This is, without a doubt, the most questionable 65RD IH of all time

shylock · April 22, 2006 10:07AM

NGC had its dark ages of grading IHs. This coin is the ultimate example.

If someone covered the label on this coin would you know what the date is?

bhartman35 · April 22, 2006 10:10AM

I enlarged the coin 300% in Photoshop and I still couldn't tell what the date was!

shylock · April 22, 2006 10:34AM

In case you think I altered this coin, as I'm inclined to do on my website, here's the link to Heritage.

You cant make this stuff up.

Barndog · April 22, 2006 10:38AM

I could tell with the zoom view on Heritage, but I agree with your premise that this is not a 65RD

robertpr · April 22, 2006 10:44AM

Agreed, the date is visable but it's probably not a 65RD (disclaimer: I have not viewed said coin in person), it may have been at the time of grading. I think the prints and other darkspots may have developed after slabbing.
Here's the Heritage Zoom photo:

shylock · April 22, 2006 10:48AM

When you have to Zoom into a coin to determine the date I'm inclined to believe MS65 is out of the question.

roadrunner · April 22, 2006 10:51AM

I guessed 1864 correctly...........without looking. I've seen old holder PCGS reds as well that have turned spotty and were no longer reds.

roadrunner

goose3 · April 22, 2006 10:51AM

do you think it's been cleaned though Paul?

tjkillian · April 22, 2006 10:54AM

Although I know you have seen many, many MS-65 Red indian cents, I've seen even worse in MS-65 Red holders. Just check out Heritage auctions on eBay, and there you will see some pathetic coins being sold as MS-64 Red and MS-65 Red.

That is one sad coin.

Tom

RedneckHB · April 22, 2006 10:56AM

I've seen old holder PCGS reds as well that have turned spotty and were no longer reds.

Especially in OGH's.

fc · April 22, 2006 11:01AM

i think collecting IHCs is one of the main top 10 series that
has more pitfalls then others.

way too many IHs that people dislike here, i really did not
see anything wrong with them. doh

shylock · April 22, 2006 11:08AM

Tom - I've seen horribly graded IH's but none graded 65RD where the date was illegible.

This is NGC at their worst. NGC hit rock bottom with their IH grading in the 1990's and
they may never regain fair market value due to this era.

IH collectors understand this.

Myqqy · April 22, 2006 11:10AM

My first thought was that it must have turned in the holder........

kryptonitecomics · April 22, 2006 11:44AM

<< <i>My first thought was that it must have turned in the holder........

>>

Mine too...old NGC no line fatty with nothing to seperate the paper lable from the coin. I know that Morgans are famous for picking up blue and gold rim toning due to long term storage in these old holder so I would think that it would certainly be possible for it to affect copper. As for the date....I have my doubts that in hand the date would still be difficult to read.....looks like the lighting and possible angle etc is effecting the way we view the date.

bhartman35 · April 22, 2006 11:48AM

I've got a novice question about the RD designation:

RD stands for "Red", doesn't it? Does anyone see any redness in that coin? It looks more golden to me....

fc · April 22, 2006 11:53AM

i will also bite with a novice question.
why is the word bronze on the label with RD?

tjkillian · April 22, 2006 12:17PM

The government started making bronze cents in 1864 and continued with basically the same alloy until 1962. Bronze comes in different colors, but should look like a new copper cent that we all know and love. They are called "red" when they are 95% red (5% or less brown). The color can mellow a tad and still be called red. Red means copper color, not red as in "fire engine red".

Tom

bhartman35 · April 22, 2006 12:19PM

Hi, Tom.

Thanks for the explanation. When I read "red", I was expecting something more along the lines of a pre-1982 cent, which is why I got confused.

Lakesammman · April 22, 2006 12:21PM

That is pretty pathetic. In general, NGC IHC's can't hold their own with PCGS same-grade coins but this takes the cake.

rainbowroosie · April 22, 2006 12:23PM

That is a true pig and a perfect example of why you should always buy sight seen....I too believe the coin turned in the holder -- those fat boy holders darkened several of my coins - however, I wonder whose fingerprint is smeared on the OBVERSE?? Lets match it against known NGC graders....

This is, without a doubt, the most questionable 65RD IH of all time

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