<< <i> An auctioneer can lose his license for knowingly accepting shill bids. But ebay tries to define shill bidding as friends, family, or employees placing LEGITIMATE BIDS on items that they intend to pay for.
>>
The nerve of EBAY!!! Yeah, I make my kids bid until they hit my reserve, and if they win and don't pay, I will neg them AND rip it from their allowances. And my employees - if they don't cough it up, I'll deduct it from their paychecks.
This rationale is so full of bull$hit I can smell it from here.
<< <i>But ebay tries to define shill bidding as friends, family, or employees placing LEGITIMATE BIDS on items that they intend to pay for.
>>
The nerve of EBAY!!! Yeah, I make my kids bid until they hit my reserve, and if they win and don't pay, I will neg them AND rip it from their allowances. And my employees - if they don't cough it up, I'll deduct it from their paychecks.
This rationale is so full of bull$hit I can smell it from here. >>
As somebody noted in an earlier post, that is not what eBay's policy says. That was pulled from an article on about.com.
<< <i>But ebay tries to define shill bidding as friends, family, or employees placing LEGITIMATE BIDS on items that they intend to pay for.
>>
The nerve of EBAY!!! Yeah, I make my kids bid until they hit my reserve, and if they win and don't pay, I will neg them AND rip it from their allowances. And my employees - if they don't cough it up, I'll deduct it from their paychecks.
This rationale is so full of bull$hit I can smell it from here. >>
As somebody noted in an earlier post, that is not what eBay's policy says. That was pulled from an article on about.com.
Russ, NCNE >>
Of course it's not ebay policy, but it's the rationale that Frank provides. Just like when my kids bid. They fully intend to buy, because they know if they don't, I'll beat it out of them.
I just copied this from ebay's SHILL policy and that is exactly what it says:
"Shill Bidding is bidding that artificially increases an item’s price or apparent desirability, or bidding by individuals with a level of access to the seller’s item information not available to the general Community. Shill Bidding is prohibited on eBay. Because family members, roommates and employees of sellers have a level of access to item information which is not available to the general Community, they are not permitted to bid on items offered by the seller – even if their sole intent is to purchase the item. Family members, roommates or employees may purchase items from a seller without violating this policy simply by using purchase options – such as Buy It Now – which do not involve bidding."
<< <i>I just copied this from ebay's SHILL policy and that is exactly what it says:
"Shill Bidding is bidding that artificially increases an item’s price or apparent desirability, or bidding by individuals with a level of access to the seller’s item information not available to the general Community. Shill Bidding is prohibited on eBay. Because family members, roommates and employees of sellers have a level of access to item information which is not available to the general Community, they are not permitted to bid on items offered by the seller – even if their sole intent is to purchase the item. Family members, roommates or employees may purchase items from a seller without violating this policy simply by using purchase options – such as Buy It Now – which do not involve bidding." >>
But would good would this do me? Suckers would not be able to place a higher bid.
ebay NARU'd another forum member a while back because CO-WORKERS were bidding on his auctions. Co-workers are not employees but ebay's interpretation of their own policy is more inclusive than the actual words used. The idea and intent is that anyone that has inside knowledge about an item up for auction should not bid on that auction. PERIOD. Friends and co-workers fit that group.
<< <i>ebay NARU'd another forum member a while back because CO-WORKERS were bidding on his auctions. Co-workers are not employees but ebay's interpretation of their own policy is more inclusive than the actual words used. The idea and intent is that anyone that has inside knowledge about an item up for auction should not bid on that auction. PERIOD. Friends and co-workers fit that group. >>
All the categories listed are those that could conceivably access eBay from the same computer and/or IP address. Co-workers fit that category. Despite their claim, the prohibition has nothing to do with "inside knowledge" and everything to do with the ease of demonstrating that shilling has occurred.
Hypothetical then: I tell a priest in confession how I've overspent in buying coins and going to liquidate some coins so I can pay my bills and feed my kids. Is it okay for the priest to bid on my auctions "to help me out"?
<< <i> As somebody noted in an earlier post, that is not what eBay's policy says. That was pulled from an article on about.com.
Russ, NCNE >>
Uh...about.com is owned by the New York Times, and company-specific sites are paid advertising. The sites are written by "guides" who are paid a minimum of $500 a month. Like any advertiser, eBay is responsible of correcting any errors on the site.
Frank Provasek - PCGS Authorized Dealer, Life Member ANA, Member TNA. www.frankcoins.com
<< <i>ebay NARU'd another forum member a while back because CO-WORKERS were bidding on his auctions. Co-workers are not employees but ebay's interpretation of their own policy is more inclusive than the actual words used. The idea and intent is that anyone that has inside knowledge about an item up for auction should not bid on that auction. PERIOD. Friends and co-workers fit that group. >>
All the categories listed are those that could conceivably access eBay from the same computer and/or IP address. Co-workers fit that category. Despite their claim, the prohibition has nothing to do with "inside knowledge" and everything to do with the ease of demonstrating that shilling has occurred.
Russ, NCNE >>
Basing shilling on the logged Ip address is highly unprofessional as many service providers are apt to use a common http proxy gateway (sometimes transparently through routing policy) over a disparate user community. Additionally, this could be the case for on-premise networks at shows and hotels local to them. Imagine how common it is for a coin buyer and seller to both be online at a local show on both sides of a transaction on eBay.
Cookies would not work if they are looking at two separate logins even if on the same physical computer.
I don't know how many times I have people come examine a coin in person that I am running on ebay, and then ask to use my computer (or their laptop on my wireless network) to access ebay on their account and place a bid. I am sure their data mining would detect that as shill bidding! Well, they shouldn't be bidding anyway, because if you examine the coin, you have "inside information" that is unfair to the bidders in China who want to pay you with a fake money order!
Frank Provasek - PCGS Authorized Dealer, Life Member ANA, Member TNA. www.frankcoins.com
<< <i>Granted, but can anyone that has ever been called by eBay say that eBay shows up on caller ID? >>
Yes, they do. So does PayPal.
Russ, NCNE >>
I get calls from e-bay's sales promotions all of the time. The problem is I do not have a land line so they call my cell phone and I am not aware of a way to get caller ID. >>
Caller ID is STANDARD on my cell phone. What provider to you use?
Jonathan
I have been a collector for over mumbly-five years. I learn something new every day.
<< <i>fyi, if you are in the telecom business, and you control a class V voice switch, we can set the caller ID ourselves when it is our customer to our customer.
the next step to fool someone would be to submit the caller ID name to the central database 3rd parties control. which we do also.
caller ID is not a very good way to confirm who someone is. better to get a phone number from the ebay site, and call them back. >>
That sounds like a felony you are admitting to there guy.
Jonathan
I have been a collector for over mumbly-five years. I learn something new every day.
<< <i>I have conducted over 500 numismatic live auctions over a ten year period, all under the rules of the Texas Dept. of Licensing and Regulation, which incorporates the Uniform Commercial Code in their regulations. Your cowardly anonymous attacks on me are seen for what they are, and are certainly not appropriate this forum. >>
And your JUST NOW going to auction school? This makes no sense. How could you conduct these auctions "over a ten year period" if you are JUST NOW going to auctioneer's school?
Jonathan
I have been a collector for over mumbly-five years. I learn something new every day.
<< <i>ebay NARU'd another forum member a while back because CO-WORKERS were bidding on his auctions. Co-workers are not employees but ebay's interpretation of their own policy is more inclusive than the actual words used. The idea and intent is that anyone that has inside knowledge about an item up for auction should not bid on that auction. PERIOD. Friends and co-workers fit that group. >>
yes, I believe this. NOT! How would eBay know if a friend or co-worker or employee bid on anything? They would not. Could not.
I don't believe a word of this.
Jonathan
I have been a collector for over mumbly-five years. I learn something new every day.
<< <i>I have conducted over 500 numismatic live auctions over a ten year period, all under the rules of the Texas Dept. of Licensing and Regulation, which incorporates the Uniform Commercial Code in their regulations. Your cowardly anonymous attacks on me are seen for what they are, and are certainly not appropriate this forum. >>
And your JUST NOW going to auction school? This makes no sense. How could you conduct these auctions "over a ten year period" if you are JUST NOW going to auctioneer's school?
Jonathan >>
Who said anything about just now going to auction school?
Frank Provasek - PCGS Authorized Dealer, Life Member ANA, Member TNA. www.frankcoins.com
It doesn't show "not a registered user" for Frank. I don't think he's really been NARU'd, just the active auctions cancelled. Doesn't it show NARU when someone is NARU'd?
Jonathan
I have been a collector for over mumbly-five years. I learn something new every day.
Comments
<< <i>
An auctioneer can lose his license for knowingly accepting shill bids. But ebay tries to
define shill bidding as friends, family, or employees placing LEGITIMATE BIDS on items that they intend to
pay for.
>>
The nerve of EBAY!!!
Yeah, I make my kids bid until they hit my reserve, and if they win and don't pay, I will neg them AND rip it from their allowances.
And my employees - if they don't cough it up, I'll deduct it from their paychecks.
This rationale is so full of bull$hit I can smell it from here.
<< <i>But ebay tries to
define shill bidding as friends, family, or employees placing LEGITIMATE BIDS on items that they intend to
pay for.
>>
The nerve of EBAY!!!
Yeah, I make my kids bid until they hit my reserve, and if they win and don't pay, I will neg them AND rip it from their allowances.
And my employees - if they don't cough it up, I'll deduct it from their paychecks.
This rationale is so full of bull$hit I can smell it from here. >>
As somebody noted in an earlier post, that is not what eBay's policy says. That was pulled from an article on about.com.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
<< <i>But ebay tries to
define shill bidding as friends, family, or employees placing LEGITIMATE BIDS on items that they intend to
pay for.
>>
The nerve of EBAY!!!
Yeah, I make my kids bid until they hit my reserve, and if they win and don't pay, I will neg them AND rip it from their allowances.
And my employees - if they don't cough it up, I'll deduct it from their paychecks.
This rationale is so full of bull$hit I can smell it from here. >>
As somebody noted in an earlier post, that is not what eBay's policy says. That was pulled from an article on about.com.
Russ, NCNE >>
Of course it's not ebay policy, but it's the rationale that Frank provides.
Just like when my kids bid. They fully intend to buy, because they know if they don't, I'll beat it out of them.
"Shill Bidding is bidding that artificially increases an item’s price or apparent desirability, or bidding by individuals with a level of access to the seller’s item information not available to the general Community. Shill Bidding is prohibited on eBay.
Because family members, roommates and employees of sellers have a level of access to item information which is not available to the general Community, they are not permitted to bid on items offered by the seller – even if their sole intent is to purchase the item. Family members, roommates or employees may purchase items from a seller without violating this policy simply by using purchase options – such as Buy It Now – which do not involve bidding."
<< <i>I just copied this from ebay's SHILL policy and that is exactly what it says: >>
Apparently, you have a reading comprehension problem. Nowhere in that policy does it say anything about friends bidding, which is what Frank claimed.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>I just copied this from ebay's SHILL policy and that is exactly what it says:
"Shill Bidding is bidding that artificially increases an item’s price or apparent desirability, or bidding by individuals with a level of access to the seller’s item information not available to the general Community. Shill Bidding is prohibited on eBay.
Because family members, roommates and employees of sellers have a level of access to item information which is not available to the general Community, they are not permitted to bid on items offered by the seller – even if their sole intent is to purchase the item. Family members, roommates or employees may purchase items from a seller without violating this policy simply by using purchase options – such as Buy It Now – which do not involve bidding." >>
But would good would this do me? Suckers would not be able to place a higher bid.
<< <i>ebay NARU'd another forum member a while back because CO-WORKERS were bidding on his auctions. Co-workers are not employees but ebay's interpretation of their own policy is more inclusive than the actual words used. The idea and intent is that anyone that has inside knowledge about an item up for auction should not bid on that auction. PERIOD. Friends and co-workers fit that group. >>
All the categories listed are those that could conceivably access eBay from the same computer and/or IP address. Co-workers fit that category. Despite their claim, the prohibition has nothing to do with "inside knowledge" and everything to do with the ease of demonstrating that shilling has occurred.
Russ, NCNE
I remember when i got divorced... wanna hear the story ?
nevermind. to make it short, I am owed over 20 grand in child support... but .. do I cry ?
No way
I feed the kids pork and beans.....
You can cry all you want, but there are problems and there are solutions.
Be a part of one or the other.
I am speaking to no one in particular except myself. This forum allows it
https://acoinshop.com/ —-> https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>
As somebody noted in an earlier post, that is not what eBay's policy says. That was pulled from an article on about.com.
Russ, NCNE >>
Uh...about.com is owned by the New York Times, and company-specific sites are paid advertising. The sites are written by
"guides" who are paid a minimum of $500 a month. Like any advertiser, eBay is responsible of correcting any errors on the site.
<< <i>
<< <i>ebay NARU'd another forum member a while back because CO-WORKERS were bidding on his auctions. Co-workers are not employees but ebay's interpretation of their own policy is more inclusive than the actual words used. The idea and intent is that anyone that has inside knowledge about an item up for auction should not bid on that auction. PERIOD. Friends and co-workers fit that group. >>
All the categories listed are those that could conceivably access eBay from the same computer and/or IP address. Co-workers fit that category. Despite their claim, the prohibition has nothing to do with "inside knowledge" and everything to do with the ease of demonstrating that shilling has occurred.
Russ, NCNE >>
Basing shilling on the logged Ip address is highly unprofessional as many service providers are apt to use a common http proxy gateway (sometimes transparently through routing policy) over a disparate user community. Additionally, this could be the case for on-premise networks at shows and hotels local to them. Imagine how common it is for a coin buyer and seller to both be online at a local show on both sides of a transaction on eBay.
Cookies would not work if they are looking at two separate logins even if on the same physical computer.
NSDR - Life Member
SSDC - Life Member
ANA - Pay As I Go Member
on ebay, and then ask to use my computer (or their laptop on my wireless network) to access ebay
on their account and place a bid. I am sure their data mining would detect that as shill bidding!
Well, they shouldn't be bidding anyway, because if you examine the coin, you have "inside information"
that is unfair to the bidders in China who want to pay you with a fake money order!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Granted, but can anyone that has ever been called by eBay say that eBay shows up on caller ID? >>
Yes, they do. So does PayPal.
Russ, NCNE >>
I get calls from e-bay's sales promotions all of the time. The problem is I do not have a land line so they call my cell phone and I am not aware of a way to get caller ID. >>
Caller ID is STANDARD on my cell phone. What provider to you use?
Jonathan
<< <i>
Caller ID is STANDARD on my cell phone. What provider to you use?
Jonathan >>
I have had Cingular and T-Mobile, and only get phone numbers on caller ID.
<< <i>fyi, if you are in the telecom business, and you control a class
V voice switch, we can set the caller ID ourselves when it is
our customer to our customer.
the next step to fool someone would be to submit the caller ID
name to the central database 3rd parties control. which we do also.
caller ID is not a very good way to confirm who someone is.
better to get a phone number from the ebay site, and call them
back. >>
That sounds like a felony you are admitting to there guy.
Jonathan
<< <i>I have conducted over 500 numismatic live auctions over a ten year period, all under the rules of the Texas Dept. of Licensing and Regulation, which incorporates the Uniform Commercial Code in their regulations. Your cowardly anonymous attacks on me are seen for what they are, and are certainly not appropriate this forum. >>
And your JUST NOW going to auction school? This makes no sense. How could you conduct these auctions "over a ten year period" if you are JUST NOW going to auctioneer's school?
Jonathan
<< <i>ebay NARU'd another forum member a while back because CO-WORKERS were bidding on his auctions. Co-workers are not employees but ebay's interpretation of their own policy is more inclusive than the actual words used. The idea and intent is that anyone that has inside knowledge about an item up for auction should not bid on that auction. PERIOD. Friends and co-workers fit that group. >>
yes, I believe this. NOT! How would eBay know if a friend or co-worker or employee bid on anything? They would not. Could not.
I don't believe a word of this.
Jonathan
<< <i>
<< <i>
Caller ID is STANDARD on my cell phone. What provider to you use?
Jonathan >>
I have had Cingular and T-Mobile, and only get phone numbers on caller ID. >>
I have Cingular. I get names and numbers on my my caller ID.
Jonathan
<< <i>I have conducted over 500 numismatic live auctions over a ten year period, all under the rules of the Texas Dept. of Licensing and Regulation, which incorporates the Uniform Commercial Code in their regulations. Your cowardly anonymous attacks on me are seen for what they are, and are certainly not appropriate this forum. >>
And your JUST NOW going to auction school? This makes no sense. How could you conduct these auctions "over a ten year period" if you are JUST NOW going to auctioneer's school?
Jonathan >>
Who said anything about just now going to auction school?
<< <i> From J Carney....
Trying to pollute yet another coin forum, Frank? >>
How so?
<< <i>
Who said anything about just now going to auction school? >>
You did.
Jonathan
<< <i><< Who said anything about just now going to auction school? >>
<<You did. >>
Alix, below is the only such reference I can find, and I don't think that quite qualifies as "just now going to auction school"
<< just got back from a six hour continuing education class needed to renew my auctioneers license.>> >>
Oh, well it came across that way to me. Maybe my bad.
Jonathan