Ebay strange phone call, then all my auctions cancelled

Frankcoins · May 13, 2006 11:17AM

Got a strange phone call from someone claiming to be ebay asking for my banking information and wanting me to
fax certain records. I was sure this was a prank and the guy said if I would not cooperate, they had no choice but to
suspend my account. I told them I would be glad to supply it in reply to a registered letter, but not to someone I don't
know over the phone. He said, thank you, please check your email.

I got this email:

Hello Frank Provasek (sales@frankcoins.com),

Your auctions(s):

8415702139 1963 Pope Paul VI 1/5 oz gold coin Estimate $200
8416775828 1856-O Seated Half EF40 Retail $130 No Reserve
8416803333 1881-S Morgan Dollar PCI Slab MS65 Retail $199
8416808753 1887 Morgan Dollar PCGS Green Slab MS63 Retail $60
8416996346 Texas Lone Star Note BEP packaged Fort Worth
8417434910 Netherlands Antilles Unc Coins SILVER Retail $55
8418008472 1948 Mexico $5 Chief 1 oz silver Uncirculated
8418014602 1948 Mexico $5 Chief 1oz silver Uncirculated Retail $25
8418016372 1948 Mexico $5 Chief 1oz silver Uncirculated Retail $25
8418017172 1948 Mexico $5 Chief 1oz silver Uncirculated Retail $25
8418025867 2006 American Eagle 1 oz silver Uncirculated Retail $20
8418029502 2006 American Eagle Silver Dollar MS68 Retail $30
8418031650 2006 American Eagle Silver Dollar MS68 Retail $30
8418038779 2005 American Eagle Silver Dollar MS68 Retail $30
8418040321 2005 American Eagle Silver Dollar MS68 Retail $30
8418041095 2005 American Eagle Silver Dollar MS68 Retail $30
8418044416 2000-S Proof Golden Dollar First Year of Issue No Min
8418053965 1965 Eugene Oregon SONA Coin Set & Wooden Nickel
8418055566 1965 Uncirculated Coin Set with Wooden Nickel
8418056792 1965 Eugene Oregon Coin Set with Wooden Nickel Est $20
8418103662 2000 Type 2 Cent Wide AM ICG Slab MS66RD Retail $75
8418109226 Miniature Saint-Gaudens $20 Gold Piece 8K Gold
8418109942 Miniature Saint-Gaudens $20 Gold Piece 8K Gold
8418126615 1973-S Proof Ike Dollar 40% Silver Retail $30
8418383303 1945 $2.50 Gold Coin Brilliant Uncirculated Retail $70
8418387492 1945 Mexico $2.50 Gold Coin Brilliant Unc Retail $70
8418389485 1945 $2.50 Gold Coin Brilliant Unc Retail $70 No Min
8418404273 2006 Silver Dollar First Strike PCGS MS69 Retail $60
8418406243 2006 Silver Dollar First Strike PCGS MS69 Retail $60
8418409206 2006 Silver Dollar First Strike PCGS MS69 Retail $60
8418413957 2000 $5 Gold Piece ANACS MS67 Retail $110 No Reserve
8418416106 2000 $5 Gold Piece ANACS MS69 Retail $140 No Reserve
8418420347 2000 $5 Gold Piece NGC MS69 Retail $140 No Reserve
8418426873 1945 $2.50 Gold Coin Unc Retail $70 GOLD IS HOT!
8418429018 1945 $2.50 Gold Coin Unc Retail $70 1/16 oz troy
8418430418 1945 $2.50 Gold Coin Unc Retail $70 1/16 oz troy
8418431865 1945 $2.50 Gold Coin Unc Retail $70 1/16 oz troy
8419288036 1874 Gold Dollar PCI Slab EF40 Retail $200 No Reserve
8419290549 1923-S Peace Dollar NGC Slab MS62 Retail $75 No Reserve
8419295046 1883 $10 Gold SEGS MS61 Prooflike Retail $500
8419316114 1875-S 20 Cent Piece ANACS G4 Retail $100 No Reserve
8419316844 1883-S Morgan Dollar ANACS AU50 Retail $200 No Reserve
8419317391 1964 90% Silver Kennedy Half NGC Sample Slab
8419412203 1926 Mercury Dime Uncirculated No Reserve
8419413159 1942-D Mercury Dime MS64 Retail $25 No Reserve
8419414765 1863 Indian Head Cent Cleaned AU Retail $45 No Reserve
8419416256 1853 Gold Dollar Ex-Jewelry Retail $100 No Reserve
8419418112 1939 Jefferson nickel MS66 Retail $25 No Reserve
8419421226 1873 Seated Half VF30 Retail $125 No Reserve
8419422408 1926-D Peace Dollar MS63 Retail $175 No Reserve
8419429219 1831 Capped Bust half ANACS AU Details Retail $250
8419432519 1852-A France 20F GOLD ANACS EF Details Retail $175

have been ended early due to your suspension for failure to supply verification information

Please note that any fees incurred by auctions ended due to this suspension will not be credited back to your account.

You will be sent a separate notification regarding your account suspension.

Respectfully,

Customer Support (Trust and Safety Department)
eBay Inc

Sure enough, I am no longer a registered user... I pay those idiots about $500 a month in ebay and paypal fees, and am
treated like that. I sent an email to that little creep on safe harbor who wrote that letting people you know bid on your auctions
is illegal, not only on ebay, but on all auctions online and offline. I cited a couple of references from auction school textbooks
showing that this just isn't so, and could he provide legal citations. I guess this is my payback....

Russ · May 13, 2006 11:20AM

Seems to be an awful lot of this going on lately.

Russ, NCNE

joefro · May 13, 2006 11:20AM

Damn! That looks like a lost of listing work too. And they aren't going to refund the listing fees! Those sons of

nankraut · May 13, 2006 11:23AM

Looks like a poor way of EBAY doing business to me. But if I understand your post, they think you are using "shill bidders". If you did use shill bidding, you deserve to be NARU'D. At any rate, you're gonna lose this one because EBAY has all the cards, and you have none.

Russ · May 13, 2006 11:25AM

<< But if I understand your post, they think you are using "shill bidders". >>

I think he's referring to an earlier correspondence he sent in reference to a help section on eBay. The implication being that his suspension is retribution.

Russ, NCNE

joefro · May 13, 2006 11:28AM

<< 

Your auctions(s):

>>

How do they expect us to sort out all the scammers when they dont know how to type.

Frankcoins · May 13, 2006 11:29AM

<< Looks like a poor way of EBAY doing business to me. But if I understand your post, they think you are using "shill bidders". If you did use shill bidding, you deserve to be NARU'D. At any rate, you're gonna lose this one because EBAY has all the cards, and you have none. >>

I DON"T use shill bidders, but ebay's official page on about.com DEFINES shill bidder as friends and acquaintances, which
are NOT shill bidders if they prefer to buy from you because they know and trust you.

eyore · May 13, 2006 11:33AM

my question is this can ebay take monies & not provide the service? Last I knew that equaled theft. Tme for class action law suit.

BlindedByEgo · May 13, 2006 11:36AM

Wow. Looks like Ebay is on a real tear!

RBinTex · May 13, 2006 11:37AM

It would be a good idea to save ALL eBay listings as an HTML file on your hard drive so that it would be REAL easy to recreate if necessary (assuming listings were cancelled but one wasn't NARU'd).

SamByrd · May 13, 2006 11:38AM

if there is a reasonble chance of shilling they did the right thing, and I hope it is a trend. however they should refund those fees fight em on that you did not get the service you paid for by there choice.

Boom · May 13, 2006 11:40AM

Don't they preach that they will never ask you for such sensitive information as such in an email or in the idiotic fashions they have been lately?

Like how in the world are you supposed to know that the person on the other end of the line is a bonafide eBay employee?

Man, I smell a huge class action lawsuit coming. Granted, it's high time they clean up their backyard but doing it this way is going to get them sued.

rgl1345 · May 13, 2006 11:40AM

<< Seems to be an awful lot of this going on lately.

Russ, NCNE >>

Its Laura's fault!

tradedollarnut · May 13, 2006 11:42AM

This is unacceptable. As of this day, I am deleting all my links to ebay and I will no longer bid on a coin offered for sale on ebay. I will vote with my pocketbook.

Russ · May 13, 2006 11:42AM

<< Like how in the world are you supposed to know that the person on the other end of the line is a bonafide eBay employee? >>

Caller ID.

Russ, NCNE

BAJJERFAN · May 13, 2006 11:43AM

What would be even better is if a bunch of folks could unite forces and start an alternative to eBay. Just kick their big fat asses. Methinks they are getting too big for their britches.

KoinDawg · May 13, 2006 11:44AM

Now we'll see how the "rubber meets the road" as I suspect more big name coin dealers will be asked for personal information. Maybe Legends was the opening volley. Cooperate, you stay on ebay. So "NO", and bye bye.

Boom · May 13, 2006 11:47AM

<< Caller ID >>

Granted, but can anyone that has ever been called by eBay say that eBay shows up on caller ID? I have a couple unknown callers on my box but no #s. I won't even bother picking the phone up for such calls.

Bear · May 13, 2006 11:47AM

The fact is, you can no longer tell

truth from fiction. Either E-Bay finds

a new method to confirm, or folks should

find a new way to sell their merchandise.

Russ · May 13, 2006 11:48AM

<< Granted, but can anyone that has ever been called by eBay say that eBay shows up on caller ID? >>

Yes, they do. So does PayPal.

Russ, NCNE

Boom · May 13, 2006 11:50AM

OK...Great point then Russ. If eBay shows up on my caller ID then I will pick up the phone and we can talk otherwise all unknown callers can just ring till chicken grow teeth.

Frankcoins · May 13, 2006 12:08PM

<< 

<< Granted, but can anyone that has ever been called by eBay say that eBay shows up on caller ID? >>

Yes, they do. So does PayPal.

Russ, NCNE >>

I think caller ID is a racket. Here in Texas, you pay a monthly fee for caller ID. Then callers have the option of
BLOCKING their caller ID. So then the phone company offers and ADDITIONAL fee service to BLOCK calls from callers
who BLOCK caller ID. It also appears possible to SPOOF the caller ID information on voice-over-IP phone lines.

Coxe · May 13, 2006 12:13PM

<< Man, I smell a huge class action lawsuit coming. Granted, it's high time they clean up their backyard but doing it this way is going to get them sued.

>>

As long as a lawyer can assemble such a class, it could and should happen. (I say that even as an eBay shareholder.) Not refunding listing fees and prorated store fees is indeed theft.

CoinResource · May 13, 2006 12:23PM

Can the ANA or PNG help either of these folks?

LanLord · May 13, 2006 12:26PM

Interesting. About 2 or 3 weeks ago someone posted a thread asking if there was anyway someone / some company could create an internet based auction to challenge eBay.

At the time, the pat answer was not a chance.

It looks to me like eBay themselves are making such a challenge not only a possibility, but a likelyhood.

Amazing how someone at that company, probably with a 32 inch inseam, can manage to step on a 4 inch weenie!

08HALA20 · May 13, 2006 12:26PM

I do not understand thier reasons for this action. But if anyone calls me for this type of info.
I would tell them to pound sand.

Even if it is the President.

Rookie Joe

rb345 · May 13, 2006 12:38PM

Whether eBay can retain Franlk's fees despite cancelling his auctions presents a breach of contract issue. Measured by that standard, its conduct seems both artibrary and a breach of the covenants of good faith, commercial reasonableness and fair dealing implied by law into
American contracts in many, if not all, states, and a breach of the express duties of commercial reaosnableness and fair dealing imposed by
the Uniform Commercial Code section, which governs the sale of goods (UCC 2-101), including coins, in all states, because relevant provi-
sions of the Uniform Commercial Code provide as follows:

1. section 2-103(1((b): In this article unless the context otherwise requires ... (b) "Good faith in the case of
a merchant means honesty in fact and the observance of reasonable commercial
standards of fair dealing in the trade

2. section 1-201(26): A persons "notifies" or "gives" a notification to another by taking such steps as may
be reasonably required to inform the other in ordinary course whether or not such
actually comes to know of it.

The real issue here is commercial reasonableness, i.e., whether a phone call is sufficient "notice" to charge eBay's called customers with such
duties of documentation as eBay wants satisfied, or whether the "reasonable required" steps obligation of UCC 1-201(26) imposes a duty
upon eBay to provide reasonable authentication that the demand comes from eBay and not from some imposter or spoofer.

Bottom line: the issue of whether eBay sellers (UCC merchants) have a duty to provide the documentation demanded of Legend and
Frank is separate from the procedural question of whether eBay has fulfilled its own contractual obligations of notice before
suspending them for substantive non-compliance with its document request.

Given the world we live in today, and eBay's own acknowledgments and warnings to customers about pfishermen, imposters
and identity thieves, eBay's refusal to document its identity, and to establish formal procedures to respond to demands that
it provide indisputable written proof that it has indeed made its oral demands, seems to me to be at best a terrible business
business and arrogant, the moreso given the ease with which it can send messages to a member's MY EBAY page.

Tassa · May 13, 2006 12:41PM

<< If ebay suspects schilling then why not suspend the user and investigate ?

Why contact them and ask for all that personal imformation ?

What does that have to do withanything ?? >>

Good question.

Boom · May 13, 2006 12:43PM

This is getting to be downright ridiculous.

Koinlink · May 13, 2006 12:44PM

<< ...........Something still stinks about this post and Laura`s .........

If ebay suspects schilling then why not suspend the user and investigate ?

Why contact them and ask for all that personal imformation ?

What does that have to do withanything ??

As was said - THEY state they will never ask for such privy imfo ..

So what exactly is going on ????????? >>

THEY state they will never ask for such privy info Exactly. You'd think they would send a blanket warning to all eBayers outlining what their this new "policy" is and why
they are doing it. But I guess that would make too much sense.

RGT · May 13, 2006 12:49PM

I have two coins on eBay right now and Frank had bid on both of them. Ebay notified me that his bids were cancelled. My current high bid on one of the coins is now less than half of what it was with less than 24 hours to go. The ones they NARU aren't the only ones eBay is affecting with this type of action.

Frank, I sent you a PM.

Myqqy · May 13, 2006 12:50PM

This ebay stuff is getting really freaky- with identity theft being what it is today, I can't believe they're doing business like this....

Coxe · May 13, 2006 12:53PM

<< I have two coins on eBay right now and Frank had bid on both of them. Ebay notified me that his bids were cancelled. My current high bid on one of the coins is now less than half of what it was with less than 24 hours to go. The ones they NARU aren't the only ones eBay is affecting with this type of action.

Frank, I sent you a PM. >>

Man, that really sucks. Can someone bid on Frank's behalf to get him back in the game and not screw up your auctions?

pendragon1998 · May 13, 2006 1:16PM

It's been a while since I read the eBay user agreement, but doesn't it have one of those clauses that say you give up your right to sue them, and must use an arbitrator?

Frankly, I think making clauses like that mandatory should be illegal.

ILikeMercs · May 13, 2006 1:25PM

<< 

<< Like how in the world are you supposed to know that the person on the other end of the line is a bonafide eBay employee? >>

Caller ID.

Russ, NCNE >>

didn't I see a post by someone either here or on the OF and the joker called his friend but the caller ID said it was from some Police department?

Bochiman · May 13, 2006 1:27PM

<< 

<< 

<< Like how in the world are you supposed to know that the person on the other end of the line is a bonafide eBay employee? >>

Caller ID.

Russ, NCNE >>

didn't I see a post by someone either here or on the OF and the joker called his friend but the caller ID said it was from some Police department? >>

OF a couple of months ago I think.....I remember it too....

lsica · May 13, 2006 1:42PM

<< Can someone bid on Frank's behalf to get him back in the game and not screw up your auctions? >>

Not unless he wants to get himself and Frank into even BIGGER trouble. Bidding on an auction where YOU YOURSELF don't intend on buying what you're bidding on, especialy for the purpose of elevating bids or to draw attention to an item is shill bidding in it's purest sense.

Frankcoins · May 13, 2006 2:17PM

Another serious matter from a legal standpoint, is that while I can see most of the paypal payments that show the item
numbers and description, several people paid for coins that do not have their paypal and ebay accounts linked. Since I can't access my ebay account, I can't cross reference the item numbers or the total amounts to send people items they have paid for with their credit cards!!! Also, even though I ask people who pay by check or money order to write the item number on the payment, invariably I end up with checks with no item number, and money orders with no name or item number, and having to look through completed items to match up amounts! I can't do this either, yet the people have paid. And I am already getting emails from angry buyers wanting to know WTF is going on, since they can't PAY for stuff they got a notice that they won. And since ebay doesn't display the buyer's email address, but rather forces me to use their internal system to send email...guess what...I can;t do that either. WHAT A NIGHTMARE!

Frankcoins · May 13, 2006 2:25PM

<< 

<< Can someone bid on Frank's behalf to get him back in the game and not screw up your auctions? >>

Not unless he wants to get himself and Frank into even BIGGER trouble. Bidding on an auction where YOU YOURSELF don't intend on buying what you're bidding on, especialy for the purpose of elevating bids or to draw attention to an item is shill bidding in it's purest sense. >>

What about real world auctions where many bids are placed by agents on behalf of buyers who wish to remain
anonymous or can't view the lots in person?

I just got back from a six hour continuing education class needed to renew my auctioneers license.

Shill bids are insincere bids solely to drive up the price where the bidder has no actual intention to buy the item.

stiffy · May 13, 2006 2:27PM

Well Frank, there is always yahoo.

foodude · May 13, 2006 2:34PM

[Caller ID

Russ, you need to watch more spy movies

stiffy · May 13, 2006 3:26PM

Whether eBay can retain Franlk's fees despite cancelling his auctions presents a breach of contract issue.

(Legal analysis snipped because it isn't terribly relevent in light of ebay's shill bidding TOS which Frank agreed to by trading on ebay after they sent notice of this to him last year. Note the possible sanction: "Forfeit of eBay fees on cancelled listings" )

So, I disagree. I believe it presents a question of the enforcabilty of ebay's forfeiture rule, if anything where Frank would be plaintiff.

It might be better for Frank to avoid court, seeing as there are criminal penalties for shilling in an electronic auction. But I digress...

Ebay's shill policy:

"Shill Bidding is bidding that artificially increases an item’s price or apparent desirability, or bidding by individuals with a level of access to the seller’s item information not available to the general Community. Shill Bidding is prohibited on eBay.

Because family members, roommates and employees of sellers have a level of access to item information which is not available to the general Community, they are not permitted to bid on items offered by the seller – even if their sole intent is to purchase the item. Family members, roommates or employees may purchase items from a seller without violating this policy simply by using purchase options – such as Buy It Now – which do not involve bidding.

eBay strongly encourages sellers with employees to ensure that their employees are aware of this policy and the possible consequences of violation.

Violations of this policy may result in a range of actions, including:

Listing cancellation

Limits on account privileges

Account suspension

Forfeit of eBay fees on cancelled listings

Loss of PowerSeller status

Referral to Law Enforcement "

Not only is it against ebay's TOS but it is a felony wire fraud issue or if he sent an item by US mail that was allegedly shilled that would be a mail fraud issue.

I give the chances of any such lawsuit on Frank's behalf a zero chance of success.

Coxe · May 13, 2006 3:42PM

<< Because family members, roommates and employees of sellers have a level of access to item information which is not available to the general Community, they are not permitted to bid on items offered by the seller – even if their sole intent is to purchase the item. >>

Well, this does remove the burdon on eBay to actually prove shill bidding has occurred. However, are they speculating "family members, roommates or employees of sellers" have bid are are certain of this as a fact? Regardless of that even, law enforcement and prosecution for mail fraud would assume the burden of proving shilling or similar fraud. Rules are rules. If there was indeed a violation of this rule, whether one thinks it is fair or not,
the penalties are the fair consequence. If there was no such violation, then I would challenge eBay on it aggressively and take them to small claims court in your local jurisdiction if that would work.

Perhaps they are using the ip addresses of bidders and correlating them with sellers in their web transaction logs? That could seriously bite them in these cases. Some providers (like AOL) use a limited number of proxy gateways that service a huge and disparate user community. Many collectors also might be on a hotel LAN or WiFi at a big show and be using a common proxy. That would look like the same address, even if not the same computer. User agent would likely be the same. Cookies shouldn't work for them.

mozin · May 13, 2006 3:52PM

Anyone know of another ebay seller bounced in this fashion, besides Legend?

coinnut86 · May 13, 2006 3:58PM

<< 

<< 

<< Like how in the world are you supposed to know that the person on the other end of the line is a bonafide eBay employee? >>

Caller ID.

Russ, NCNE >>

didn't I see a post by someone either here or on the OF and the joker called his friend but the caller ID said it was from some Police department? >>

Yes, it was me... it's called spoofcard.com He did it again last night, not using the police this time.

This whole ebay thing is making me sick.

leothelyon · May 13, 2006 4:19PM

<< Whether eBay can retain Franlk's fees despite cancelling his auctions presents a breach of contract issue.

(Legal analysis snipped because it isn't terribly relevent in light of ebay's shill bidding TOS which Frank agreed to by trading on ebay after they sent notice of this to him last year. Note the possible sanction: "Forfeit of eBay fees on cancelled listings" )

So, I disagree. I believe it presents a question of the enforcabilty of ebay's forfeiture rule, if anything where Frank would be plaintiff.

It might be better for Frank to avoid court, seeing as there are criminal penalties for shilling in an electronic auction. But I digress...

Ebay's shill policy:

"Shill Bidding is bidding that artificially increases an item’s price or apparent desirability, or bidding by individuals with a level of access to the seller’s item information not available to the general Community. Shill Bidding is prohibited on eBay.

Because family members, roommates and employees of sellers have a level of access to item information which is not available to the general Community, they are not permitted to bid on items offered by the seller – even if their sole intent is to purchase the item. Family members, roommates or employees may purchase items from a seller without violating this policy simply by using purchase options – such as Buy It Now – which do not involve bidding.

eBay strongly encourages sellers with employees to ensure that their employees are aware of this policy and the possible consequences of violation.

Violations of this policy may result in a range of actions, including:

Listing cancellation

Limits on account privileges

Account suspension

Forfeit of eBay fees on cancelled listings

Loss of PowerSeller status

Referral to Law Enforcement "

Not only is it against ebay's TOS but it is a felony wire fraud issue or if he sent an item by US mail that was allegedly shilled that would be a mail fraud issue.

I give the chances of any such lawsuit on Frank's behalf a zero chance of success. >>

Anyone know of another ebay seller bounced in this fashion, besides Legend?

I know of one other that just went through what Stiffy posted about shill bidding but the instance was a case of bidding on a family member's auction. I suggested to this person that ebay may have noticed simularities in the cookies companies use if they were using the same computer. This person's account has since been reinstated!

Leo

stiffy · May 13, 2006 4:30PM

Well, this does remove the burdon on eBay to actually prove shill bidding has occurred. However, are they speculating "family members, roommates or employees of sellers" have bid are are certain of this as a fact?

Frank has been warned and even NARUed for alleged shilling before.
He has maintained (in rcc forum) that it is merely an ebay rule and not a felony, etc.

Frank thinks it is an auction rule, not fraud or anything, see post 5, 6, 7 etc.

more frank

even more

Well, you get the drift. Frank has been over and over this because he doesn't like the answer he gets over and over.

Regardless of that even, law enforcement and prosecution for mail fraud would assume the burden of proving shilling or similar fraud.

Well, generally, even civil fraud has to be proven by "clear and convincing evidence" and that is because where there is fraud, it is usually pretty obvious. Shilling is often pretty obvious when it happens. When you can prove "clear and convincing" "beyond a reasonable doubt" ain't far away. Numerous shills (caught on ebay)have been convicted in criminal court and sentenced to prison.

Rules are rules. If there was indeed a violation of this rule, whether one thinks it is fair or not,
the penalties are the fair consequence.

Frank seems to think otherwise, right Frank?

If there was no such violation, then I would challenge eBay on it aggressively and take them to small claims court in your local jurisdiction if that would work.

1. Mighty big IF there.

2. As was pointed out, as part of your agreement that allows one the privilege of trading on ebay, you must submit to arbitration.

3. They will win arbitration and Frank will pay the costs.

4. Because when you take all the stuff Frank has said in a public forum about shilling, gee those statements would be hard to get around if ebay's lawyers search google groups for
rec.collecting.coins "frank + shill"

5. They do not just take a member's word for shilling when they NARU. They have smoe facts. Frank has zero facts to back him up. (how does he prove he didn't do it?)

Perhaps they are using the ip addresses of bidders and correlating them with sellers in their web transaction logs? That could seriously bite them in these cases. Some providers (like AOL) use a limited number of proxy gateways that service a huge and disparate user community.

ebay is well aware of that issue.

Many collectors also might be on a hotel LAN or WiFi at a big show and be using a common proxy. That would look like the same address, even if not the same computer. User agent would likely be the same. Cookies shouldn't work for them.

Doesn't appear to be an issue on these facts. Read the links. This isn't about an innocent mistake. Lots of posters on this very forum know all too well of Frank and his ebay drama.

Frankcoins · May 13, 2006 4:51PM

<< Whether eBay can retain Franlk's fees despite cancelling his auctions presents a breach of contract issue.

It might be better for Frank to avoid court, seeing as there are criminal penalties for shilling in an electronic auction. But I digress... >>

NOTHING was mentioned about shill bidding. They wanted bank account numbers and any credit card numbers that I had ever
used in association with my ebay account, whether to buy items or pay ebay fees, plus faxed invoices to show the proof that I owned
the items offered.

<< Ebay's shill policy:

"Shill Bidding is bidding that artificially increases an item’s price or apparent desirability, or bidding by individuals with a level of access to the seller’s item information not available to the general Community. Shill Bidding is prohibited on eBay. >>

That's a made up definition that attempts to criminalize things such as viewing the items in person, or bidding on items from
a dealer you know by calling it "shill bidding" when is not.

<< Violations of this policy may result in a range of actions, including:

Listing cancellation

Limits on account privileges

Account suspension

Forfeit of eBay fees on cancelled listings

Loss of PowerSeller status

Referral to Law Enforcement >>

Violation of an ebay POLICY can result in referral to law enforcement???

<< Not only is it against ebay's TOS but it is a felony wire fraud issue or if he sent an item by US mail that was allegedly shilled that would be a mail fraud issue. >>

If it's sent out, it must have been paid for, therefore it's a legitimate transaction, which defines it as NOT a shill bid...

<< I give the chances of any such lawsuit on Frank's behalf a zero chance of success. >>

Methinks the recent addition of a link to "report this auction" on every listing with such selections as "item is stolen"
is being misused by troublemakers....

raycyca · May 13, 2006 4:51PM

I don't like what E-bay has been doing recently. BUT, E-bay does have the right to suspend people if they don't comply with the rules. Frank was NOT NARUED for shilling, even if he did(I didn't read all about his past). He was NARUED for the EXACT same reason as Laura. Failure to provide requested documentation! Granted, I don't think that notification via phone constitues an enforcable right of notification. I do beleive if notified via E-mail that this DOES meet the requirements of burden of proof of notification. You can look up the links, etc to provide proof it was sent by E-bay.

They are wrong and the sellers are not the only ones getting hurt. The buyers of the coins get hurt by not being able to get the coins they want. The buyers that have paid are also being hurt. How many times has a buyer paid for an item, didn't provide all needed info in case the seller does get NARUED? In a way, it's their fault they don't get an item because they need to make sure the seller knows what item to send to them!

I know of another E-bayer that was NARUED recently. This person used a family member's ID to bid on their own item. They were both NARUED. The seller contacted E-bay and told them the bidder(family member) bid on the item to get the seller back. They stated they bid so the seller would get NARUED because they thought the seller was sleeping with the brother-in-law. The seller thought E-bay would feel sorry for them and re-instate them. WRONG!!! In fact, they re-instated the bidder, and still have the seller NARUED!!!!! Explain that one! LOL Ray

Frankcoins · May 13, 2006 5:13PM

What a laugh...One of the FIVE YEAR OLD quotes that "stiffy" digs up has Eric Tillery telling me

"part of your problem here is that you blindly defended (name removed) simply because he was a homosexual."

BECOKA · May 13, 2006 5:14PM

<< 

<< Granted, but can anyone that has ever been called by eBay say that eBay shows up on caller ID? >>

Yes, they do. So does PayPal.

Russ, NCNE >>

I get calls from e-bay's sales promotions all of the time. The problem is I do not have a land line so they call my cell phone and I am not aware of a way to get caller ID.

Ebay strange phone call, then all my auctions cancelled

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The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

My Jefferson Nickel Collection

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