Do you buy from a seller that has no return policy on TPG coins?

stev32k · May 8, 2006 10:00AM

I don't anymore. I was very disappointed in a PCGS graded AU58 trade dollar, and an ANACS graded MS65 DMPL Morgan. Both coins were mis-graded in my opinion and I paid a premium because of the plastic. Had I seen them in hand I would not have brought them at any price. In both cases the auction clearly stated the seller did not accept returns of TPG graded coins. So I didn't complain, but I did sell both at a loss.

That is the end of my buying ANY coin in ANY holder that does not have a return policy. I see several dealers stating they do not run an approval service - they run an auction. I believe that is nothing more than a cop out. Any coin purchased with only a photograph to go by should be sold "on approval".

Russ · May 8, 2006 10:21AM

<< I see several dealers stating they do not run an approval service - they run an auction. I believe that is nothing more than a cop out. >>

Tell that to any of the real auction venues and see how far you get.

Russ, NCNE

fc · May 8, 2006 10:23AM

i feel returns on a slabbed coin is the easiest of all to accept back
as long as the slab and coin is undamaged. price of doing business
i guess.

KoinDawg · May 8, 2006 10:30AM

Yes, I buy when no returns are accepted. But I always check feedback scores. There's a guy that has his own grading service on ebay (ANI) and sometimes he has PCGS and NGC slabs for sale. I avoid him like the plague. I wish ebay had a way to block ME from bidding accidently on particular seller's auctions. Most of the time I don't bid at all and just snipe. If it's early in the auction, I'll bid a cent over minimum bid knowing I have plenty of time to change my mind before close of auction and there's no way any coin that has been slabbed is going for less than a buck.

Have any of you actually SOLD a PCGS, NGC, or ANACS slabbed coin for less than one dollar? What's the lowest amount you've ever received for a "top 3" slabbed coin?

fc · May 8, 2006 10:33AM

i sold my first coin last week. i made 5%. on a mistake coin.
i think i may take a loss on my next. i goofed and overpaid.
we shall see.

so the coin went for 190 ish.

majorbigtime · May 8, 2006 10:34AM

No way!!

Jcarney · May 8, 2006 10:43AM

<< I believe that is nothing more than a cop out. Any coin purchased with only a photograph to go by should be sold "on approval". >>

I just bid accordingly. Bidding on a no-return online auction is simply bidding sight unseen.

stev32k · May 8, 2006 10:45AM

<<Tell that to any of the real auction venues and see how far you get.>>

Dang Russ, even heritage has a three day return policy for internet sales. (I believe you also have a return policy on TPG coins)

Russ · May 8, 2006 10:54AM

<< <<Tell that to any of the real auction venues and see how far you get.>>

Dang Russ, even heritage has a three day return policy for internet sales. >>

Aside from the fact that it's a fairly new policy with them they charge 5% with a $10 minimum for the privilege. There is nothing more annoying than running a 99c no reserve auction with accurate images and an honest description, then have some tire kicker want to return the coin for no legitimate reason.

Russ, NCNE

TwoSides2aCoin · May 8, 2006 11:05AM

I once had a coin, or should I say, it once had me ....

Oh wait, that is a beatle's song.... about a girl.

Anyway, I once had a coin that was returned to me because the buyer didn't like it on the obverse. It was an 1885 CC Morgan in the GSA holder for crying outloud and it had the most rainbowish toning ( you guys know how I hate that , so I had to part with it). The worst part was the listing fees cost me about twenty bucks as did the pay pal fees at auction end. When the buyer requested a return, I agreed to accept it providing he pay these fees. He disagreed.... but

after a little more space and time

He said : FINE:.... and the $617 he paid me was returned in the form of $577.
He was happy , I was happy. He wrote me and said, "let's forget feedback"... I wrote back and said : "Heavens no, you and I both did something that few people are willing to do and that is to communicate and to compromise".... It works for me

we are both living happily ever after.

majorbigtime · May 8, 2006 11:06AM

<< 

<< <<Tell that to any of the real auction venues and see how far you get.>>

Dang Russ, even heritage has a three day return policy for internet sales. >>

Aside from the fact that it's a fairly new policy with them they charge 5% with a $10 minimum for the privilege. There is nothing more annoying than running a 99c no reserve auction with accurate images and an honest description, then have some tire kicker want to return the coin for no legitimate reason.

Russ, NCNE >>

I've returned my share--it's no fun when you have to absorb round trip insurance and shipping, believe me.

dorancoins · May 8, 2006 11:09AM

If the dealer or auction company is a member of the ANA, the return policy is 14 days, and they are obligated as an ANA member to give one a refund. Go to the ANA website and find "Dealer Code of Ethics" - should be in there.

Myqqy · May 8, 2006 11:11AM

Sometimes I'll buy a lower priced item if I trust the images enough- but I won't buy anything without a return policy if it's more than a $100.....

Russ · May 8, 2006 11:11AM

<< If the dealer or auction company is a member of the ANA, the return policy is 14 days, and they are obligated as an ANA member to give one a refund. >>

Not for auctions.

Russ, NCNE

TwoSides2aCoin · May 8, 2006 11:13AM

<< If the dealer or auction company is a member of the ANA, the return policy is 14 days, and they are obligated as an ANA member to give one a refund. Go to the ANA website and find "Dealer Code of Ethics" - should be in there. >>

Does a wannabe count as a dealer if he is an ANA member

? lol

TwoSides2aCoin · May 8, 2006 11:27AM

Scenario TWO :

I once just had to get that 1972 DDO Lincoln cent. I search on ebay when I get in them kinda moods where I just gotta have something. Specifically coins. It's just a numismatic thing,... you guys all got that compelling thing driving you so I don't have to explain.

So , I find this beautiful red PCGS MS66 "STRONGLY DOUBLED VARIETY" for sale on ebay auctions.
Oooooooooooooh, I won it for 640.... I thought that was awesome..... Except I was so enthralled by the STRONGLY DOUBLED VARIETY in the sellers auction that I didn't pay attention to the "NO RETURNS ON SLABBED COINS" in the fine print.....

So the coin shows up : It is just as pictured... coin #2953.... Hmmmm.... something wasn't right. Here is a PCGS MS66RD DDO from 1972 that is NOT the strongly doubled variety, and a dealer who would use such verbage will get his , some day ! But, in the meantime, after lots of communication and compromise, I got coin #2950 from him... which is the STRONGLY DOUBLED VARIETY.

Only difference between my first story with the Morgan and this one is : I never left this seller feedback and he never left me any. But...

I'm still living happily ever after

coinbuf · May 8, 2006 11:30AM

Yes I will, and just did this week, but I bid much less and only if I really like the item or think its a possible rip.

Chris

Fairlaneman · May 8, 2006 11:31AM

I could care less if a seller has a return policy. In the 5 years on Ebay I really only wanted to return two purchases. One guy had a bogus return policy and sent my package back and the other guy had hidden stipulations that made his policy bogus also.

Now I look closely at feedback, pictures and price. If a bid is placed that wins I own the coin no matter what and thats why a Return Policy is not even considered.

If you want to kick tires go see your friendly used car salesman and not your friendly Ebay coin seller.

Ken

rainbowroosie · May 8, 2006 11:42AM

no

50cents · May 8, 2006 11:44AM

If all the sellers took great pictures I could care less if they had a return policy but since they don't, I won't buy without one.

numonebuyer · May 8, 2006 11:49AM

As an ANA member, I have a return policy on all coins that I sell. I don't buy from anyone that does not have a return policy.

jdimmick · May 8, 2006 11:51AM

There is no return policy for signature auctions period. Only if something is determined to be not genuine do you have any recourse.

stev32k · May 8, 2006 12:01PM

<<Aside from the fact that it's a fairly new policy with them they charge 5% with a $10 minimum for the privilege. There is nothing more annoying than running a 99c no reserve auction with accurate images and an honest description, then have some tire kicker want to return the coin for no legitimate reason.>>

But you still didn't answer the question - do you buy from a seller that has a no return policy on TPG coins. (might be careful here - you have posted a lot about this subject)

I've also had coins returned for what I considered ill-legitimate reasons, but the person returning them thought they were perfectly legitimate - now who's right?

RYK · May 8, 2006 12:09PM

I do not buy expensive coins sight-unseen, unless a trusted expert has reviewed the coin with me and answered all questions. Period.

SamByrd · May 8, 2006 12:38PM

it is very rare for me to bid on an auction without a 7 day return policy, I have a few times sniped a good deal on no returns and have been fortunate.

RedTiger · May 8, 2006 1:01PM

I will, however, I probably would not on the coins in the original post, AU58 Trade dollar, 65 DMPL Morgan. Each seller is free to set their policies. Bid accordingly.

For newbies reading this, remember that the auctions are sometimes (not always) used as a dumping ground for low end for the grade coins. Ebay, Heritage, Teletrade are all sometimes used as a place to sell coins that no collector wants to buy sight seen. Often times they get sold to unsuspecting newbies who think they are getting a bargain. Not every MS65 is created equal, a nice one will sometimes sell for 2x what a low end one sells for at a sight seen auction.

lloydmincy · May 8, 2006 1:16PM

<<Tell that to any of the real auction venues and see how far you get.>>

You get far depending on the amount of business you do with them.

rec78 · May 8, 2006 1:35PM

I believe that is nothing more than a cop out

Some sellers actually go around to shows and knowingly buy coins that are overgraded in slabs from honest dealer who dont want them in their inventory and sell them for less than they would a properly graded coin. Then they sell them on eBay with that policy-Totally Ridiculous-. Confident sellers do not have this problem and will accept returns because they know that there will be a minimum number of returns. Properly graded coins(and problem free) will usually not be returned. Bob

Bochiman · May 8, 2006 1:38PM

<< 

<< <<Tell that to any of the real auction venues and see how far you get.>>

Dang Russ, even heritage has a three day return policy for internet sales. >>

Aside from the fact that it's a fairly new policy with them they charge 5% with a $10 minimum for the privilege. There is nothing more annoying than running a 99c no reserve auction with accurate images and an honest description, then have some tire kicker want to return the coin for no legitimate reason.

Russ, NCNE >>

Russ, the key in what you say is accurate images and an honest description.
Many of them aren't accurate (even if they are nice pics, they are slanted, don't show hairlines, don't show spots, have shadows that hide things, etc) or don't give much of a description "dcam from PCGS".

With your stipulation, yes, I would buy in that case. In most cases, no. Or, like said, treat it like sight unseen and hope I get lucky, but willing to pay a low price for a potential dog.

BAJJERFAN · May 8, 2006 2:20PM

is this auction acceptable?
I would always consider returns of course for valid reasons but I also try to discourage frivolous returns.

Conder101 · May 9, 2006 3:09AM

But, but, but, the whole idea of Third Party Grading was so you could buy sight unseen! You know, buy it and it's yours, no returns. That was the WHOLE IDEA behind slabbing!

Ha ha ha ha ha ha

BlindedByEgo · May 9, 2006 3:38AM

If the return policy is stated clearly, the market will discount for the return policy appropriately.

I'm glad that you exercise your right not to bid based upon the individual sellers policies.

ziggy29 · May 9, 2006 3:40AM

On very rare occasions, I will if I really want the coin and I think the image gives a good indicator of the coin.

Even then, I tend to low-ball my offer if I don't have a return privilege. I consider the discount to be a form of "self-insurance" against the occasional disappointment.

agentjim007 · May 9, 2006 3:43AM

I listed some slabbed gold with no return.If I offer a return and gold tubes I get the coins back, if it goes to the moon buyer calls me a chump for selling it cheap.

morgannut2 · May 9, 2006 3:46AM

Russ has a pretty good point as far as people wasting time to have an auction, then the winnier thinking it's some approval service. I will buy without a return. But there's a reason for a "SIGHT-SEEN" price, and a lower "SIGHT-UNSEEN" price. Peole get carried away and bid at the higher "SIGHT SEEN" value--no wonder they're unhappy.

flaminio · May 9, 2006 3:49AM

I don't have a problem with a "no return" policy. If I get a coin I don't like, I just resell it. It's easier for me that way than to try to return a coin.

Russ · May 9, 2006 3:53AM

<< But you still didn't answer the question - do you buy from a seller that has a no return policy on TPG coins. >>

When I buy in an auction, I don't expect or need a return policy so yes, I do.

Russ, NCNE

Elcontador · May 9, 2006 4:28AM

I do not buy expensive coins sight-unseen, unless a trusted expert has reviewed the coin with me and answered all questions. Period. Bingo!

It used to be that the major auction houses only forfeited return privileges for slabbed coins when the buyer had actually viewed them. Recently they changed their policy & Russ is 100% correct about this.

As a practical matter, just to be good businesspeople, if you are doing a significant volume of auction business with one of the majors and very infrequently wish to return a coin, I imagine your request will be honored quickly and quietly.

MikeKing · May 9, 2006 4:51AM

If I sell on ebay, I usually give a no questions asked return policy but state I'll deduct ebay and paypal fees, and I feel guilty about that. But I'm not a coin dealer and rarely sell coins, and when I do, I rarely make any profit at all, so I just cannot afford to pay fees and take a return on it. However, I think it's pinnacle or some other coin dealership that state they'll charge a restocking fee. I think that's bad business, cmon, this IS their business, selling coins. They shouldn't even charge postage if you ask me. All of them.

It's like going to a steak house and paying $40.00 for a steak and they don't even give you a lousy potato.

edited to add: and then expect me to go back???

All it requires is common hospitality, a commodity much rarer than any of the coins they sell.

Do you buy from a seller that has no return policy on TPG coins?

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