<< <i>"I don't understand why everyone keeps saying this was such a good AT job that it fooled dealers and TPG graders. The fact of the matter is, the coin looks AT"
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Opinions are most accurate regarding Sunday football, on Monday.
My opinion is that the coin looked original, like it had toned in an small manilla envelope. I think the guy who toned the coin did an incredible job. It fooled the graders at NGC, it fooled the guy who sold it to me (he's no newbie), it fooled me and it fooled Brandon. It also fooled a number of highly experienced and intelligent people on this board when an image of the coin was originally posted.
Now that the coin turns out to be an outstanding piece of AT art, some want to say "well, can't you see, it's obviously a fake!" Gimme a break. Try to keep your brilliance a secret unless you were one of the very few people who publicly opined that it was AT from the git go. >>
AT or NT, a `23 Peace dollar in 66 would typically sell for less than $700, and I suspect the guaranty wouldn't be worth more than $700. Takes a lot of balls to go that far beyond the guaranty and pay $14.5 k or $12.5 k or anything else in that stratosphere.
Waaaaay too risky when you are that far beyond the gauranty dollar limit.
ha,ha,ha, don't you just love all the dealers here supporting each other?...READ THE DESCRIPTION OF THE COIN AGAIN >> There comes a point in time when words simply cannot discribe a coin''s beauty. There also comes a point in time when an image cannot portray nearly what the coin looks like in-hand. These two points intersect in this amazing coin. No matter how hard anyone tries, this coin will always look better in-hand than any image could display it. I also find it hard to find words to describe how stunning this beauty is.
To understand how rare color like this on a Peace dollar is, I will have to take a moment to explain. First of all, Peace dollars were not extensively stored in the Treasury vaults for decades such as Morgan dollars were. Most of them did make it out into commerce and many stayed in mint condition at banks and some at the Treasury. Naturally, the morgan dollars toned in the mint bags over decades and produced thousands upon thousands of impressively toned coins whereas the lowly Peace dollars didn''t stay in one place long enough to attain such heavanly toning. The ones that did tone developed mostly dusty auburn or golden hues. However, there are some exceptions to this harsh reality, as is the case for this very Peace dollar. I have seen probably 5-6 Peace dollars with very exceptional toning and most of those that I have seen exhibt some sort of paper or envelope toning and none of them are as richly toned as this example. This type of color is different from the deep tones generated by bags in that it produces lighter pastel shades. I can only imagine how long this coin sat stored in the 2x2 envelope. I would guess that it sat in there for 80 years nearly undisturbed. It would explain alot since who would bother to open a 2x2 envelope with a common date Peace dollar marked on the front? Especially if it sat in some obscure collection for decades.
This coin was purchased by us at Long Beach from a dealer who purchased it raw in the 2x2 envelope and walked it through NGC where it was holdered MS66* and then offered to us.
Rich bands of vivid pastel and neon colors radiate off the surfaces in bands of gold, pink, green, blue, magenta, gold, then royal blue covering the center of both the obverse and reverse. The obverse has a thicker patination over the surfaces muting the color slightly but a nice luster is seen beneath it lighting up the color when twirled in the light. The reverse has an excellent rolling luster and vivid pastel and neon tones similar to the obverse. When I say that there will never be another Peace dollar like this again, I am not exaggerating. This is without a doubt the finest toned Peace dollar in the market and I am 99% certain that there are none other with better toning and eye appeal than this one exhibits. If you are looking for that absolute finest toned Peace dollar, not just the finest one on the market but the finest one known to exist, then this is your shot. << description
ha,ha,ha...i really love this one...this is too funny! >> Rich bands of vivid pastel and neon colors radiate off the surfaces in bands of gold, pink, green, blue, magenta, gold, then royal blue covering the center of both the obverse and reverse. The obverse has a thicker patination over the surfaces muting the color slightly but a nice luster is seen beneath it lighting up the color when twirled in the light. The reverse has an excellent rolling luster and vivid pastel and neon tones similar to the obverse. When I say that there will never be another Peace dollar like this again, I am not exaggerating. This is without a doubt the finest toned Peace dollar in the market and I am 99% certain that there are none other with better toning and eye appeal than this one exhibits. If you are looking for that absolute finest toned Peace dollar, not just the finest one on the market but the finest one known to exist, then this is your shot. <<
What's scary is when relatively new coins are outrageously toned yet certified as authentic. Coins of color grade higher than pristine, "original skinned" pieces.
Something is definitely wrong when for example a nickel that is just a year old and obviously AT yet CERTIFIED. What happened to Knowledge, Integrity and Responsibility?
Once Integrity is lost, top tiered or not, said service(s) become no better than some of the..... "Others" that we all scoff at.
This is a perfect example of the color craziness and obsession with tarnished coins and the money some people will drop on them. A common Peace Dollar worth tens of dollars potentially selling for thousands solely because its surfaces are tarnished. Ridiculous.
I don’t care if the tarnishing was natural and the story behind it true, I think it’s absurd for a coin to balloon that much in value based only on the color of its surfaces. I place more value on the coin whose surfaces are as close to original mint state than a coin whose surfaces are attacked by tarnishing. I'm with the minority in the sense I appreciate more the original, silvery, lustrious clean coin.
Consider this: with coin doctors emerging from every shady corner cooking these once nice, original coins to add color to them so they can cash in on the tarnished coin obsession, and other coins tarnishing naturally, the original untarnished coin is becoming increasingly more rare every day. It is these truly beautiful, original, untarnished mint state coins that I will continue to spend my money on. I actually like the masses desiring these painted coins because it makes the original coins generally more affordable.
As far as Anaconda possibly selling this coin for the price they were asking, good for them, really. I mean hey, if some tool wants to drop that kind of coin on garbage like that....it's a free country.
<< <i>Consider this: with coin doctors emerging from every shady corner cooking these once nice, original coins to add color to them so they can cash in on the tarnished coin obsession, and other coins tarnishing naturally, the original untarnished coin is becoming increasingly more rare every day. >>
I really don't think we will ever have a shortage of untoned Peace $'s for you to spend yer $$ on Thiggy!
"Wars are really ugly! They're dirty and they're cold. I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole." Mary
>> Thank you Pat for finding that old listing. Something is definitely wrong here. We purchased the coin from a dealer at Long Beach who is very reputable who claimed to have purchased it in a paper 2x2 envelope from a dealer at the show and walked the coin through NGC immediately after he purchased it. After the coin came back graded, he brought it to us and since we have done business with this dealer before and because of his background, we didn't have any reason to not believe his story. BlindedByEgo was there at our booth when we purchased the coin. He can definitely back up my words. I still think it may have happened that way and the dealer he purchased it from may have made up the story. We knew it was a knockout but the colors didn't jump out as artificial. It is apparent now that there may be a different story behind this coin. I will bring the facts to Adrian and see how he wants to proceed. I have ended the eBay listing and have removed the coin from our website for the time being. I will be the first to stand up and take responsibility for listing the coin enthusiastically and I apologize that I didn't know where this coin originally came from. I will certainly do some investigative work into this coin's background with the seller on eBay. <<
do we know who this "very reputable" dealer is? how about the "other" dealer? are we talking about the first thing or the second thing? and what was the ego guy doing in the booth?
<< <i>Consider this: with coin doctors emerging from every shady corner cooking these once nice, original coins to add color to them so they can cash in on the tarnished coin obsession, and other coins tarnishing naturally, the original untarnished coin is becoming increasingly more rare every day. >>
I really don't think we will ever have a shortage of untoned Peace $'s for you to spend yer $$ on Thiggy! >>
Thiggy?
I'm talking all old coins in general, not just the Peace dollars, sir. As time goes by, more and more of them tone naturally and artificially, making the bright ones increasingly rare.
<< <i>I'm talking all old coins in general, not just the Peace dollars, sir. As time goes by, more and more of them tone naturally and artificially, making the bright ones increasingly rare. >>
>> As an aside....I'm really disappointed that that Peace dollar is AT. What a huge bummer. Not the financial part although that sucks too. The fact that I finally got to handle a monster Peace dollar. You just never see them. NEVER. It was the mother of all Peace dollars. And this one looked real to me. Real to NGC. What a moose. What a disappointment. <<
got it...you "NEVER" see them...but when you do, they are $12,500...check!
>> There comes a point in time when words simply cannot discribe a coin''s beauty. << Are you going to try anyway?... >> There also comes a point in time when an image cannot portray nearly what the coin looks like in-hand. << Does that depend on the angle?... >> These two points intersect in this amazing coin. << Yes, they seemed parallel at the first but now I know what you mean… >> No matter how hard anyone tries, this coin will always look better in-hand than any image could display it. << I wish I could hold it… >> I also find it hard to find words to describe how stunning this beauty is. << Hmm, I bet gototoningcoins didn’t have much of a problem with that “THIS IS A 1923 PEACE SILVER DOLLAR WITH COLORFUL TARGET RAINBOW TONED! GEM BU.” >> To understand how rare color like this on a Peace dollar is, I will have to take a moment to explain. << Please do… >> First of all, Peace dollars were not extensively stored in the Treasury vaults for decades such as Morgan dollars were. << I see… << Most of them did make it out into commerce and many stayed in mint condition at banks and some at the Treasury. << And many were used in slot machines… >> Naturally, << Or Unnaturally… >> the morgan dollars toned in the mint bags over decades and produced thousands upon thousands of impressively toned coins whereas the lowly Peace dollars didn''t stay in one place long enough to attain such heavanly toning. << Yeah, I once heard your boss say that you “NEVER” find them in this state… >> The ones that did tone developed mostly dusty auburn or golden hues. << Yuck…who would ever want to buy one of those?..please continue…. >> However, there are some exceptions to this harsh reality, as is the case for this very Peace dollar. >> I see, a $12,500 exception… >> I have seen probably 5-6 Peace dollars with very exceptional toning and most of those that I have seen exhibt some sort of paper or envelope toning and none of them are as richly toned as this example. << Are these for sale too?... >> This type of color is different from the deep tones generated by bags in that it produces lighter pastel shades. << Nice, Matisse also used lighter pastels... >> I can only imagine how long this coin sat stored in the 2x2 envelope. << Did gototoningcoins place it in a 2x2 envelope?... >> I would guess that it sat in there for 80 years nearly undisturbed. << Frankw8768 is not convinced of that … >> It would explain alot since who would bother to open a 2x2 envelope with a common date Peace dollar marked on the front? << I know what you mean, only a dumba$$ would do such a thing... >> Especially if it sat in some obscure collection for decades. << Very well said…is the climax near?... >> This coin was purchased by us at Long Beach from a dealer who purchased it raw in the 2x2 envelope and walked it through NGC where it was holdered MS66* and then offered to us. << From a reputable dealer?... >> Rich bands of vivid pastel and neon colors radiate off the surfaces in bands of gold, pink, green, blue, magenta, gold, then royal blue covering the center of both the obverse and reverse. << Am I suppose to make love to this thing?... >> The obverse has a thicker patination over the surfaces muting the color slightly but a nice luster is seen beneath it lighting up the color when twirled in the light. << I’m about to explode…. >> The reverse has an excellent rolling luster and vivid pastel and neon tones similar to the obverse. << Yes, yes,yes…don’t stop now… >> When I say that there will never be another Peace dollar like this again, I am not exaggerating. << Does anyone have a cigarette?... >> This is without a doubt the finest toned Peace dollar in the market and I am 99% certain that there are none other with better toning and eye appeal than this one exhibits. << That was great. I’ll check your other coins tomorrow… >> If you are looking for that absolute finest toned Peace dollar, not just the finest one on the market but the finest one known to exist, then this is your shot. << Amen to that!
Even in the absence of additional info, you have a $700 coin on a good day being marketed for a price of $14,500. I think there is room for a little sarcasm. Had the same post been made in the absence of the old ebay listing, the poster probably would have gotten blasted.
Everytime I say these coins can be made, I get lots of doubting requests to post proof. This is an example for the ages.
It's not about the egos behond the coins here, it's about the lesson, and there are several to be learned. We are all better for this knowledge, and accordingly, the only thing to do at this point:
<<coinguy, did you have an opinion about this coin in the previous thread?
...btw, the description of the coin deserves few laughs and that is all that i was trying to do>>
In one of the many threads about the coin, I had said "I think the coin is very cool and beautiful looking...". I had not seen it in person as far as I know. You are free to write as you choose. Personally, though, while others might disagree, I think it's bad form to make fun of the description after the fact.
<< <i>coinguy, did you have an opinion about this coin in the previous thread?
...btw, the description of the coin deserves few laughs and that is all that i was trying to do... >>
Normally, I don't reply to trolls, but yes, I was there at the table when the folks from Anaconda bought it.
I am not a dealer.
The details of their financial agreement were none of my business. I didn't butt in.
The coin is very pretty. I have written elsewhere in this thread my feelings and thoughts; perhaps if you had taken time to real the entire thread instead of flaming us with your extraordinary brilliance, you would already have known that.
Your comments are neither insightful nor intelligent. You add nothing to the discussion.
Since this piece has now received so much attention, it will be interesting to see how NGC handles this, and if they make any kind of public statement.
<< <i>Is there any status update that can be given to us the masses?
Did NGC buy it back?
Did the selling dealer recant his/her 2X2 envelope story? >>
The coin is currently en-route to NGC and they have confirmed that it WAS originally submitted in a 2x2 envelope by the dealer we purchased it from. I will disclose the details when this matter is resolved.
<< <i>The coin is currently en-route to NGC and they have confirmed that it WAS originally submitted in a 2x2 envelope by the dealer we purchased it from >>
Interesting that they would know/remember something like that.
Interesting that they would know/remember something like that.
I actually didn't find it all that surprising. They just pulled the submission form and probably asked the guy who accepted the submission at the show and then down the line until someone who handled it remembered taking it out of the envelope or seeing it in there. It's kind of a hard coin to forget.
I wonder if the submitting dealer was able to convince someone at NGC with some half baked story about the coin being stored in an envelope when he submitted it as a means to attempt to get them to holder it?
<<SEVERAL board members said they saw the coin IN HAND and said it was a 66 AND the toning was REAL!>>
Lemmings.
I have to agree with ANACONDA on one note - the toned buffalo nickels, and PCGS slabbing them. I KNOW for a fact how and ******** with those, and their were "chuckles" when they got into PCGS holders.
When there is big-time money to be made (TONING), everyone gets involved. I agree also it shouldn't matter whether it was AT or NT. Slab it anyway. ALL experts can not tell the difference - (this coin as proof of the matter).
I agree on ANOTHER ASPECT: It is NOT NGC's fault. All they do is grade the thing and put it in a piece of plastic. They don't put a price tag on it, nor should they have to pay anymore than $55 for it if anyone goes after them. Their slab doesn't say, NT!!!!!!!!!
<<This is why I dont trust toned coins anymore! When I 1st looked at the coin I thought it was "AT" BIG TIME but people who held the coin in there hand where saying it was NT. Now if people who deal in toned coins and grade them have a hard time telling AT from NT how can any one trust toned coins or pay $$$$$ for them?>>
Jabba the Hut - You are a true Jedi. It pleases me that the force is still with you...
<< <i><<coinguy, did you have an opinion about this coin in the previous thread?
...btw, the description of the coin deserves few laughs and that is all that i was trying to do>>
In one of the many threads about the coin, I had said "I think the coin is very cool and beautiful looking...". I had not seen it in person as far as I know. You are free to write as you choose. Personally, though, while others might disagree, I think it's bad form to make fun of the description after the fact. >>
Lloyd, their slab need not have "NT" written on the grading label to indicate that the coin is NT. By grading and encapsulating it, rather than rejecting/body-bagging it for "questionable" or "artificial" color/toning, they are, in effect, saying it's NT. That's the general perception and they are aware of that perception.
<< <i> They don't put a price tag on it, nor should they have to pay anymore than $55 for it if anyone goes after them >>
In that case, their grading guarantee (and perhaps their reputation) would be essentially worthless.
WOW: Makes me think of something. Maybe for another thread: Why is there such a thing as grade guarantee, when grading is so subjective??? I know, I know... It helps with the TPG's marketing and reputation,
I have to echo what DRAGON said. I wonder if this came to NGC with some half-baked story.
Coinguy1 says such stories don't matter but I think sometimes they do. The TPG's do allow submitters to provide additional facts about coins (there is even a place on NGC's form) and I know some toned coin submitters put stuff down like "found it in a cardboard coin folder." The monster toned ANACS Roanoke 50C got NGC-slabbed that way. Somebody, maybe TBT, bought it and traced its ownership history and sent that info with the coin to NGC where it was holdered after being bagged beforehand.
<< <i>Unless one has seen the coin in question, in hand, remember that wonders can be done with photoshop >>
Do you think that the orininal pic/s of the coin as posted here were/are accurate? Would there be as much hoopla if the coin was a 63 and of course commensurately less than $14K instead of a 66? >>
very good point ! If it were in a 63 holder -no one would give a hoot !!
<< have to echo what DRAGON said. I wonder if this came to NGC with some half-baked story.
Coinguy1 says such stories don't matter but I think sometimes they do..>>
I can't find my original quote, but believe it was to the effect that I doubted the coin would have been submitted to and received by NGC along with a story. Whatever my comment, I did not mean to imply that "documentation" or "history" is never provided to the grading companies . My apologies if I gave that impression. However, my guess is that's quite uncommon and that when it does occur, it's much more likely to be in the event that a coin has already been rejected previously.
Comments
<< <i>"I don't understand why everyone keeps saying this was such a good AT job that it fooled dealers and TPG graders.
The fact of the matter is, the coin looks AT"
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Opinions are most accurate regarding Sunday football, on Monday.
My opinion is that the coin looked original, like it had toned in an small manilla envelope. I think the guy who toned the coin did an incredible job. It fooled the graders at NGC, it fooled the guy who sold it to me (he's no newbie), it fooled me and it fooled Brandon. It also fooled a number of highly experienced and intelligent people on this board when an image of the coin was originally posted.
Now that the coin turns out to be an outstanding piece of AT art, some want to say "well, can't you see, it's obviously a fake!" Gimme a break. Try to keep your brilliance a secret unless you were one of the very few people who publicly opined that it was AT from the git go. >>
very very well said
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
Waaaaay too risky when you are that far beyond the gauranty dollar limit.
Robert A. Heinlein
>>
There comes a point in time when words simply cannot discribe a coin''s beauty. There also comes a point in time when an image cannot portray nearly what the coin looks like in-hand. These two points intersect in this amazing coin. No matter how hard anyone tries, this coin will always look better in-hand than any image could display it. I also find it hard to find words to describe how stunning this beauty is.
To understand how rare color like this on a Peace dollar is, I will have to take a moment to explain. First of all, Peace dollars were not extensively stored in the Treasury vaults for decades such as Morgan dollars were. Most of them did make it out into commerce and many stayed in mint condition at banks and some at the Treasury. Naturally, the morgan dollars toned in the mint bags over decades and produced thousands upon thousands of impressively toned coins whereas the lowly Peace dollars didn''t stay in one place long enough to attain such heavanly toning. The ones that did tone developed mostly dusty auburn or golden hues. However, there are some exceptions to this harsh reality, as is the case for this very Peace dollar. I have seen probably 5-6 Peace dollars with very exceptional toning and most of those that I have seen exhibt some sort of paper or envelope toning and none of them are as richly toned as this example. This type of color is different from the deep tones generated by bags in that it produces lighter pastel shades. I can only imagine how long this coin sat stored in the 2x2 envelope. I would guess that it sat in there for 80 years nearly undisturbed. It would explain alot since who would bother to open a 2x2 envelope with a common date Peace dollar marked on the front? Especially if it sat in some obscure collection for decades.
This coin was purchased by us at Long Beach from a dealer who purchased it raw in the 2x2 envelope and walked it through NGC where it was holdered MS66* and then offered to us.
Rich bands of vivid pastel and neon colors radiate off the surfaces in bands of gold, pink, green, blue, magenta, gold, then royal blue covering the center of both the obverse and reverse. The obverse has a thicker patination over the surfaces muting the color slightly but a nice luster is seen beneath it lighting up the color when twirled in the light. The reverse has an excellent rolling luster and vivid pastel and neon tones similar to the obverse. When I say that there will never be another Peace dollar like this again, I am not exaggerating. This is without a doubt the finest toned Peace dollar in the market and I am 99% certain that there are none other with better toning and eye appeal than this one exhibits. If you are looking for that absolute finest toned Peace dollar, not just the finest one on the market but the finest one known to exist, then this is your shot.
<<
description
>>
Rich bands of vivid pastel and neon colors radiate off the surfaces in bands of gold, pink, green, blue, magenta, gold, then royal blue covering the center of both the obverse and reverse. The obverse has a thicker patination over the surfaces muting the color slightly but a nice luster is seen beneath it lighting up the color when twirled in the light. The reverse has an excellent rolling luster and vivid pastel and neon tones similar to the obverse. When I say that there will never be another Peace dollar like this again, I am not exaggerating. This is without a doubt the finest toned Peace dollar in the market and I am 99% certain that there are none other with better toning and eye appeal than this one exhibits. If you are looking for that absolute finest toned Peace dollar, not just the finest one on the market but the finest one known to exist, then this is your shot.
<<
Something is definitely wrong when for example a nickel that is just a year old and obviously AT yet CERTIFIED. What happened to Knowledge, Integrity and Responsibility?
Once Integrity is lost, top tiered or not, said service(s) become no better than some of the..... "Others" that we all scoff at.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
I don’t care if the tarnishing was natural and the story behind it true, I think it’s absurd for a coin to balloon that much in value based only on the color of its surfaces. I place more value on the coin whose surfaces are as close to original mint state than a coin whose surfaces are attacked by tarnishing. I'm with the minority in the sense I appreciate more the original, silvery, lustrious clean coin.
Consider this: with coin doctors emerging from every shady corner cooking these once nice, original coins to add color to them so they can cash in on the tarnished coin obsession, and other coins tarnishing naturally, the original untarnished coin is becoming increasingly more rare every day. It is these truly beautiful, original, untarnished mint state coins that I will continue to spend my money on. I actually like the masses desiring these painted coins because it makes the original coins generally more affordable.
As far as Anaconda possibly selling this coin for the price they were asking, good for them, really. I mean hey, if some tool wants to drop that kind of coin on garbage like that....it's a free country.
<< <i>Consider this: with coin doctors emerging from every shady corner cooking these once nice, original coins to add color to them so they can cash in on the tarnished coin obsession, and other coins tarnishing naturally, the original untarnished coin is becoming increasingly more rare every day. >>
I really don't think we will ever have a shortage of untoned Peace $'s for you to spend yer $$ on Thiggy!
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
Thank you Pat for finding that old listing. Something is definitely wrong here. We purchased the coin from a dealer at Long Beach who is very reputable who claimed to have purchased it in a paper 2x2 envelope from a dealer at the show and walked the coin through NGC immediately after he purchased it. After the coin came back graded, he brought it to us and since we have done business with this dealer before and because of his background, we didn't have any reason to not believe his story. BlindedByEgo was there at our booth when we purchased the coin. He can definitely back up my words. I still think it may have happened that way and the dealer he purchased it from may have made up the story. We knew it was a knockout but the colors didn't jump out as artificial. It is apparent now that there may be a different story behind this coin. I will bring the facts to Adrian and see how he wants to proceed. I have ended the eBay listing and have removed the coin from our website for the time being. I will be the first to stand up and take responsibility for listing the coin enthusiastically and I apologize that I didn't know where this coin originally came from. I will certainly do some investigative work into this coin's background with the seller on eBay.
<<
do we know who this "very reputable" dealer is? how about the "other" dealer? are we talking about the first thing or the second thing? and what was the ego guy doing in the booth?
<< <i>
<< <i>Consider this: with coin doctors emerging from every shady corner cooking these once nice, original coins to add color to them so they can cash in on the tarnished coin obsession, and other coins tarnishing naturally, the original untarnished coin is becoming increasingly more rare every day. >>
I really don't think we will ever have a shortage of untoned Peace $'s for you to spend yer $$ on Thiggy! >>
Thiggy?
I'm talking all old coins in general, not just the Peace dollars, sir. As time goes by, more and more of them tone naturally and artificially, making the bright ones increasingly rare.
do we know how the coin got from franky to the "first" reputable dealer...
<< <i>I place more value on the coin whose surfaces are as close to original >>
Agree wholeheartedly.
This is Natural, original skinned toning
Please excuse my puny little pix but I'm just learning and it's the best I can do!
<< <i>I'm talking all old coins in general, not just the Peace dollars, sir. As time goes by, more and more of them tone naturally and artificially, making the bright ones increasingly rare. >>
A little "dip" fixes the rarity issue.
As an aside....I'm really disappointed that that Peace dollar is AT. What a huge bummer. Not the financial part although that sucks too. The fact that I finally got to handle a monster Peace dollar. You just never see them. NEVER. It was the mother of all Peace dollars. And this one looked real to me. Real to NGC. What a moose. What a disappointment.
<<
got it...you "NEVER" see them...but when you do, they are $12,500...check!
<< <i>A little "dip" fixes the rarity issue >>
Not necessarily. When you strip a coin's skin off and fail to neutralize the acid, the coin will stink and tone faster than ever!
There comes a point in time when words simply cannot discribe a coin''s beauty.
<<
Are you going to try anyway?...
>>
There also comes a point in time when an image cannot portray nearly what the coin looks like in-hand.
<<
Does that depend on the angle?...
>>
These two points intersect in this amazing coin.
<<
Yes, they seemed parallel at the first but now I know what you mean…
>>
No matter how hard anyone tries, this coin will always look better in-hand than any image could display it.
<<
I wish I could hold it…
>>
I also find it hard to find words to describe how stunning this beauty is.
<<
Hmm, I bet gototoningcoins didn’t have much of a problem with that “THIS IS A 1923 PEACE SILVER DOLLAR WITH COLORFUL TARGET RAINBOW TONED! GEM BU.”
>>
To understand how rare color like this on a Peace dollar is, I will have to take a moment to explain.
<<
Please do…
>>
First of all, Peace dollars were not extensively stored in the Treasury vaults for decades such as Morgan dollars were.
<<
I see…
<<
Most of them did make it out into commerce and many stayed in mint condition at banks and some at the Treasury.
<<
And many were used in slot machines…
>>
Naturally,
<<
Or Unnaturally…
>>
the morgan dollars toned in the mint bags over decades and produced thousands upon thousands of impressively toned coins whereas the lowly Peace dollars didn''t stay in one place long enough to attain such heavanly toning.
<<
Yeah, I once heard your boss say that you “NEVER” find them in this state…
>>
The ones that did tone developed mostly dusty auburn or golden hues.
<<
Yuck…who would ever want to buy one of those?..please continue….
>>
However, there are some exceptions to this harsh reality, as is the case for this very Peace dollar.
>>
I see, a $12,500 exception…
>>
I have seen probably 5-6 Peace dollars with very exceptional toning and most of those that I have seen exhibt some sort of paper or envelope toning and none of them are as richly toned as this example.
<<
Are these for sale too?...
>>
This type of color is different from the deep tones generated by bags in that it produces lighter pastel shades.
<<
Nice, Matisse also used lighter pastels...
>>
I can only imagine how long this coin sat stored in the 2x2 envelope.
<<
Did gototoningcoins place it in a 2x2 envelope?...
>>
I would guess that it sat in there for 80 years nearly undisturbed.
<<
Frankw8768 is not convinced of that …
>>
It would explain alot since who would bother to open a 2x2 envelope with a common date Peace dollar marked on the front?
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I know what you mean, only a dumba$$ would do such a thing...
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Especially if it sat in some obscure collection for decades.
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Very well said…is the climax near?...
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This coin was purchased by us at Long Beach from a dealer who purchased it raw in the 2x2 envelope and walked it through NGC where it was holdered MS66* and then offered to us.
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From a reputable dealer?...
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Rich bands of vivid pastel and neon colors radiate off the surfaces in bands of gold, pink, green, blue, magenta, gold, then royal blue covering the center of both the obverse and reverse.
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Am I suppose to make love to this thing?...
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The obverse has a thicker patination over the surfaces muting the color slightly but a nice luster is seen beneath it lighting up the color when twirled in the light.
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I’m about to explode….
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The reverse has an excellent rolling luster and vivid pastel and neon tones similar to the obverse.
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Yes, yes,yes…don’t stop now…
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When I say that there will never be another Peace dollar like this again, I am not exaggerating.
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Does anyone have a cigarette?...
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This is without a doubt the finest toned Peace dollar in the market and I am 99% certain that there are none other with better toning and eye appeal than this one exhibits.
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That was great. I’ll check your other coins tomorrow…
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If you are looking for that absolute finest toned Peace dollar, not just the finest one on the market but the finest one known to exist, then this is your shot.
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Amen to that!
Everytime I say these coins can be made, I get lots of doubting requests to post proof. This is an example for the ages.
It's not about the egos behond the coins here, it's about the lesson, and there are several to be learned. We are all better for this knowledge, and accordingly, the only thing to do at this point:
...btw, the description of the coin deserves few laughs and that is all that i was trying to do...
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since 8/1/6
...btw, the description of the coin deserves few laughs and that is all that i was trying to do>>
In one of the many threads about the coin, I had said "I think the coin is very cool and beautiful looking...". I had not seen it in person as far as I know. You are free to write as you choose. Personally, though, while others might disagree, I think it's bad form to make fun of the description after the fact.
<< <i>coinguy, did you have an opinion about this coin in the previous thread?
...btw, the description of the coin deserves few laughs and that is all that i was trying to do... >>
Normally, I don't reply to trolls, but yes, I was there at the table when the folks from Anaconda bought it.
I am not a dealer.
The details of their financial agreement were none of my business. I didn't butt in.
The coin is very pretty. I have written elsewhere in this thread my feelings and thoughts; perhaps if you had taken time to real the entire thread instead of flaming us with your extraordinary brilliance, you would already have known that.
Your comments are neither insightful nor intelligent. You add nothing to the discussion.
But thank you for participating.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
Did NGC buy it back?
Did the selling dealer recant his/her 2X2 envelope story?
<< <i>It is on its way back to NGC. >>
Since this piece has now received so much attention, it will be interesting to see how NGC handles this, and if they make any kind of public statement.
<< <i>Is there any status update that can be given to us the masses?
Did NGC buy it back?
Did the selling dealer recant his/her 2X2 envelope story? >>
The coin is currently en-route to NGC and they have confirmed that it WAS originally submitted in a 2x2 envelope by the dealer we purchased it from. I will disclose the details when this matter is resolved.
<< <i>The coin is currently en-route to NGC and they have confirmed that it WAS originally submitted in a 2x2 envelope by the dealer we purchased it from >>
Interesting that they would know/remember something like that.
I actually didn't find it all that surprising. They just pulled the submission form and probably asked the guy who accepted the submission at the show and then down the line until someone who handled it remembered taking it out of the envelope or seeing it in there. It's kind of a hard coin to forget.
Lemmings.
I have to agree with ANACONDA on one note - the toned buffalo nickels, and PCGS slabbing them. I KNOW for a fact how and ******** with those, and their were "chuckles" when they got into PCGS holders.
When there is big-time money to be made (TONING), everyone gets involved. I agree also it shouldn't matter whether it was AT or NT. Slab it anyway. ALL experts can not tell the difference - (this coin as proof of the matter).
I agree on ANOTHER ASPECT: It is NOT NGC's fault. All they do is grade the thing and put it in a piece of plastic. They don't put a price tag on it, nor should they have to pay anymore than $55 for it if anyone goes after them. Their slab doesn't say, NT!!!!!!!!!
Jabba the Hut - You are a true Jedi. It pleases me that the force is still with you...
<< <i><<coinguy, did you have an opinion about this coin in the previous thread?
...btw, the description of the coin deserves few laughs and that is all that i was trying to do>>
In one of the many threads about the coin, I had said "I think the coin is very cool and beautiful looking...". I had not seen it in person as far as I know. You are free to write as you choose. Personally, though, while others might disagree, I think it's bad form to make fun of the description after the fact. >>
Good thing CU saves the PM's, blech.
<< <i>Their slab doesn't say, NT!!!!!!!!! >>
Lloyd, their slab need not have "NT" written on the grading label to indicate that the coin is NT. By grading and encapsulating it, rather than rejecting/body-bagging it for "questionable" or "artificial" color/toning, they are, in effect, saying it's NT. That's the general perception and they are aware of that perception.
<< <i> They don't put a price tag on it, nor should they have to pay anymore than $55 for it if anyone goes after them >>
In that case, their grading guarantee (and perhaps their reputation) would be essentially worthless.
<<in effect, saying it is NT>>
"So, did you actually PUT it in writing?"
"No"
"Did you even SAY it?"
"I don't recall"
I have to echo what DRAGON said. I wonder if this came to NGC with some half-baked story.
Coinguy1 says such stories don't matter but I think sometimes they do. The TPG's do allow submitters to provide additional facts about coins (there is even a place on NGC's form) and I know some toned coin submitters put stuff down like "found it in a cardboard coin folder." The monster toned ANACS Roanoke 50C got NGC-slabbed that way. Somebody, maybe TBT, bought it and traced its ownership history and sent that info with the coin to NGC where it was holdered after being bagged beforehand.
Anyhoot, it will be interesting....
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<< <i>
<< <i>i would say the demon here is NGC - and they should be punished ;severly.
Don't even think for one cotton pickin' second that
PCGS would EVER slab this A.T'd piece of crap-
And you poofie's that are starting to imply it might be natural ;
i pity your ignorance >>
They had no problem slabbing this one by our favorite ebay doctor.
Or this one either..
Yup, the Gollum has been drinking too much PCGS Kool-Aid.
It appears to me that PCGS has holdered far more AT/questionable modern proof coins than NGC has. >>
.........yes , they holder alot of fake stuff - But ; have you ever seen a Peace Dollar so
blatently fake in a PCGS slab ?
<< <i>
<< <i>Unless one has seen the coin in question, in hand, remember that wonders can be done with photoshop >>
Do you think that the orininal pic/s of the coin as posted here were/are accurate? Would there be as much hoopla if the coin was a 63 and of course commensurately less than $14K instead of a 66? >>
very good point ! If it were in a 63 holder -no one would give a hoot !!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>i would say the demon here is NGC - and they should be punished ;severly.
Don't even think for one cotton pickin' second that
PCGS would EVER slab this A.T'd piece of crap-
And you poofie's that are starting to imply it might be natural ;
i pity your ignorance >>
They had no problem slabbing this one by our favorite ebay doctor.
Or this one either..
Yup, the Gollum has been drinking too much PCGS Kool-Aid.
It appears to me that PCGS has holdered far more AT/questionable modern proof coins than NGC has. >>
.........yes , they holder alot of fake stuff - But ; have you ever seen a Peace Dollar so
blatently fake in a PCGS slab ? >>
There's fake, and then, there's "blatantly" fake?
I'm not even going to read 15 pages of NGC bashing but what's the scoop on that awful pretty buffalo nickel in the PCGS book?
Coinguy1 says such stories don't matter but I think sometimes they do..>>
I can't find my original quote, but believe it was to the effect that I doubted the coin would have been submitted to and received by NGC along with a story. Whatever my comment, I did not mean to imply that "documentation" or "history" is never provided to the grading companies . My apologies if I gave that impression. However, my guess is that's quite uncommon and that when it does occur, it's much more likely to be in the event that a coin has already been rejected previously.
<< <i>"i would say the demon here is NGC - and they should be punished ;severly.
Don't even think for one cotton pickin' second that
PCGS would EVER slab this A.T'd piece of crap-
And you poofie's that are starting to imply it might be natural ;
i pity your ignorance "
Harsh words usually evidence a weak argument. >>
Harsh words yes - it is absolutly blood boiling to see this fake coin slabbed ;
weak or not ; the fact remains it's fake toned .
Me ? If i bought it and thought it to be real tone -i would have tried to cross it on a walkthru
to Pcgs .........then i would have tried to sell it for 20 k
Vietnam Vet 69-70 - Semper Fi
Vietnam Vet 69-70 - Semper Fi