How can you be outbid half an hour after internet bidding closes?

Bikingnut · March 1, 2006 9:11PM

I was still the high bidder on this 45P Washington half an hour after the internet bidding closed. This morning I see I am out bid, but the live floor auction doesn't start until later today.

Heritage Auction

Another reason I don't like Heritage Auctions.

Dennis

rkfish · March 1, 2006 9:16PM

Dennis,

Heritage allows "after hours" bidding by "legacy" customers (I believe it's called) from their clients.......not sure what the parameters are to become one.

cointagious · March 1, 2006 9:17PM

If you're a big spender, like me, they continue to let us bid hours after the riffraff. AAMF, I can bid until 5pm central time today.

KevinMcMillen · March 1, 2006 9:40PM

I had the same thing happen to me a few years back I learned to late even though I am a Legacy member I didn't know the deal.

I have had many other things happen sent the wrong lots more than once. I did some floor bidding & the bid number was not on an item I had bid on so I got that settled before I left they mistook another bidders # on the lot. Never assume check & double check make sure its right before you leave. I have bid at lots of auctions mistakes happen I even had an item stolen before I picked my lots up the auction company never found it.

Koinlink · March 1, 2006 9:44PM

If certain people can bid after hours, then what's the point of offering the coins to the general public at all?

Outhaul · March 1, 2006 9:57PM

<< If certain people can bid after hours, then what's the point of offering the coins to the general public at all? >>

Ahh...THAT is what separates the big spenders from the rest of us riff-raff. If they can squeeze a few extra buck out of a customer then that's the name of the game. They make the more well-heeled feel privileged, feed their egos by allowing them something others can't have therefore generating more revenue.

This is why I don't buy from Heritage anymore. I have had this same thing happen to me too many times to mention. Why should I even bother bidding when some dink can snatch my winnings right out from under me?

Cheers,

Bob

OKbustchaser · March 1, 2006 10:09PM

<< If certain people can bid after hours, then what's the point of offering the coins to the general public at all?

>>

The only reason auction houses offer internet bidding is to create interest in a given sale. In general internet or mail bids are basically used to establish opening floor bids.

Can one win with an internet bid? Of course, but, if you want to win a particular lot--even if you are a legacy--your best bet is still to bid live either in person or through an agent.

stev32k · March 1, 2006 10:20PM

<<The only reason auction houses offer internet bidding is to create interest in a given sale. In general internet or mail bids are basically used to establish opening floor bids.>>

I quit bidding on any of these live auctions for just that reason. I bid strong money on about 15 or 20 Heritage lots and didn't win any of them so I quit wasting my time.

Sphinx357 · March 1, 2006 10:28PM

<< Dennis,

Heritage allows "after hours" bidding by "legacy" customers (I believe it's called) from their clients.......not sure what the parameters are to become one. >>

Wow that's incredibly pathetic.

ziggy29 · March 2, 2006 12:02AM

I don't even bother bidding in an online auction when there will still be floor bidding after the online bidding closes.

carl · March 2, 2006 12:09AM

Called live and learn. That same thing is common in many stages of life besides coins. That is why there are so many investigations as to the legality of auctions, contract bidding, etc. The main thing to be learned is to stay away from such places, tell everone you know, spread the word as much as possible.

Gemineye · March 2, 2006 12:20AM

I notice Teletrade max bid after closing ......Is this the same policy.........?????

ziggy29 · March 2, 2006 12:33AM

<< I notice Teletrade max bid after closing ......Is this the same policy.........????? >>

I think with Teletrade that would only happen if the high bid doesn't meet the reserve.

OKbustchaser · March 2, 2006 12:41AM

Teletrade does not automatically raise an existing bid when another bid is placed. They periodically ( I have never been able to determine how often) check to see if a bid needs to be raised either towards a max or a reserve. They also check one last time after the close. I actually like this as it helps to keep me from being sniped.

Conder101 · March 2, 2006 1:01AM

Another reason why the bid may go up after the internet bidding ends but before the floor bids start is from the application of mail or fax bids, or from absentee bids handed to them in person by people who will not be prsent at the floor bidding. Just because the internet bidding ends doesn't mean that all bidding is suspended.

mozin · March 2, 2006 8:41AM

If the floor bid follows internet bidding, an internet snipe bid is useless. Nine out of ten times I am high internet bidder at closing, I lose to a floor bidder.

Heritage likes me, so they gave me Legacy status. What they like, is that I place a lot of bids to crank up the floor bidders, not that I win many lots. I bring Heritage higher fees.

Bikingnut · March 2, 2006 12:03PM

Heritage allows "after hours" bidding by "legacy" customers (I believe it's called) from their clients.......not sure what the parameters are to become one.

Well, that's just plain wrong. If the "legacy" bidders want to bid, let them bid before the close of the auction. Can you imagine if ebay started allowing power sellers to do this?

Bikingnut · March 2, 2006 12:19PM

Yes, the reverse was weak. I think the fact that it was in a first generation holder is what generated the price. The 49P PCGS 65 in a first generation holder went for over $250 and it was just a plain white 49P.

ziggy29 · March 2, 2006 12:47PM

<< Well, that's just plain wrong. If the "legacy" bidders want to bid, let them bid before the close of the auction. Can you imagine if ebay started allowing power sellers to do this? >>

I agree. But it would be more like power BUYERS getting the last chance to snipe after everyone else was defenseless.

I understand that these are businesses and that they should cater to their best customers, but this just seems like it alters the playing field so much that it seems a bit smarmy.

PonyExpress8 · March 2, 2006 1:22PM

Well I have had 50% success bidding on the internet with Heritage. 3 out of 6 including one tonight. I guess I look at it this way though, the internet is another option that didn't exist a few years ago, when you had to mail in a max bid and then you were represented by someone at the auction firm, where a mistake could be made.

Alternatively, have a solid dealer whose eye you trust represent you if there are coins you really want to add, which I have done too. They 5% they typically charge is often balanced out by getting the bid in the proper sequence increment. Set the limit, see if there are two or three you would like and hire that agent. This works pretty well and I picked up a really exceptional one at the Baltimore show last fall.

There are certainly more options without the cost of going yourself then there have ever been.

Good luck all.

Heywood · March 2, 2006 1:25PM

I lost an internet bid where My high (with juice) was what it sold for (with juice).

How could that happen? (I am pretty sure my bid was earlier)

Coxe · March 2, 2006 2:50PM

Legacy bidders get cut off before the floor gets the live auction. It is not really sniping. A max bid is a max bid. If you want to play to the end, call into the floor. The extra hours a legacy bidder gets is the glue to keep a good customer around. The bottom line is Heritage and the consignor want top dollar for the lot. This is part of the way that can be delivered. High rollers also get free hotel rooms in Vegas. Perhaps some don't see that as fair while others see it as good business.

Frankcoins · March 2, 2006 5:07PM

<< 

<< Well, that's just plain wrong. If the "legacy" bidders want to bid, let them bid before the close of the auction. Can you imagine if ebay started allowing power sellers to do this? >>

I agree. But it would be more like power BUYERS getting the last chance to snipe after everyone else was defenseless.

I understand that these are businesses and that they should cater to their best customers, but this just seems like it alters the playing field so much that it seems a bit smarmy. >>

Their customers are the consignors, not the bidders.

PerryHall · March 2, 2006 9:16PM

<< Their customers are the consignors, not the bidders. >>

Both consignors and bidders are their customers. They have to be fair to both and provide good customer service to both if they want to be successful. Ultimately, their money comes from the bidders.

Bikingnut · March 2, 2006 9:18PM

The extra hours a legacy bidder gets is the glue to keep a good customer around.

And drives away the "bad" customers like me...

1040taxman · March 3, 2006 12:46AM

I have bid on a half a dozen coins at the COIN UNIVERSE price level only to get blown away every time.I am done with this.......TOM

Conder101 · March 3, 2006 2:36AM

You want to be able to do the same thing that the "Legacy" do? After the internet bidding closes pick up a phone and place a phone bid, or send a fax bid, or have someone hand them an absentee bid. There, you've now placed a bid after all the internet bidders. No big deal.

<< I lost an internet bid where My high (with juice) was what it sold for (with juice).

How could that happen? (I am pretty sure my bid was earlier) >>

After the internet bidding closed they applied the mail and fax bids and your high matched one of them and it had a date/time that preceeded your internet bid. So even though it was applied later, it was an earlier bid than yours.

fishcooker · March 3, 2006 2:48AM

Wow. Hertiage used to be respectable.

How can you be outbid half an hour after internet bidding closes?

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