Tired of Morgan VAMs! ! !

slipgate · February 15, 2006 9:47AM

Am I the only one that is tired of Morgan VAMs? I somewhat DO see the point, but still I must ask - what is the point? Take a look at this one Total who cares VAM. A tiny little dot.

WTFCs!!

Just my worthless 2 cents...

CalGold · February 15, 2006 9:50AM

Actually that's one of the more interesting ones I've seen. You can actually see it without a 30X stero microscope and it looks like a real intentionally made dot, as opposed to some die gouge, break or clash mark.

CG

jdsinva · February 15, 2006 9:54AM

<< WTFCs!! >>

Actually quite a few people. No, VAMs aren't for everyone but, hey, no one is twisting your arm. . .

VamGuy · February 15, 2006 9:54AM

Yeah, this VAM $hi! is a total waste of perfectly good internet space.

I wish you'd all just stop already.

eyoung429 · February 15, 2006 9:57AM

<< 

<< WTFCs!! >>

Actually quite a few people. No, VAMs aren't for everyone but, hey, no one is twisting your arm. . . >>

I will.........

moparsRULE · February 15, 2006 9:57AM

NO!!!
i just started learning about them .

eyoung429 · February 15, 2006 9:58AM

<< Yeah, this VAM $hi! is a total waste of perfectly good internet space.

I wish you'd all just stop already.

>>

Why, so that you can get all the good ones?

Peaceman · February 15, 2006 9:58AM

Glad you're not tired of Peace $ VAM's yet....

hiyosilver · February 15, 2006 9:58AM

moparsRULE · February 15, 2006 10:03AM

i like that .

wam98 · February 15, 2006 10:07AM

Tired of Morgan VAMs ?
.
No way. Having too much fun.

VamGuy · February 15, 2006 10:19AM

Keepin' the dream alive...

Has anybody ever found one of these?

coinkat · February 15, 2006 10:34AM

I no longer collect VAMS... or Morgans for that matter... but without a doubt, it is really the final frontier and the most interesting and fascinating area of collecting US Dollars. Don't be critical because you just might be collecting them in 5-10 years.

RobJoyce1921dVAMguy · February 15, 2006 11:52AM

Its the thrill of the hunt! Go to Baltimore this month and try to buy a rare morgan... I know there will be many 1893-S coins on the bourse and even an 1895 proof or two. Will you be able to buy one of those 1921 VAMs? Betcha' can't!

Rob

BrokenArrow · February 15, 2006 4:31PM

<< Its the thrill of the hunt! Go to Baltimore this month and try to buy a rare morgan... I know there will be many 1893-S coins on the bourse and even an 1895 proof or two. Will you be able to buy one of those 1921 VAMs? Betcha' can't!

Rob >>

Go to Baltimore this Month? When This Month? And for the Bam it works wonders on the scumb in the shower.

MAD4MORGANS · February 15, 2006 9:01PM

Yeah I agree. Morgan VAMs really suck...I really get tired of looking for them

1921obsession · February 16, 2006 12:43AM

Tired? Heck no, I'm not even done with 1921 yet, much less the rest of the issue.

messydesk · February 16, 2006 1:04AM

<< Its the thrill of the hunt! Go to Baltimore this month and try to buy a rare morgan... I know there will be many 1893-S coins on the bourse and even an 1895 proof or two. Will you be able to buy one of those 1921 VAMs? Betcha' can't!

Rob >>

Great! Now I'm not coming.

(Well, I probably wasn't, anyway.)

nesvt · February 16, 2006 2:38AM

Very Abnormal Morgans? Never heard of it.

mgoodm3 · February 16, 2006 2:41AM

I think that some VAMs are interesting, but some of the really subtle ones, like a dot are kinda humorous to me.

RSundermier · February 16, 2006 2:57AM

So a $57 Morgan sold for over $160 ..... That's good marketing.

Especially when the holder doesn't say anything about the VAM.
What happens when the heir gets those coins and knows nothing about
the VAM ... it gets sold for $50 on Sleezebay.

eyoung429 · February 16, 2006 3:20AM

1890 O comet:

1896 on its way to Mr. Allen:

1878 S - still working on her but most noticable:

1890 S - wreath break:

1921 P - on its way to Mr. Allen:

Wolf359 · February 16, 2006 3:45AM

Is this a bragging thread? OK, I'm in. Best example of a VAM-187, Doubled R, Hot 50 known:

VamGuy · February 16, 2006 4:28AM

<< So a $57 Morgan sold for over $160 ..... That's good marketing. >>

As the seller of the coin in question, I can say that marketing had absolutely nothing to do with the sale price. The premium paid for this coin was based solely on the VAM variety, and the market desirability of the variety at the time of sale. The listing was not hyped, not promoted, not "featured", and not mentioned on these forum boards until AFTER the listing closed.

<< Especially when the holder doesn't say anything about the VAM. >>

Please feel welcome to admonish PCGS for this. They do not attribute the VAM 58 (along with roughly 2,700 others), and therefore would not put the variety on the label no matter how much money I throw at them.

<< What happens when the heir gets those coins and knows nothing about
the VAM ... it gets sold for $50 on Sleezebay. >>

It is my personal business practice to put a label identifying the VAM variety on the front of every slab if it has not been attributed by a TPG. The sticker is added after the listing closes, and before the coin ships. This is done to not only assist the purchaser in keeping their VAM collection easily identifiable, but to help prevent the exact scenario you have presented.
Example provided:

morganvamclashie · February 16, 2006 6:17AM

I would like to start by saying 'to each his own'. You certainly have your right to not collect varieties, or for that matter to not collect at all. But let me share a few thoughts:

1) Why collect coins at all? They are simply a means of paying the bills, what is the point of collecting them? For most collectors it boils down to simple interest and rarity which also often creates added value. There are as many reasons to collect as there are collectors, but the reasons ususlly boil down to these three factors, interest, rarity, and value.

INTEREST

Variety collectors are looking for greater interest. And to some extent I would say nearly EVERY collector is a variety collector to at least some degree. Case in point? Mint marks. What seperates a 1909 S v.d.b. wheat penny from a 1909 penny? a simple mint mark and some very small designers initials.

RARITY

Admittedly a good portion of what has collectors so excited about the 1909 S vdb penny is that they understand that it is much harder to come by. The added rarity the variety adds to the pursuit of this coin helps to fuel the desire of so many collectors.

VALUE

With the added interest of additional design elements such as the 1909 S vdb over the 1909 penny, as well as the increase rarity of this particular variety, has seen the value of this particular coin climb steadily over the years. More people wanting to add this variety to their collection with fewer examples to go around creates one of the oldest principals in economics, SUPPLY AND DEMAND. Fewer examples spread over a wider base of potential buyers pushes the value up.

Now onto Morgan dollar varieties!!

This particular series has some of the most incredible varieties of ANY U.S. coin series. Morgan dollars are some of the largest coins produced by the U.S. so there details are easier to see compared to many other U.S. coins.

The silver content of the Morgan dollar often creates a wonderful luster to a well preserved coin adding to its incredible eye appeal.

The design to the Morgan dollar has some of the greatest detail of any U.S. series. With appologies to my Peace dollar VAM collectors, simply compare a Morgan dollar with its intricate detail to that of a Peace dollar. The sharper details of a Morgan dollar stands out.

I could go on and on in responce to why collecting VAM varieties is the way to go, but I think this is enough to think about for now. I will leave you with an analogy and then a few coins that tell the story as to why collect VAM varieties far greater than words can...

Most people that enjoy football are simply spectators. They enjoy the game from a distance, but they lack the skill, desire, and or opportunity to play the game. They recieve enjoyment out of watching others play the game, but that is as far as it goes.
Some play football in high school and get to actually play the game. They may recieve glory and the thrill of making a few great plays, or they may take a few bumps and bruises and never return to the field. At least they understand the game better and have a few stories of their own to tell. A rare talent may come along and be gifted enough to play at the next level in college. It may even pay their way through school so that they are not in debt coming out of college. They play at a much higher level due to their effort and skill. At the top of the heap however are those few people that have what it takes to play professionally. They have GOD given talent that they have worked on and developed over years of practice and experiance. Those individuals can make a career out of a few good years playing at the highest level. Even at that stage there are those few professionals who excel above the rest and make it to the Hall of Fame.

We each have a choice in what level we want to play. Those who collect VAM's want the thrill of the game to mean more that being a casual observer. We whan the thrill of making a big score, or finding that rare gem that may have been hidden to the untrained eye.

I grant you, most people are content with being spectators in life. If that is your case than taking a little more effort to look for the interesting and rare varieties in the Morgan dollar series may not be your thing. Nothing wrong with that, but then you may be cheeting yourself from a much more rewarding experiance.

Those of us who are VAM enthusiast tend to be of a TEAM mindset. Together Each Achieves More. The greater number of people who are tuned into VAM collecting, the more exciting things will be found to collect. I encourage you to join a wider world of interest and potential rewards of Morgan dollar variety collecting!!

Nuts, I can not post pics yet on my post as I am new to the forum.

If there is anyone interested in a few pics of some GREAT varieties simply send me an email at: mark_kimpton@hotmail.com. I have published a book "ELITE CLASHED MORGAN DOLLARS" That highlights some great Morgan dollar varieties.

Mark

Wolf359 · February 16, 2006 6:28AM

Great first post Mark. BTW, your book is very impressive and thank you for the proof copy!

I have that Unclashed 1878 14.1 for you to see in a PCGS 55 holder, will you be in Baltimore? Will
drop in mail if you prefer.

morganvamclashie · February 16, 2006 6:44AM

Hey Wolf359!!

I will be at the Baltimore show. I would love to get a close look at the VAM 14.1 without the clashing!!

As a side note I enjoy the vague Star Trek reference in your ID.

Drop me an email if you have a cell phone and I can give you a call at the Baltimore show to connect. Rob Joyce is planning on being there as well as several other serious VAMers

I will look forward to meeting you,

Mark

jdsinva · February 16, 2006 6:44AM

I guess he found out WTFC!!!!

morganvamclashie · February 16, 2006 6:47AM

I appreciate the kind words about the "ELITE CLASHED MORGAN DOLLARS" book Wolf359.

Mark

hiyosilver · February 16, 2006 6:48AM

"ELITE CLASHED MORGAN DOLLARS"

I`m looking forward to my copy of your book. Thanks Mark!

Manuel

chabot510 · February 16, 2006 6:48AM

one mans garbage is another treasure...

morganvamclashie · February 16, 2006 6:55AM

Hey Manuel,

The initial "Proof" "ELITE CLASHED MORGAN DOLLARS" books sold out in 3 weeks.

The next printing should be in the mail to you in roughly 2-3 weeks. I have been in contact with Sheridan publishing this week and everything is in order and under way. I appreciate your patients. I was hoping to have the order back by the FUN show, but the advertising help me up for several more weeks.

I will be in touch with you soon, and thanks again for the order!

Mark

VamGuy · February 16, 2006 7:14AM

Mark,

Welcome to the CU forum boards. I'm glad that you decided to join us. I hope that you will be able to participate on a regular basis considering your busy daily schedule.

Larry

13PacesEast · February 16, 2006 7:32AM

VAM's Disease.

Funny.

BlindedByEgo · February 16, 2006 7:45AM

I hate them too; please send all of your to me so that I can properly dispose of them

My VAM 1o

1921obsession · February 16, 2006 7:59AM

I hate them with the same unadulterated passionate hate an addict has for his needle. You know you should stay away, you know it'll just get you into trouble in the long term, but you have to go there anyways.

So how does an unknown, low-level addict like me manage to hook up with the more well-known experts to be present in Baltimore? I've a couple coins which I'd like to bounce off the eyes of someone with more knowledge than I, including the one I posted on the first page of this thread.

Wolf359 · February 16, 2006 8:10AM

1921obsession - If you'll be at the Baltimore Show Friday, just have Rob Joyce or myself paged on the overhead. Failing that, take them
to the ANACS table. If John Roberts is there, you'll do fine.

Jack Lee

jdsinva · February 16, 2006 8:12AM

<< 1878 S - still working on her but most noticable:

>>

If you can give me an image of the eagle's right wing, where it joins the leg, I might be able to give you a little help on that VAM.

BlindedByEgo · February 16, 2006 8:15AM

<< 

<< 1878 S - still working on her but most noticable:

>>

If you can give me an image of the eagle's right wing, where it joins the leg, I might be able to give you a little help on that VAM. >>

Great! I just found one of them, too. Curious.

jdsinva · February 16, 2006 8:17AM

<< 

<< 

<< 1878 S - still working on her but most noticable:

>>

If you can give me an image of the eagle's right wing, where it joins the leg, I might be able to give you a little help on that VAM. >>

Great! I just found one of them, too. Curious. >>

If it's an 1878-S, let's see the wing!

1921obsession · February 16, 2006 8:49AM

In the spirit of the Broken Star:

Broken star, check

Semi-broken r, check

Wing root, check (pic shot at an angle)

This coin was purchased as a VAM 35; methinks it's a correct attribution but there re so many Engraved Wing variants that I'm unsure. Either way, it's the single favorite in my collection if only because it photographs so well:

messydesk · February 16, 2006 8:57AM

<< I appreciate the kind words about the "ELITE CLASHED MORGAN DOLLARS" book Wolf359.

Mark >>

Welcome to the forum, Mark.

messydesk · February 16, 2006 9:05AM

<< This coin was purchased as a VAM 35; methinks it's a correct attribution but there re so many Engraved Wing variants that I'm unsure. Either way, it's the single favorite in my collection if only because it photographs so well:

>>

Not VAM 35. Engraved feather isn't quite a match, plus, you'd see this on the left obverse stars if it were a VAM 35 (I love this picture):

How about VAM 48?

1921obsession · February 16, 2006 9:12AM

<< 
Not VAM 35. Engraved feather isn't quite a match, plus, you'd see this on the left obverse stars if it were a VAM 35 (I love this picture):

How about VAM 48? >>

Right you are. The mintmark matches the description in the Encyclopedia. Just so you know, messydesk, I'm the person who just bought the 1R and 8A from you.

ibzman350 · February 16, 2006 9:30AM

Yeah, I'm tired of not knowing if this widgit has a VAM number assigned or not !!

Die chip on M and die gouge right side of ribbon........I drew the yellow line cause the pic doesn't show it well.

BTW..............this is the one I found..

Mr. Van Allens pics.

Herb

BlindedByEgo · February 16, 2006 9:37AM

<< Yeah, I'm tired of not knowing if this widgit has a VAM number assigned or not !!

Die chip on M and die gouge right side of ribbon........I drew the yellow line cause the pic doesn't show it well.

BTW..............this is the one I found..

Mr. Van Allens pics.

Herb

Blatant AT

jdsinva · February 16, 2006 10:26AM

<< In the spirit of the Broken Star: >>

It would appear your coin has the B2af reverse, found on 1878-S VAMs 48, 84 & 91 (I think 91 is the third VAM that shares the reverse).

eyoung429 · February 26, 2006 1:27PM

Sorry for the lag all. Was on vacation all week and returned to find my semi-new desktop fried and lost everything on it. Here are some pics from the rev.

rt wing

Nothing wrong with the R in trust

doubled liberty

lft wreath polish gouge

rt wreath polish lines

Waddya think?

jdsinva · February 27, 2006 2:31AM

<< Sorry for the lag all. Was on vacation all week and returned to find my semi-new desktop fried and lost everything on it. Here are some pics from the rev.

rt wing

Nothing wrong with the R in trust

doubled liberty

lft wreath polish gouge

rt wreath polish lines

Waddya think? >>

You have a variety with an unengraved wing, which usually end up to be a cool variety. I'll have to check my notes and such when I get home but I'm hoping this will be a fun coin!

Any unusual scratches in LIBERTY, wings or tail feathers? Sometimes they're not always noticeable unless you're specifically looking for them.

Thanks!

ziggy29 · February 27, 2006 2:52AM

<< Am I the only one that is tired of Morgan VAMs? I somewhat DO see the point, but still I must ask - what is the point? Take a look at this one Total who cares VAM. A tiny little dot.

WTFCs!!

Just my worthless 2 cents... >>

I'll bet a lot of the VAM guys wish there was less interest, too.

jdsinva · February 27, 2006 3:21AM

<< rt wing

lft wreath polish gouge

>>

After checking my notes at home, these two pictures tell me you have a VAM 17. You should see over polished hair below the monogram on the obverse. If your VAM 17 has these clash marks on the reverses, then you have the VAM 17A, one of the Super CD coins.

Tired of Morgan VAMs! ! !

Comments

Leave a Comment