What sad day, another gem Seated Quarter is ruined for greed
partagas
Posts: 2,056 ✭✭✭
This coin an 1866 Seated Quarter hammered at Goldbergs $5,000 plus 20% juice. A very nice coin, with a good appeal to it. I bid and didn't win it. What makes this coin so nice, is the fully struck reverse shield. The sheild on most 1866 quarters is weakly struck on the top left corner portion.
This gem, with original eye appeal was dipped and washed out. Now just an unnatural widget with a bigger price tag. No thanks.
When you blow them up, the die polish lines match. I am almost 100% certain this is the same coin.
Goldberg original sale
David Lawrence Widget
This gem, with original eye appeal was dipped and washed out. Now just an unnatural widget with a bigger price tag. No thanks.
When you blow them up, the die polish lines match. I am almost 100% certain this is the same coin.
Goldberg original sale
David Lawrence Widget
If I say something in the woods, and my wife isn't around. Am I still wrong?
0
Comments
If it's the same coin the owner made a huge mistake, and now the die polish lines are so obvious in that picture they detract from the overall look of the coin.
That's just bad.
-Daniel
-Aristotle
Dum loquimur fugerit invida aetas. Carpe diem quam minimum credula postero.
-Horace
The F on the reverse of the DLRC specimen is not fully struck.
I believe they are different coins.
Die polish, since it is a die characteristic, will likely be the same on multiple coins.
https://www.civitasgalleries.com
New coins listed monthly!
Josh Moran
CIVITAS Galleries, Ltd.
That second coin is simply terrible and as time goes by I hate coins that look like that more and more.....
<< <i>NCS Rules!
How do you know it was NCS? DLC might have just dipped it and sent it off!
<< <i>The F in "OF" on the reverse of the Goldberg specimen is fully struck.
The F on the reverse of the DLRC specimen is not fully struck.
I believe they are different coins.
Die polish, since it is a die characteristic, will likely be the same on multiple coins.
>>
Thats my take on it anyway
<< <i>The F in "OF" on the reverse of the Goldberg specimen is fully struck.
The F on the reverse of the DLRC specimen is not fully struck.
I believe they are different coins.
Die polish, since it is a die characteristic, will likely be the same on multiple coins. >>
Josh, I think you are 100% correct.
First thought is that die polish lines SHOULD match up if from the same die. It is the same as a letter matching up.
We are talking a pop five coin here, not some widget with 100 pop. There just aren't too many others around. The mark on the face, when you explode the Goldberg coin, it appears there is a mark. Camera angles can hide these marks very well, as account for the rim differences. I don't buy for a minute that the F isn't fully struck. I bet it is all in the angle of the coin being shot.
Coincidental
The first star is weakly struck, then the same right half stars are weakly struck. The bold polish line off of libertys left arm is too similiar.
Most all of these coins are weakly struck on the reverse. This example isn't. Just look at the 65 available from David Hall, weak reverse. This fully struck shield isn't readily available. Then you have an old holdered 65 come to market and bam! This new 66 shows up on the seen.
Also, not all 1866 uncs have die polish lines, tho I do recall the gem coin Laura had in inventory about 18m ago which definitely had them.
Briggs indicates he has seen a couple uncs without the die wear in the shield. It is a very rare beast, if you can find a true unc.
And yes the fully struck reverse is a very rare coin.
However, I agree that it would've been better left alone.
Edit: that's IF it is the same coin- I now see some folks pointing out that it isn't.
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
morris <><
** I would take a shack on the Rock over a castle in the sand !! **
Don't take life so seriously...nobody gets out alive.
ALL VALLEY COIN AND JEWELRY
28480 B OLD TOWN FRONT ST
TEMECULA, CA 92590
(951) 757-0334
www.allvalleycoinandjewelry.com
<< <i>Looks like the same coin to me. >>
---NOT ANYMORE!!--
BEFORE - nice and orginal ... "The old dull crusty version"
After whizzed and shiny ... "The new 'improved' version"
And the person who ruined this coin got his reward. It went from an NCG AU-50 to a PCGS AU-58.
Those who have more money than brains enjoy "the new and improved" version.
1) Minute scratch not in the same direction as the die polishing lines on Liberty's face from the upper lip to the earlobe.
2) Minute tic in field in front of the middle of Liberty's left shin about 1/5 the way to the bottom-most right star.
They show up differently in the two photographs due to the lighting. Fie on DLRC for this, IMHO.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Look at the shape of the cruddy toning along the rim from the dot after DOL to the C in AMERICA. Then look at the white coin. Same exact shape in the haze along the rim. Either it was something on the die transferred to multiple coins or it's the same coin.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
2. That gold piece is a crime!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The first photo shows a classic beauty!!!!
rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
Bill, yes they destroyed that coin as well. I am wondering if there will be original coins left in this world in 10 years. Perhaps that will be the down fall of coin collecting. All the trash and not enough interesting material to spread around and keep collectors happy.
What a sad sad day.
NSDR - Life Member
SSDC - Life Member
ANA - Pay As I Go Member
The name is LEE!
It isn't a proof, the proof are fully struck as they are struck multiple times. They would never have incomplete stars.
The difference in stars you see is because of the angle. It is the same coin.
What is the likely hood of 2 rare fully struck reverse coins, in similiar condition being available at the same time. Which coincidently have several identifiable markers. The pop for 65 and 66 is 15 total coins. I don't think so.
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
The amount of die polish on that DLRC coin doesn't seem to indicate a proof striking.
For every toned silver coin that upgrades on the conservation process, I'll bet 2 others come back lower.
roadrunner
The date placement here is to the left of the unc version. Compare the example in Heritage 5/05:6866, an obvious unc. Draw a straight line along the right side of the "1" in the date down to the dentil. This coin aligns over the center of a dentil and the unc over a gap in the dentils. So, I'm fairly certain this coin comes from the proof dies. But what's wierd is that Briggs says the proofs are all well struck, and we have with this coin the weak stars, not to mention the die polish. I'm going to hypothesize that the proof die was used for proofs, severely polished for whatever reason (accounting for weak stars and die polish lines), then used to strike off some uncs.
Also, I think I see clash marks in the right obverse field of the white coin That supports the unc argument. We'd have to see the coin in person to say for sure on the clash marks. Also, I do believe this coin is the same as the Goldberg coin.
Where is lathmach, he can take one glance at this and immediately tell you what it is
<< <i> Bill, yes they destroyed that coin as well. I am wondering if there will be original coins left in this world in 10 years. Perhaps that will be the down fall of coin collecting. All the trash and not enough interesting material to spread around and keep collectors happy. >>
I used to feel this way and then eventually I realized there is nothing you can really do about controlling the greed. There are parasites in all aspects of nature and unfortunately coin collecting is not immune. On the bright side, collections that contain numismatically pleasing and original coins will only increase in value over time as more and more coins continue to be lost to commercialization.
Still, dipping such a rare coin in the search of the almighty dollar is a shame.
Tom
GET A ROPE !!!!!!!
Jon
This was a tricky one. The biggest problem in comparing the images is that they were shot with very different methods. The lighting and shadowing can play tricks with your eyes.
However........after tedious image forensics, I can tell you that these ARE the same coin. The only difference is that the blast white coin has had it's beautiful, original patina stripped and washed down a sink in some coin doctor's filthy kitchen. All in the name of profit. There was absolutely no reason to ruin that coin, other than greed and avarice. The patina was actually protecting the coin and was an integral part of the coin's history. Now it is gone forever, preserved only by an image in Goldberg's auction catalog.
I would love to hear someone defend this particular case of coin doctoring. Pathetic!
PS - where's the coin doctor posse now?
Our eBay auctions - TRUE auctions: start at $0.01, no reserve, 30 day unconditional return privilege & free shipping!
oh....and in addition to the evidence provided by others, check out the black dot towards the inboard point of star 5. They missed that one. But man, that coin was severely stripped to remove the toning to that extent. It would take undiluted acid to achieve that level of stripping.
Our eBay auctions - TRUE auctions: start at $0.01, no reserve, 30 day unconditional return privilege & free shipping!
but then again, that coin may have been blast white a few
times before, hm?
maybe the toning on it previously was AT? before that white,
before that NT, before that...
can someone follow the coin back in time 100 years for provinence?
would be funny to have someone come on and say that coin
was owned by me and blast white 15 years ago.
how would i feel then? bamboozled maybe?
edited to add: just random thoughts, this thread was very
informative.
I don't know if it's fair to place this blame, but I assign it to TPGs that will give an obviously cleaned coin a bump in grade.
I have heard it some many times it seems like a mantra, "old silver won't be pristine white".
When they see something like that come through, they should either BB it or netgrade (a stealth netgrade) it by bumping it down 2 to 3 notches from what it's technical grade would be.