What would your next step be (Lost ASE's in the mail)?

nederveit · April 19, 2006 11:13AM

In January I ordered a roll of ASE's from a well-known person on the boards. The seller shipped the roll
(1.25 pounds) in an priority envelope on January 20th, the 8.5x11 type meant for sending papers. Of course
this wasn't strong enough to hold the roll, so they were 'lost' at the PO. Not a huge deal, I shipped the seller
a letter explaining the problem, and they filed the claim at the PO on 1/27.

I PM'd the seller on 3/15, since it had been about 7 weeks (I have no evidence of loss BTW). Be patient they said.

Here it is 4/15. Now, not to mention that the roll would be worth significantly more today, what would you do as the
seller in this case? Basically I am out the original $228, not to mention the appreciation. As a dealer, would you have
shipped me a new roll, and then taken the hit waiting on the PO to payoff? Or now that it has been almost 3 months,
would you feel any obligation, or do I just keep on waiting?

I look forward to your opinions!

Russ · April 19, 2006 11:16AM

The seller should pony up the refund or another roll. Their inadequate packaging caused the problem.

Russ, NCNE

ss350camaro · April 19, 2006 11:18AM

<< The seller should pony up the refund or another roll. Their inadequate packaging caused the problem.

Russ, NCNE >>

word !

BowTieCoins2 · April 19, 2006 11:19AM

Refund and a bonus for your trouble/wait, I would think.

Good luck!

braddick · April 19, 2006 11:22AM

You're due a $228.00 refund today. The seller shouldn't make you wait like this.

I don't believe you're due more than what you paid for the same reason had the roll decreased in value over the last three months you wouldn't allow a refund of anything less than your $228.00 for the seller.

bhartman35 · April 19, 2006 11:25AM

You're due a refund of what you paid, but not what the value would be today.

BAJJERFAN · April 19, 2006 11:29AM

You got a refund or a replacement coming. I doubt the U.S.P.S. will even honor a claim if it was packaged as you say it was.

Gator5220 · April 19, 2006 11:31AM

<< You're due a refund of what you paid, but not what the value would be today. >>

kiyote · April 19, 2006 11:33AM

<< The seller should pony up the refund or another roll. Their inadequate packaging caused the problem.

Russ, NCNE >>

Objection. The price of the roll has flucutated since the purchase; it's not up to the seller to make up the difference.
Overruled! A roll of silver eagles was purchased; a roll of silver eagles should be delivered!
Your honor, what if the price of silver had went the other way? Do you really think the buyer would be happy with a roll of replacement eagles worth $140 if he paid $228?
Sustained. This court feels that due to the nature of the commodities market, which fluctuates greatly, the seller is due his original $228.00 back.

BigD5 · April 19, 2006 11:37AM

Regardless of how it was sent, the claim should have been settled by now via the USPS.

It's been 2.5 months since the claim was filed, is that correct?

I've never had a claim go longer than 7 weeks, and typically, 4 weeks is the norm for me, on lost packages.

BAJJERFAN · April 19, 2006 11:42AM

I bet the claim was denied and the seller is jackin him around.

nederveit · April 19, 2006 11:43AM

Thanks, I agree that I am not due more than I what I paid...but should
I have gotten the roll regardless of the loss? So part of the hypothetical
would be, what would you have done if you sent a customer an item in the
mail (something commodity like - like a roll of ASE's), and it was lost? Give
them a replacement, or make them wait the typical 4-7 weeks to get paid?

Yes, Darin, the claim was filed (as told to me by seller, again I have no evidence
of any of this transaction) on 1/27/06, 12 weeks ago.

Russ · April 19, 2006 11:49AM

<< This court feels that due to the nature of the commodities market, which fluctuates greatly, the seller is due his original $228.00 back. >>

Normally I would agree. However, in this case the problem was caused by the shipper. Thus, I think he is responsible to provide a roll if that's what the buyer desires.

Russ, NCNE

DESERTRODENT · April 19, 2006 11:50AM

maybe as some members think you should check the pawnshop.

cullenbryant · April 19, 2006 11:58AM

it's the first roll i've ever received in an envelope..........

poor packaging choice. i would think the postal insurance would cover it though, since they
accepted the package?

FatMan · April 19, 2006 12:05PM

I'm a bit confused. Did you receive the empty envelope? When you received the envelope did you note the package was empty before signing for it? I assumed you had to sign if it was insured. Did you sign the claim form before the seller submitted the claim. I'm pretty sure you can't file a claim unless the recipient signs the form affirming they did not receive the package, or in your case the contents.

We definitely need more information here.

jpumper · April 19, 2006 12:09PM

kiyote---"bravo" well stated and well worth sustainable objections in an ever fluctuating bullion market. One can only "fairly" receive the dollar amount he paid, within a reasonably time period. It is just and I don't believe the buyer would want to receive the "goods" if the price decreased, which is part of the original risk he gambled. Return the original $ and move on. BUT, if the goods are found, he'll get them as well AND not a refund if the seller so elects. Too bad though, the silver market has been spittin' fire of late.
arrrrgh---what the hell is fair though when frivolous lawsuits run eagerly, rampantly, and often.

robertpr · April 19, 2006 12:14PM

Please name the seller. I wouldn't want to purchase anything from someone who would ship a roll of ASE's in an envelope. Nor would I want to deal with someone who wouldn't make you whole immediately. And I especially wouldn't want to purchase anything from someone who would and has done both.

nederveit · April 19, 2006 12:30PM

I'm not trying to "out" the seller, I am hopeful they've learned a lesson as well. Let's just
say it's a well-known name on the boards.

When I arrived at the PO, I signed the slip before getting the package handed to me.
Once they handed the package to me, I never even moved since I was expecting something
heavy and got an empty envelope. I immediately stated that this was not what I had
expected, and the envelope was taped and (USPS) stamped as damaged. They said I
would have to file a claim, etc. Then I e-mailed the seller what had happened. The seller
asked me to send them a letter and the damaged envelope, which I did immediately.

I have not contacted the seller since 3/15, and was seeking your opinions (thanks) as to
what you might do in that situation (as the seller). Since it has been 12 weeks, I also
wondered what I should ask for at this point, since obviously something is awry.

Bochiman · April 19, 2006 1:04PM

<< maybe as some members think you should check the pawnshop. >>

Sour grapes???

The "right" thing to do, regardless of increase or decrease, since SAEs are a commodity, would be to replace with the same item purchases.
If I had bought them for $228 and they went down to $140 (after being lost), I would still accept the new roll (even if the price were $140) since $228 was the going rate when I would have purchased them.

The shipping/packaging is the main reason that I didn't do a green box buy (really thought about it for a few weeks) to sell to members and ebayers.
Turns out, buying the green box, and holding, would have been a hell of an investment

BAJJERFAN · April 19, 2006 1:48PM

<< If I had bought them for $228 and they went down to $140 (after being lost), I would still accept the new roll (even if the price were $140) since $228 was the going rate when I would have purchased them. >>

If he sent me a replacement roll WITHOUT asking me if I wanted them of course I would accept them since that is what I ordered. If offered a choice only a fool would take the $140 coins instead of the $228 back.

p8nt · April 19, 2006 1:53PM

<< Please name the seller. I wouldn't want to purchase anything from someone who would ship a roll of ASE's in an envelope. Nor would I want to deal with someone who wouldn't make you whole immediately. And I especially wouldn't want to purchase anything from someone who would and has done both. >>

How many people were selling rolls of ASE's on the BST? That should narrow your list down. I have a feeling I know who it is, but I do not want to say anything that I dont know for sure.

RNCHSN · April 20, 2006 1:48PM

I would like to thank Scott for PMing me a link to this thread as I only rarely surf this forum, and hadn't seen this thread.

I would also like to point out that, as Ben pointed out, most of you probably know that I am the seller in question.

more to come in a few minutes.....

relayer · April 20, 2006 1:56PM

<< more to come in a few minutes..... >>

OK, I'll get the popcorn

MikeInFL · April 20, 2006 2:40PM

Seeing who the seller is makes me feel that the situation will be remedied in short order...Mike

RNCHSN · April 20, 2006 2:46PM

When I volunteered to buy the "green monster" 2006 SAE box this year because the board member who did it last year had too many other items on his plate, I asked him how he handled it last year, so as to avoid any problems he ran into, and meet the same quality standards he had set for the prior year.

One of his suggestions was to use "flat rate mailers" to help keep the shipping costs down. I figured that if it worked well for him, it would work well for me too.

It didn't work well this time! My mistake! It'll never happen again! (This is not an attempt to try transfer blame. I'll take full credit for my mistake. This is simply background information.)

The $228 per roll included the shipping insurance. The purpose of the insurance is to protect the buyer (and seller) from "loss or damage in shipping." 2 of the 17 packages had this problem. I did the leg work and filed the claims. To save time, both claims were to be paid to the people whose rolls were lost.

The reason I made the claim payable to Scott was that, at the time I didn't have any rolls to send him. I had been putting off buying additional rolls in the fruitless hope that silver prices would drop again.

Replacing the rolls would be at a loss to myself as the box sold out (yes, even the rolls that I had planned to reserve for myself) and subsequent rolls have been purchased at a higher cost.

The other claim was paid in 1 month's time.

(The claim that is the topic of this thread was filed 1/27/06 and I will mail Scott copies of the paperwork if he so desires..... this should address desertrodent's comment)

I haven't heard from Scott since 3/15 which was almost 7 weeks from the date of filing the insurance claim. At the time I was shocked to find out the claim hadn't been paid and suggested waiting a bit more since the USPS isn't well known for speed.

I have all the paperwork here on my desk and will look further into the matter tomorrow morning when I go to the post office. I will post another message when I have more data.

Many of you know me and/or have dealt with me in the past. You know I will make it right with Scott, one way or another!

RNCHSN · April 20, 2006 2:48PM

OK now.....Who has the popcorn.... I'm hungry!

bgman · April 21, 2006 12:16AM

I AM NOT TRYING TO STIR THE POT WITH THIS POST!!!

I handled the swap last year, and I had no problems at all. I told Ron I used flat rate boxes. I also used foam padding to secure the roll, or rolls, in each box. This was one of the reasons I couldn't handle the swap again this year. I spent many hours packaging the coins and just had too many things going on at the time. I spent about 15 minutes per package to make sure I would have no problems, and I had no problems at all. I guess I should have explained a little better exactly how I packaged the coins. I am sorry Ron has had all of these problems. He was just trying to keep the group buy going, and had quite a few headaches along the way.

Randy

RNCHSN · April 21, 2006 12:20AM

Like I said, my mistake. I was grateful for Randy's advice.

We all make them, and hopefully we learn from them.

I'll be heading for the post office in a little while an hope to have more information shortly.

RNCHSN · April 21, 2006 6:20AM

I've been trying to reply here for an hour now.....

RNCHSN · April 21, 2006 6:30AM

see next post.

RNCHSN · April 21, 2006 6:33AM

This is a modified version of the PM I just sent to Scott. Reference and phone numbers were deleted in this version. Scott has my phone numbers if he has any need to call and discuss the issue.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I went to the local post office where I filed the claim. They had no additional information other than what I had provided them. ie..... the St. Louis office never sent anything to confirm/deny the claim.

I then spent an hour or so playing automated telephone answering system crash-test-dummy! At which point I had circled the system enough times that the computer got confused and forwarded me to a real live person.

I then had a nice conversation with a woman named Marsha who researched the problem and found that the claim had been flagged incorrectly as "paid locally," despite being filled out to have payment sent directly to Scott.

She took my phone number (and Scott's address) and told me that I may or may-not be called regarding this matter. If I don't hear anything from them regarding this matter by Wednesday, I should call back and reference the number she gave me (Scott has it too) to find out what the status of the claim is.

The insurance card # was PM'd to Scott. When I tried to research this number, the system crashed and told me to call back later. Probably because no action what so ever had been taken on the matter so far.

fc · April 21, 2006 6:35AM

it appears all will be made well. too bad about the fluctuation
of silver in the meantime.

mfcobra · April 21, 2006 7:26AM

I can't belive someone, let alone a freakin "Coin Dealer" would mail a roll of SAE's in a flimsy envelope!

You MUST have been smokin'; some whacky tobacky that day! You are lucky he has the patience of Jobe, because you can bet your a$$ if you had shipped my roll in an envelope & it was lost because of YOUR stupidity I would DEMAND an IMMEDIATE replacement roll/ refund!!

bhartman35 · April 21, 2006 7:39AM

As long as the buyer is compensated, there's no harm, no foul. Not that you need to be told this at this point, but next time, go for the box!

FatMan · April 21, 2006 7:55AM

I do not know Ron. But I think he has presented himself in a positive light here. First of all, it is important to remember that this was a non-profit sale. I did not participate in the forum group purchase of SAEs this year but I did last year. I know that his time and efforts likely far exceeded what thanks and appreciation he received. That is usually the case with volunteer work. This is an unfortunate situation where he followed incomplete instructions provided by the previous organizer. I know nederveit is not happy and somewhat rightfully so. But this is a unique transaction and one that could easily drop off the radar screen as it was not the normal day in day out business transaction. I just didn't want this to go any further without the fact that this was a volunteer effort on behalf of many board members being noted.

09sVDB · April 21, 2006 8:08AM

your due a full refund.

nederveit · April 21, 2006 12:15PM

Thanks for all the comments, and Ron, thanks for the time spent today with the PO,
as it sounded like a real PIA.

I wasn't trying to out Ron, and I was trying to have the 'patience of Jobe' because I
realized that this was like looking a gift-horse in the mouth, so to speak. No good deed
goes unpunished, I'm sure there are several more cliches that could apply here.

My original question was more along the lines of what would you have done as the seller
in such a situation? And if you were contacted after 7 weeks of no reimbursement, what
steps would you have taken then?

Sure, it sucks for both of us right now, Ron spending the time, me out the silver or bucks.
And Ron did apologize, but never offered the story I've read now that I've made the post.
I was a bit suspect, because I bought a roll from bgman last year, and he could have
packed an egg in that box and it would have survived, it was packaged so superbly.
Thanks bgman for posting that information.

I'm sure it will all work out in the end, and I knew Ron had a good rep here on the boards.
If it helps, I'd be happy to do the work next year for ASE 'rollout', can I do that as a non-dealer?

Craton · April 21, 2006 12:22PM

<< 

<< The seller should pony up the refund or another roll. Their inadequate packaging caused the problem.

Russ, NCNE >>

word ! >>

True DAT boyyyy!

RNCHSN · April 26, 2006 2:47AM

Insurance claim paid 4/25. The "check is in the mail" per the USPS. He should have it in another day or so.

My public apology goes out to Scott for not taking this route the last time he contacted me.

PS

It's been a learning experience.

RNCHSN · April 26, 2006 1:19PM

Scott just PM'd me that he got the check today.

I'm sorry to all of you who participated for the mistake I made in shipping this way.

I'd still be willing to make the purchase next year (shipped in boxes), unless you'd all rather have someone else handle it.

Thanks very much to everyone for your patience and understanding.

BECOKA · April 26, 2006 1:30PM

I had this exact situation minus the poor packaging. I sent the buyer a new item and never got money from the post office for a $50 item. (They lost the paper work after 3 months of saying please wait). I know people frown on sellers who build up thier own pool for insurance but the post office is a pain to deal with.

cullenbryant · April 26, 2006 2:13PM

Ron,
I would buy another roll next year from you in a minute. Thanks again for doing the purchase this year.

ibzman350 · April 26, 2006 9:39PM

<< Please name the seller. I wouldn't want to purchase anything from someone who would ship a roll of ASE's in an envelope. Nor would I want to deal with someone who wouldn't make you whole immediately. And I especially wouldn't want to purchase anything from someone who would and has done both. >>

Me thinks I know who the seller may be, this is my correspondence after getting 2 rolls mail in an priority envelope, form a fellow board member.

And yes 4 month is too long and a new roll of ASE's is in order.

Date Posted: Jan/17/2006 7:02 PM
XXXXXXXX,

the rolls arrived safe and sound, barely, the package would not have made it another 100 miles. Had a few tears in the envelope.

Anyhoo, thank you very much.

Herb

Edited to add.........Dang , I should have read the whole thread instead of only the first page

Ron, I'll be buying 4 rolls next year..........................if you're selling.

Herb

beartracks42 · April 26, 2006 11:33PM

I do not know Ron. But I think he has presented himself in a positive light here. First of all, it is important to remember that this was a non-profit sale. I did not participate in the forum group purchase of SAEs this year but I did last year. I know that his time and efforts likely far exceeded what thanks and appreciation he received. That is usually the case with volunteer work. This is an unfortunate situation where he followed incomplete instructions provided by the previous organizer. I know nederveit is not happy and somewhat rightfully so. But this is a unique transaction and one that could easily drop off the radar screen as it was not the normal day in day out business transaction. I just didn't want this to go any further without the fact that this was a volunteer effort on behalf of many board members being noted.

What would your next step be (Lost ASE's in the mail)?

Comments

Leave a Comment