Given that the object was graded and slabbed by NGC ( and remembering the rainbow object they recently graded ) , I would guess what you have is a blank from a washer factory. The washer blank never made it to the center punching operation so I guess it would be considered to be an error washer.
Some guy pulled that out of a bin at Home Depot and on a whim decided to submit it to NGC. It clearly meets the criteria for a " market acceptable Washer error " but NGC in all their wisdom have blundered again and slabbed it as some sort of Numismatic item.
The slide continues for " we're #2 - we try to please just a little harder now" NGC.
John - No problem. And while you're at it, how about auditioning for a cataloging job at Smythe and showing us how you would write it up? Just don't put too much effort into it, I can't promise anything. Just something quick, please.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
OK, here's where Andy got it -- and what I had to say about it when it crossed my desk earlier this winter.
1911 Lincoln "nickel" pattern electrotype trial. Copper-painted white metal, uniface. Judd C1911-2, Pollock-5155. Rarity-8. As Made.
69.5 grains, 21.5 mm. A lustrous metallic pale copper sheen is overlaid on the silver-gray metal beneath with some olive highlights. Very attractive, well made and sculptural in its relief. The tiny 1911 date is behind Lincoln's head, while LIBERTY, lacking from the first Indian designs, is along the left border. The fields are textured, and the profile of Lincoln is far more visually engrossing than that found on the Lincoln cent. This piece, while lotted after the Indian "cent" design in our sale and listed second in the Judd reference among the Fraser electrotrials, was actually conceived first.
The method of production and history of this piece is the same as Lot 857, though this trial apparently dates from the summer of 1911. Taxay notes that it was May 1911 when the Treasury Department began to consider redesigning the nickel, and within a month Mint Director George Roberts corresponded with Fraser about possible designs. Fraser's reply to Roberts, dated June 13, 1911, is cited by Taxay:
"I think your idea of the Lincoln head is a splendid one and I shall be very glad to make you some sketches as soon as possible and let you see them. I think they should be reduced to the actual size of the coin; otherwise we will not be really able to judge them, even in the sketch period. I will have that done here, where I can watch the process."
The present lot is the reduced "sketch" Fraser mentioned, like the previous piece an electrotype copy of the reduction from plaster made on the reducing lathe in his studio. It is apparently the only surviving trial from the non-starting Lincoln design, doomed both by the presence of a Lincoln cent and Fraser's own desire to try an Indian and Buffalo motif. While Pollock lists two varieties, we believe these may actually both be this specimen, simply photographed in indifferent quality during one of its two offerings. This Judd number is described by uspatterns.com as unique. Reunited with the Lot 857 from Fraser's lathe and, later, his estate, we would be delighted to see both enter the same advanced cabinet.
The weight published in the 1981 ANA sale was apparently a typo, as this is the same piece.
From the estate of James Earle Fraser; Bowers and Ruddy's 1981 ANA Sale, July 1981, Lot 2423; Bowers and Merena's sale of the Milton Cohen Collection, January 1985, Lot 506.
After reading that story, "cool" hardly seems to suffice. Awesome piece.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
Ilike it better for its historical interest than I do for the design. It really doesn't excite me. There are many other simular items that I like better. It would be a nice piece for a museum.
Taken for what it is - a gemmy 20th Century pattern that is probably unique - it seems like a really wonderful value to me (even at double what it realized).
What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
Actually, Andy, a very cool piece. On a piece like that, the grade is irrevelent.
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal.
No - you were there when I bought it and vice versa. Thanks for letting me have one!
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal.
Comments
comment for now.
I really like it though.
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
What year or near abouts were these electrotypes first introduced as a means for creating a die for coinage ?
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
I love this Hobby.
That specimen just goes to show you where Frasier's mind was at.
The full-feature portrait, albeit facing opposite, and the LIBERTY form the perfect Buffalo predecessor.
That specimen knocks my socks off........
Pete
Some guy pulled that out of a bin at Home Depot and on a whim decided to submit it to NGC. It clearly meets the criteria for a " market acceptable Washer error " but NGC in all their wisdom have blundered again and slabbed it as some sort of Numismatic item.
The slide continues for " we're #2 - we try to please just a little harder now" NGC.
for some reason it appears i see the shape of letters..
and the dark area is obscuring it.
neat post. i have no clue what it could be and how it got
graded NGC MS65.
<< <i>Looks like italy.
Just a guess: You don't travel much, do you? >>
He's talking about the less famous ROUND Italy
My posts viewed
since 8/1/6
2 Cam-Slams!
1 Russ POTD!
Mind if I post where you got it?
Betts medals, colonial coins, US Mint medals, foreign coins found in early America, and other numismatic Americana
<< <i>Can anybody identify this? >>
[sarcasm]Yep, that's a jpeg image.
Ask me no questions, I'll tell you no lies.
<< <i>neat post. i have no clue what it could be and how it got
graded NGC MS65. >>
On coins like this, you do not grade the reverse. Same with confederate restrike half dollars (except in that case it is the obverse).
John - No problem. And while you're at it, how about auditioning for a cataloging job at Smythe and showing us how you would write it up? Just don't put too much effort into it, I can't promise anything. Just something quick, please.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
1911 Lincoln "nickel" pattern electrotype trial. Copper-painted white metal, uniface. Judd C1911-2, Pollock-5155. Rarity-8. As Made.
69.5 grains, 21.5 mm. A lustrous metallic pale copper sheen is overlaid on the silver-gray metal beneath with some olive highlights. Very attractive, well made and sculptural in its relief. The tiny 1911 date is behind Lincoln's head, while LIBERTY, lacking from the first Indian designs, is along the left border. The fields are textured, and the profile of Lincoln is far more visually engrossing than that found on the Lincoln cent. This piece, while lotted after the Indian "cent" design in our sale and listed second in the Judd reference among the Fraser electrotrials, was actually conceived first.
The method of production and history of this piece is the same as Lot 857, though this trial apparently dates from the summer of 1911. Taxay notes that it was May 1911 when the Treasury Department began to consider redesigning the nickel, and within a month Mint Director George Roberts corresponded with Fraser about possible designs. Fraser's reply to Roberts, dated June 13, 1911, is cited by Taxay:
"I think your idea of the Lincoln head is a splendid one and I shall be very glad to make you some sketches as soon as possible and let you see them. I think they should be reduced to the actual size of the coin; otherwise we will not be really able to judge them, even in the sketch period. I will have that done here, where I can watch the process."
The present lot is the reduced "sketch" Fraser mentioned, like the previous piece an electrotype copy of the reduction from plaster made on the reducing lathe in his studio. It is apparently the only surviving trial from the non-starting Lincoln design, doomed both by the presence of a Lincoln cent and Fraser's own desire to try an Indian and Buffalo motif. While Pollock lists two varieties, we believe these may actually both be this specimen, simply photographed in indifferent quality during one of its two offerings. This Judd number is described by uspatterns.com as unique. Reunited with the Lot 857 from Fraser's lathe and, later, his estate, we would be delighted to see both enter the same advanced cabinet.
The weight published in the 1981 ANA sale was apparently a typo, as this is the same piece.
From the estate of James Earle Fraser; Bowers and Ruddy's 1981 ANA Sale, July 1981, Lot 2423; Bowers and Merena's sale of the Milton Cohen Collection, January 1985, Lot 506.
Find the whole thing on the ANR site at http://www.anrcoins.com/lotdetail.aspx?lrid=AN00031166 and the mate, a 1911-dated cent trial, here.
Betts medals, colonial coins, US Mint medals, foreign coins found in early America, and other numismatic Americana
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
Oh, you're no fun!
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
Actually, Andy, a very cool piece. On a piece like that, the grade is irrevelent.
Do I get a prize if I guess what that is?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.