by 2. I have had a few downgraded by 4 and a couple returned for altered surfaces.
  • LanLordLanLord Posts: 11,714 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Looks buffed to me
  • JJMJJM Posts: 8,035 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have had a few downgraded by 4

    thats just poor quality for a company that is claiming to grade / certify coins, I kow there 3rd world but come on !!!
    I might even have that beat here ! LOL
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  • DennisHDennisH Posts: 13,995 ✭✭✭✭✭
    "so cleaned and 5-7 grades overgraded is par for the course at NTC????"

    No. In my experience this would rate as a huge extreme. I've actually had several Morgans cross (in the holder and out) within one grade at PCGS, although usually it's two.

    Every service has its bad moments; this one just looks like a whopper.
    When in doubt, don't.
  • BECOKABECOKA Posts: 16,960 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I have had a few downgraded by 4

    thats just poor quality for a company that is claiming to grade / certify coins, I kow there 3rd world but come on !!!
    I might even have that beat here ! LOL >>



    I have found that they have a hard time distinguishing the difference between AU and MS. There are a bunch of AU58 gold coins that if there was no rub they would easily be MS62 or 63.
  • airplanenutairplanenut Posts: 22,175 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Color/lustre looks off = cleaned/polished

    Break in lustre in front of face = AU
    JK Coin Photography - eBay Consignments | High Quality Photos | LOW Prices | 20% of Consignment Proceeds Go to Pancreatic Cancer Research
  • JJMJJM Posts: 8,035 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Guess I'll take a AU to fill the hole for VF money and the curiosity on the grading........Guess i'll update the thread ina week or so when I see it to update ya if we have as large a miss as it appears on the grade......

    here's one of my other NTC's that I thought ended up being 63

    image
    👍BST's erickso1,cone10,MICHAELDIXON,TennesseeDave,p8nt,jmdm1194,RWW,robkool,Ahrensdad,Timbuk3,Downtown1974,bigjpst,mustanggt,Yorkshireman,idratherbgardening,SurfinxHI,derryb,masscrew,Walkerguy21D,MJ1927,sniocsu,Coll3tor,doubleeagle07,luciobar1980,PerryHall,SNMAM,mbcoin,liefgold,keyman64,maprince230,TorinoCobra71,RB1026,Weiss,LukeMarshall,Wingsrule,Silveryfire, pointfivezero,IKE1964,AL410, Tdec1000, AnkurJ,guitarwes,Type2,Bp777,jfoot113,JWP,mattniss,dantheman984,jclovescoins,Collectorcoins,Weather11am,Namvet69,kansasman,Bruce7789,ADG,Larrob37
  • BECOKABECOKA Posts: 16,960 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Guess I'll take a AU to fill the hole for VF money and the curiosity on the grading........Guess i'll update the thread ina week or so when I see it to update ya if we have as large a miss as it appears on the grade......

    here's one of my other NTC's that I thought ended up being 63

    image >>



    When you get to MS65+ NTC seems to be 1 or 2 points off. It is hit or miss so the pricing usually ends up in between the two lower grades.
  • rsdoug81rsdoug81 Posts: 682 ✭✭
    AU58 cleaned
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,271 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Looks BU to me (Been Used and Buffed Up).image

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • SamByrdSamByrd Posts: 3,131 ✭✭✭✭
    I hate to sound harsh but why would you want a harshly cleaned au? Unless you bought it really cheap its not at all a good type set coin, ntc coins most of the time are problem or overgrades rarely will one get a decent coin. It is preferable to get a nice problem free example even in a lower legitimate grade.
  • RBinTexRBinTex Posts: 4,328 ✭
    AU details net XF45 (cleaned)

    NTC is about the 2nd worst of the "real" (i.e. not homeade "centsless style" slabs) grading services after Accugrade.

    I have MUCH better luck on SEGS when it comes to Morgans. Larry knows his stuff.
  • MyqqyMyqqy Posts: 9,777 ✭
    It looks like AU polished to me....
    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable !
  • RampageRampage Posts: 9,471 ✭✭✭✭✭
    As Dennis has stated, the 5-7 points is a bit extreme. I have bought several NTC coins that have crossed to PCGS within a point, and sometimes, although rare, right on the nose. Some people are relying way too much on the grade on the slab. BUY THE COIN, NOT THE SLAB! If you buy a nice quality coin in a third world slab, then you will not lose. But, if you are aimlessly buying slabs without considering the coin, then you will lose in the long run.

    People seem to forget that these third world companies (even first tier companies) make mistakes in both directions. I've mentioned it on the message forums before, but will again for this. I bought a 1972 Type 2 IKE dollar graded AU50 in a PCI gold slab for CHEAP (e.g. less than $20 I think it was). It was obvious from the picture that the coin was undergraded. I cracked it out and sent it to PCGS where it graded MS63. That is a seven (7) point jump in the right direction.

    With all the above being said, EVERY grading company has at least some "dogs" in their slabs. I've seen them in ALL slabs.

    The most important thing is to have fun in what you enjoy collecting. image
  • constructconstruct Posts: 932
    My first thought was 58. Then I read all the posts about cleaning. Maybe so. The halo around the stars and on the field around the face troubles me. On the other hand the glare on the plastic makes me hopeful that the coin is probably better than the picture--not as washed out. Of course, the glare could obscure hits as well. I think 58 was right and possibly cleaned, but it's hard to tell.

    I've examined only about 50 Indian Head Cents in NTC 63-66 slabs. Most of them I was ready to downgrade 2 points; a few more than that. I thought maybe two of them were graded correctly. Sometimes I thought they even got the color wrong.

    If I were upgrading my EF-40 (which, BTW, is the grade of my own 1903), I think I'd be unhappy with anything less than a 63 or 64. Anything less would make my wonder why I bothered. image
    The strangest things seem suddenly routine.
  • JJMJJM Posts: 8,035 ✭✭✭✭✭
    /
    👍BST's erickso1,cone10,MICHAELDIXON,TennesseeDave,p8nt,jmdm1194,RWW,robkool,Ahrensdad,Timbuk3,Downtown1974,bigjpst,mustanggt,Yorkshireman,idratherbgardening,SurfinxHI,derryb,masscrew,Walkerguy21D,MJ1927,sniocsu,Coll3tor,doubleeagle07,luciobar1980,PerryHall,SNMAM,mbcoin,liefgold,keyman64,maprince230,TorinoCobra71,RB1026,Weiss,LukeMarshall,Wingsrule,Silveryfire, pointfivezero,IKE1964,AL410, Tdec1000, AnkurJ,guitarwes,Type2,Bp777,jfoot113,JWP,mattniss,dantheman984,jclovescoins,Collectorcoins,Weather11am,Namvet69,kansasman,Bruce7789,ADG,Larrob37
  • FrankcoinsFrankcoins Posts: 4,569 ✭✭✭
    This coin has been lightly polished, probably with a cloth intended for polishing silverware.
    Frank Provasek - PCGS Authorized Dealer, Life Member ANA, Member TNA. www.frankcoins.com
  • MyqqyMyqqy Posts: 9,777 ✭
    If you can tell a coin has been dipped in a series that often comes white, then that would tell me that there's a good chance it's been overdipped- then I think it deserves a cleaned, net 60 label.....
    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable !

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