The Doctor Is In! (Bear Bait)- Yet another blatant AT Franklin in an NGC slab.

bushmaster8 · January 20, 2006 12:54AM

This is getting out of hand! NGC is getting goofy!
Sure is purty though!

braddick · January 20, 2006 1:16AM

I've got a Kennedy half from the same doctor- same exact toning pattern along with those signature colors. It's in a PCI holder- RED label as "Questionable Toning".

Bailey1977 · January 20, 2006 1:29AM

fc · January 20, 2006 1:43AM

i will pay big bucks for that coin because of that wild toning! not.

IrishMike · January 20, 2006 1:48AM

I would bet that color as represented is nowhere close to the real color, look at the color of the slab and the hologram. Either they have been manipulated or just a bad photo.

braddick · January 20, 2006 1:51AM

If you're interested in getting some of these directly from the source.

CTcollector · January 20, 2006 2:03AM

This is really starting to turn into a Joke. Its not just Franklins. Its a sad state of curent affairs when TPG's bless these type of coins as market acceptable by putting them in their plastic. A star designation - no less. Consumer education on NT/AT is needed now more than ever. You can not count on the TPG's to properly screen this for you anymore.

Russ · January 20, 2006 2:04AM

It appears to have this coin cooker's characteristic thin layer of haze.

Russ, NCNE

fc · January 20, 2006 2:11AM

the pattern on the obverse was more than likely generated
by the surface it sat on during the AT process. almost like a teflon pan
pattern. different amounts of heat hitting the coin causing the pattern.

bushmaster8 · January 20, 2006 2:25AM

Anybody know who the seller (jeepiepoo) is?

I see he/she is in Chicagoland, so I have a clue at least.

Bear · January 20, 2006 2:45AM

If you want bear bait..............

you got to use jelly donuts.

CoinAddict · January 20, 2006 3:06AM

I saw that one the other day and thought about posting it. NGC really needs to get someone in there that can distinguish between AT and NT. To me that coin really raises red flags. It is really a shame.

Russ · January 20, 2006 3:08AM

<< NGC really needs to get someone in there that can distinguish between AT and NT. >>

PCGS and ANACS have both also holdered these coins.

Russ, NCNE

CoinAddict · January 20, 2006 4:11AM

Welll in that case they all three need to start monitoring the submissions better. Or at least check the ebay offerings to see what the scammers are coming out with.

SUPERCARCOINS · January 20, 2006 8:13AM

<< I would bet that color as represented is nowhere close to the real color, look at the color of the slab and the hologram. Either they have been manipulated or just a bad photo. >>

sorry brother , you'd loose the bet on this one ...........

we saw it IN HAND and it's just like the image , just as bright

and just as colorful

SUPERCARCOINS · January 20, 2006 8:15AM

Bushy ,

jeepeepoohpoo is Blueberry

xbob · January 20, 2006 8:19AM

It's fairly attractive for an AT coin if it didn't have that haze all over the reverse and the strange honeycomb pattern on the obverse. Byproduct of whatever method is being used perhaps?

What the heck is that honeycomb pattern from anyway?

SUPERCARCOINS · January 20, 2006 8:23AM

...i'd guess the plastic webbing it was laid on

BigD5 · January 20, 2006 8:23AM

<< I would bet that color as represented is nowhere close to the real color, look at the color of the slab and the hologram. Either they have been manipulated or just a bad photo. >>

Ditto. I bet that coin is fine. The saturation level on the image is off the charts making the color look stupid.

streeter · January 20, 2006 8:52AM

I wonder if the brillo pad that cleaned the obverse bottom get tossed in so as to make the deal complete?

edit: Toolhaus.org Negative/Neutral Feedback received by gototoningcoins

oh boy!!!!!

CTcollector · January 20, 2006 9:08AM

<< 

<< I would bet that color as represented is nowhere close to the real color, look at the color of the slab and the hologram. Either they have been manipulated or just a bad photo. >>

Ditto. I bet that coin is fine. The saturation level on the image is off the charts making the color look stupid. >>

You can look at that coin a hundred different ways and make a hundred different excuses- its AT any day of the week. Even if you were able to some way rationalize the color, what about the obverse honeycomb remnants ?? The only things I am aware of that make honeycombs in a natural environment are bees. I love NGC for what they offer the hobby, but they should be ashamed of themselves for letting something this obvious slip by. The AT problem is getting pervasively worse every day.....and it is not just NGC...

SUPERCARCOINS · January 20, 2006 9:10AM

<< 

<< I would bet that color as represented is nowhere close to the real color, look at the color of the slab and the hologram. Either they have been manipulated or just a bad photo. >>

Ditto. I bet that coin is fine. The saturation level on the image is off the charts making the color look stupid. >>

BIG D5 ; the coin looks almost exactly like the pix- you loose too !

SUPERCARCOINS · January 20, 2006 9:57AM

....don't get me wrong ; the thing's been worked by our famous local Doctor -

but it really looks like the pix !!!!

Sotty · January 20, 2006 10:22AM

$500 for that piece of junk? I wouldn't even pay $20 for it.
I love the rub on the cheek and scratches under the bust,
and full bell lines.I got better looking XF Franklins in my junk box.
Looks like a clad that was baked for an hour at 350 in an oven.

Moki · January 20, 2006 11:09AM

Are we sure the slab has not been cracked and an AT coin put in there? That happened to me about six months ago with an NGC slab on Ebay. The problem is, I didn't realize it until a few weeks ago . . . and I don't have any PayPal record of it, so I must of sent in a money order. Although I don't see any potential glue spots along the sides of the slab, IMO it may still be a possibility unless someone has really looked it over in person.

Sotty · January 20, 2006 2:59PM

He must have been drunk when he slipped
that AT into the holder.He put the reverse
showing in the front of the holder and the obverse
in the back.

brccoins · January 20, 2006 3:24PM

What a little heat wont do to a coin!

Moki · January 20, 2006 3:36PM

With the larger front and back slab pictures I can see cloudy white on the top and bottom of the slab on the obverse side which could be evidence of super glue.

Tampered Slabs

This particular post (June 4, 2003) from that thread talks about how easy and clean the NGC slabs come apart:

. . . All slabs except the PCGS ones(after the first gen) can be placed on a piece of leather, held on their sides by two fingers, rapped sharply close to one edge and then the other edge with a rubber mallet and they will pop exactly into along the seam. This is especially true with the NGC slabs. You can get at least 80 percent good breaks that way. Anyone can mess up a piece of plastic with screwdrivers, hammers, a vise or any number of other destructive ways. I throw mine away, but I cant speak for everyone. If I found this out by accident, imagine what someone who was actually trying to get a clean break could do!

May be a pretty good con! Like I said, I got taken by it once. . .

Myqqy · January 20, 2006 6:03PM

jeepeepoohpoo is Blueberry

If you know who this seller is (do they hang out with count chockula?), then you should ask them if ngc graded the coin as is, or if the slab was tampered with to insert the AT coin?

SUPERCARCOINS · January 20, 2006 11:22PM

............HE JUST GOT IT graded , the slab is not tampered with.

Can we assume , as intelligent people ; that anyone putting an A.T coin in a broken open holder -

might choose a holder with an insert that was MS-65 or higher ????

majorbigtime · January 21, 2006 6:00AM

<< It appears to have this coin cooker's characteristic thin layer of haze.

Russ, NCNE >>

maybe the're cooked in a smoker!

bushmaster8 · January 21, 2006 6:44AM

<< ...i'd guess the plastic webbing it was laid on >>

I was thinking maybe bubble wrap, but you are probably right. Like the plastic mesh they sometimes bag poultry in.

I reckon Blueberry just breathes on 'em. Some very active chemicals there!

.

Moki · January 21, 2006 9:24AM

Can we assume , as intelligent people ; that anyone putting an A.T coin in a broken open holder might choose a holder with an insert that was MS-65 or higher ????

If he gets $500 out of it, I don't suppose it will matter.

eagle7 · January 21, 2006 10:12AM

MOKI, you are right on the money. The NGC slab is sooo easy to break open and then reseal and have look like nothing has happened. I will bet anyone 100 dollars that if that coin were bought, then broken out and sent to NGC for grading raw, it would come back as Questionable toning. I will pay up if it does not.

FatMan · January 21, 2006 11:06AM

NGC screwed the pooch on this one. AT all the way.

Too many of these are getting into slabs today. And just to dilute the Kool-Aid a bit, they are getting into PCGS holders too.

JoshL · January 21, 2006 11:26AM

Quote "CAUTION : This Coin Looks Radioactive"

Because it is!!!

MadMarty · January 21, 2006 11:35AM

I also have seen the coin in hand. The seller or the person who had it slabbed has had them done at NGC and PCGS. I didn't know he sold on E-Bay? Maybe he sold the coin to the current seller!

coinguy1 · January 21, 2006 11:46AM

<< The NGC slab is sooo easy to break open and then reseal and have look like nothing has happened >>

That has not been the case since NGC changed the plastic in their holders (I think it's been a couple of years now) in order to make them "tamper evident". Try breaking one of them open.

Russ · January 21, 2006 11:51AM

<< << The NGC slab is sooo easy to break open and then reseal and have look like nothing has happened >>

That has not been the case since NGC changed the plastic in their holders (I think it's been a couple of years now) in order to make them "tamper evident". Try breaking one of them open. >>

It really depends on the hammer shot - even with new ones. If you happen to hit exactly right, the seam will split evenly all the way around the slab.

Russ, NCNE

The Doctor Is In! (Bear Bait)- Yet another blatant AT Franklin in an NGC slab.

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