ACG website claims PCGS uses PVC slab inserts

Coindexter · February 13, 2006 10:35AM

The ACG website says that the clear ring that PCGS puts around coins to adapt them to the slab is PVC and will eventually cause damage. I'm well aware of how dubious the source of this information is, but is there any truth to it?

dthigpen · February 13, 2006 10:35AM

<< The ACG website says that the clear ring that PCGS puts around coins to adapt them to the slab is PVC and will eventually cause damage. I'm well aware of how dubious the source of this information is, but is there any truth to it? >>

I hope ACG actually states this as fact, just so PCGS can sue them if it isn't true.

Russ · February 13, 2006 10:36AM

<< but is there any truth to it? >>

No.

Russ, NCNE

Russ · February 13, 2006 10:36AM

<< I hope ACG actually states this as fact, just so PCGS can sue them if it isn't true. >>

They don't. They carefully hint.

Russ, NCNE

AU58WALKERS · February 13, 2006 10:38AM

You should post this question on the Q & A forum for "HOMERUN" to answear.

DickyBetz · February 13, 2006 10:42AM

From the ACG website:

<< developed a course entitled "How To Become A Coin Dealer The Professional and Ethical Way." >>

BicentenBen · February 13, 2006 10:47AM

Maybe they were trying to complement PCGS by saying a coin in their slab causes PVC when the owner gets the coin back???

Wikipedia Link

mrearlygold · February 13, 2006 10:47AM

BECOKA · February 13, 2006 10:50AM

I can't wait for this to hit the courts and find out what is really going on.

Myqqy · February 13, 2006 11:22AM

Does anybody know how long acg has been making this insinuation?

Coindexter · February 13, 2006 1:37PM

Okay, click this, then click the "coins:" link. It will open an Adobe Acrobat document all about ACG. In the documnet the fourth big red "ACUGRADE" paragraph states "ACUGRADE uses individual dies for every coin size (54 different) at a cost of over $3000 per die. Our competitors use a PVC rubber washer or insert to cut the cost per washer to less than a quarter."

In this paragraph PCGS is not mentioned, but instead ACG says, "Our competitors." The paragraph before and the paragraph after both mention PCGS by name. This is the careful hint that Russ mentioned, careful enough that the first time I read it I thought it specifically said PCGS used PVC washers.

Edited to add: the next paragraph says:

"All other services use a soft rubber washer or an insert to cut cost which, over time (5 to 15 years), will leach PVC film onto the coin's surface, especially proofs."

"All other services" would certainly include PCGS, especially when they are named throughout the document. Are these fighting words?

Russ · February 14, 2006 2:13AM

PCGS might be able to make a case out of it, but why bother? ACG already has one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel.

Russ, NCNE

dthigpen · February 14, 2006 2:16AM

Well, the only real 'competitor' that ACG has are Coinworld Slabs.

Conder101 · February 14, 2006 5:58AM

I thnk the problem comes from many people thinking that any soft rubber or plastic is "PVC". This is because nobody bothers to learn what PVC is, or that the stuff on "PVC" contaminated coins is not PVC at all.

Kip · February 14, 2006 6:22AM

Oh, so thats where the PCGS milk spots come from?

Must be huh? they dont show up in my Mint plastic so it has to be ..tic

leothelyon · February 14, 2006 10:24AM

<< I thnk the problem comes from many people thinking that any soft rubber or plastic is "PVC". This is because nobody bothers to learn what PVC is, or that the stuff on "PVC" contaminated coins is not PVC at all. >>

Someone else has stated this but can't remember. So what's the test? Copper wire that has been flame cleaned. Then this wire is used to burn a small piece of the material, to be tested, in the torch flame. I can't remember what the color the flame will change into if there is PVC present. Is it green? But I was informed at one time that it wasn't PVC that changed the flame.

Leo

leothelyon · February 14, 2006 10:30AM

Do you know that the outside diameter of the PCGS and SEGS clear rings are exactly the same size!

I just thought that I would throw that out there..........but I did measure them!

Leo

oreville · February 14, 2006 10:31AM

<<<<<<<Someone else has stated this but can't remember. So what's the test? Copper wire that has been flame cleaned. Then this wire is used to burn a small piece of the material, to be tested, in the torch flame. I can't remember what the color the flame will change into if there is PVC present. Is it green? But I was informed at one time that it wasn't PVC that changed the flame.>>>>>>>

The copper wire is used to melt some of the stuff onto it plus a little extra for positive identification.

I have tested the PCGS round rubberized ring with the copper wire and put it into the strong blue flame of the propane burner numerous times over the years.

If the color turns green then there is PVC. I have never found PVC in the PCGS rubberized rings over the years.

Jcarney · February 14, 2006 10:31AM

That's been on the ACG site for a long, long time. I'm surprised that PCGS hasn't sent a cease and desist letter. The fact that they haven't, I guess, shows how seriously PCGS takes ACG.

leothelyon · February 14, 2006 10:35AM

<< <<<<<<<Someone else has stated this but can't remember. So what's the test? Copper wire that has been flame cleaned. Then this wire is used to burn a small piece of the material, to be tested, in the torch flame. I can't remember what the color the flame will change into if there is PVC present. Is it green? But I was informed at one time that it wasn't PVC that changed the flame.>>>>>>>

The copper wire is used to melt some of the stuff onto it plus a little extra for positive identification.

I have tested the PCGS round rubberized ring with the copper wire and put it into the strong blue flame of the propane burner numerous times over the years.

If the color turns green then there is PVC. I have never found PVC in the PCGS rubberized rings over the years. >>

Thanks Orv

I'll just put that propane torch away before I hurt myself!

Leo

Cameonut · February 14, 2006 10:49AM

Here is a link to test for halogens (chlorine in PVC for example) via the Bielstein Test

ccex · February 14, 2006 10:58AM

<< That's been on the ACG site for a long, long time. I'm surprised that PCGS hasn't sent a cease and desist letter. The fact that they haven't, I guess, shows how seriously PCGS takes ACG. >>

The ACG website used to brag about a six-figure amount they got PCGS to pay ACG as the inventors of a slab for professionally graded coins.

BillJones · February 14, 2006 11:12AM

<< 

<< The ACG website says that the clear ring that PCGS puts around coins to adapt them to the slab is PVC and will eventually cause damage. I'm well aware of how dubious the source of this information is, but is there any truth to it? >>

I hope ACG actually states this as fact, just so PCGS can sue them if it isn't true. >>

I agree.

I'd like to see someone sue ACG's pants off.

Barry · February 14, 2006 11:29AM

I'd like to see someone sue ACG's pants off.

After I was dropped from the original ACG lawsuit, I wanted to countersue them. Bottom line, my lawyer felt they had no pants left.

BillJones · February 14, 2006 12:20PM

I guess ACG must be like O.J. Simpson, broke but still dangerous.

Rusty4768 · February 14, 2006 12:22PM

Yeah i really do hope as well that someone will sue AGC.

mrearlygold · February 14, 2006 12:39PM

ACG website claims PCGS uses PVC slab inserts

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The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

My Jefferson Nickel Collection

The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

My Jefferson Nickel Collection

The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

My Jefferson Nickel Collection

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