David Lawrence Star Rating Method (4*****)

FatMan · January 17, 2006 1:26PM

I have never purchased from DLRC in the past and I am not very impressed with their images when it comes to color. They pour the lighting on so you can see the technical aspects pretty well but when it comes to eye appeal I can't read the images.

They have created a rating method for toning and eye appeal. How accurate is the star rating. I guess my direct question is if the coin has 5 stars (highest rating) what kind of look should I expect. More specific the coin in question is rated "4*****"

Thanks in advance for your input.

fc · January 17, 2006 1:40PM

i have bought two coins from them.

5 star means to them technically superior for the grade.
most only have 4 stars as you may notice.

the 4 stands for how dark it is, AKA original in some sense.

1 is light, dipped, washed out OR lusterous and beautiful. heh.

4 must be down and dirty OR down and dirty with luster underneath.

the two coins i bought were 1**** and 2****.
the first was the 1857S and the second was the 1897S.
i will check to make sure. yup. notice how the 1897S has something
going on worthy of color ranking "2". The 1857S is paler, thus a "1".

Both are **** for being, ah, not bad, just ok.
*** must plain suck.

Cladiator · January 17, 2006 1:42PM

The system works good when you know how to interpret it and their pics. Their images to lack a bit in color. Once you figure it out many very PQ coins can be found at DLRC.

GAT · January 17, 2006 1:43PM

Their rating system goes from one star to five with one having the highest eye appeal. I would expect a unappealing dog with a four star coin.

Edit to add: Think I have the eye appeal mixed up with the star system, sorry.

EJB · January 17, 2006 1:44PM

.............. I love them.....Never had a problem.....If you don't like it send it back..........Got one today and loved it....................

.....Also 1 2 3 4 5 Toning, stars are eye appeal.....never had a problem...............

fc · January 17, 2006 1:45PM

gat,

5 stars is tops. i dont think i ever saw less than 3.

i can be wrong.. but.. i think not.

FatMan · January 17, 2006 1:59PM

Thanks for all the replies. I understand the premise of the rating system, my question is if DLRC rates a coin five stars what should I expect. Will it be a drop dead gorgeous coin or marginally nice or is the five star rating just a sales pitch. What about their descriptions. For the coin in question it is described as follows:

Beautiful aqua-blue album toning. Stong mint luster in tougher grade. Great look. Just 25 graded higher at NGC.

My issue is that I would most likely not buy the coin based upon the image, so what weight should I place on the rating and the text.

fc · January 17, 2006 2:03PM

i feel that it should be slightly more appealing in hand, due to the
*****, but by no means would i bet the farm on it.

The description sounds great for an XF with great toning.
But AU? heh.

good luck.

fc · January 17, 2006 2:05PM

fatman,

you cannot show the coin to gather opinions because of all
the snipers and what not that haunt this forum?

stman · January 17, 2006 2:08PM

Here's what I do, and I can only speak for Bust halves since that's all I have purchased from them. I'm a 4 kinda guy (down and dirty) and since they use a scanner this is a good thing for me. Why? Because since I still use a scanner I can get a good feel for what it will look like in person.

Let's say it's a mid AU Bust half. I take it into the image editor, add a bit of saturation, a bit of contrast, and when I've received I was pretty much dead on. With the exception of luster of course. As with all the dealers selling these days, be careful what they call "Original." While they used to be OK with this.... just like the majority out there they are now stretching this too far. I received one in a, OMG PCGS holder, and the former green tag holder too (I hate that OGH term

) I could not get any kind of cartwheel and the coin had clearly been cleaned with secondary toning. Not dipped.... cleaned.

The customer service there is great as they got the coin immediately back, and issued an immediate refund. Probably no help, but I tried Sir!

EJB · January 17, 2006 2:11PM

..................Got a Morgan 1884 cc today....1 ***** the coin was 64 and the frost was so nice it looked cam...and yes I loved it........

FatMan · January 17, 2006 2:12PM

<< fatman,
you cannot show the coin to gather opinions because of all
the snipers and what not that haunt this forum? >>

Sure I can. I already won it last night in thier internet auction. I broke all my rules about buying coins without seeing it in hand. But the description and rating system was somewhat re-assuring, as well as the return policy. And the price was right.

I chose to not post the image originally becase I did not want the pic to influence the replies. Here's the pic. The toning pattern could be fantastic if it has the correct coloring.

airplanenut · January 17, 2006 2:13PM

John,

The best suggestion I can make is to call them. Last time I couldn't tell, I called them up, and someone went to grab the coins I was interested in. He spent a good amount of time on each one, covering the lustre, marks, color, etc. When the coins arrived, his description was right on.

Jeremy

MikeInFL · January 17, 2006 2:14PM

I have had good luck with five star coins, but I haven't bought enough to tell for sure...Mike

fc · January 17, 2006 2:17PM

fatman,

that is a tough call. i have no idea what i would expect.
but a NGC 66 has to be somewhat pleasing right???
i wonder what the colors will be.. hm. no star. hm.

stman · January 17, 2006 2:23PM

I think I would like that coin if I were the buyer. The colors should be the same, except they should be richer/deeper and more vibrant.
With flashy luster. That's my take on it.

Edit to add.... now whether it meets your expectations for the grade is another matter. It IS an "NGC Coin" ya know. Heh

EJB · January 17, 2006 2:31PM

.........Hope I don't sound like a kiss ass, I do like them but never recieved one of there discount coupons.......I know they give them out, but to who...........

Touchdown · January 17, 2006 2:36PM

In my experiences their rating seems very honest. Also, I have returned coins with no problems and no hassles.

Blade · January 17, 2006 2:36PM

100% return guarantee - no questions asked and they even pay for the postage on their end. It's a no brainer to take a shot at something. Agree with Jeremy, they will help on the phone and have even not recommended something to me after I told them what I was looking for. BUT they do consider all slabbed coins market acceptable, so they will assume dipped/stripped is ok with you unless you tell them otherwise.

Great company. If they say it is a high eye appeal coin, it probably is.

FatMan · January 17, 2006 2:43PM

<< I think I would like that coin if I were the buyer. The colors should be the same, except they should be richer/deeper and more vibrant.
With flashy luster. That's my take on it.

Edit to add.... now whether it meets your expectations for the grade is another matter. It IS an "NGC Coin" ya know. Heh >>

Yeah, figured you would like this one. If it has flashy luster it will have a great look. That could be the key. As for being NGC holdered, I forgot to drink my Kool-Aid. Must be old age. I will be more careful in the future.

ER · January 17, 2006 2:48PM

If you like their scanned pics, you will like the coin in hand even more. That has generally been my experience with them.

FatMan · January 17, 2006 2:54PM

<< If you like their scanned pics, you will like the coin in hand even more. That has generally been my experience with them. >>

Well, that's the rub. I'm not a fan of the image. If the coin looks like that in hand it is on its way back. The image does not suggest a five star highest eye appeal rating. If the coin has beautiful aqua blue toning with strong luster as stated in the written description it will definitely be a keeper.

fc · January 17, 2006 2:57PM

so if the "NGC coin" has the marks of a "fatman 65" underneath
that beautiful toning, is it still a keeper?

FatMan · January 17, 2006 3:11PM

<< so if the "NGC coin" has the marks of a "fatman 65" underneath
that beautiful toning, is it still a keeper? >>

fc, you seem to have some cynicism when it comes to toning. Certainly the grade will be assessed, but that would be true of any coin, toned or untoned. If the coin doesn't live up to the grade it will be returned. But my foremost concern is the look. It could be a MS69, but if the look ain't right its going back.

fc · January 17, 2006 3:24PM

fatman,

I am not sure of the pops of this coin, but if it was blast white,
a MS66 is quite nice. We would judge it much more critically i reckon.

I am wondering, if the coins has that look, via toning, will you be
more forgiving if the coins has the hits of a 65.

I think you misjudged my post a bit.

FatMan · January 17, 2006 3:34PM

<< fatman,

I am not sure of the pops of this coin, but if it was blast white,
a MS66 is quite nice. We would judge it much more critically i reckon.

I am wondering, if the coins has that look, via toning, will you be
more forgiving if the coins has the hits of a 65.

I think you misjudged my post a bit. >>

Sorry if I read something into your post that wasn't there.

If the coin has the look there is a good chance it may very well have the marks of a 65.5. All grading services are Market Grading today. Therefore "the look" will get the bump. I am not a fan of market grading, but I have learned to live with it. All this speculation is the exact reason why buying coins on line is not for me. The uncertainty is driving me crazy. It will be awhile before I break my rule again.

ER · January 17, 2006 3:37PM

Fats, here an example of DLRC's scan versus my scan (my ex-1795 FH dollar). They labeled it as a 4***** coin, but you'd probably ask yourself, "five stars?". It took me less than 5 minutes of tweaking to bring out the accurate image of the coin.

Ed62 · January 17, 2006 7:54PM

Doesn't that Grant have a hit on the beard/cheek and another on the lower ear?

And it is a 66?

PerryHall · January 17, 2006 9:12PM

Their web site explains their number and star system. If you are interested in a coin call them and ask questions. They are a good company and they do take returns.

LeeG · January 17, 2006 10:00PM

FatMan I purchased a Proof Lincoln from DLRC recently that was given a "3" rating. I could see some color in their flat looking scan of the coin. Coin had lustre and vibrant color's in hand. I think you'll be happy.

Let us see your pic when you have the coin "In Hand"!

FatMan · January 18, 2006 12:11AM

Thanks for all the replies. It appears based upon what has been written here and what I have received privately in PMs that there is a wide variance in opinion as too the accuracy of the star system. The consensus however is that DLRC is a very reputable dealer and accepts returns easily with no questions.

In browsing the auction offerings, I move very quickly because their imaging makes every coin look lifeless. I would have normally moved quickly past this Grant but the star rating and description combined with DLRC's reputation got the best of me and I placed a reasonable bid. The coin's toning pattern has potential, so I am hoping when DLRC says it has the look, it has the look in hand. Although I take my auction bids very seriously, I only place the bid because of the assurance I can return the coin. This is an auction so I hope that a return is not necessary because doing so is very unfair to any under bidders. However, I bought the coin based upon the star rating and description so if the coin doesn't live up to the billing it will be returned.

TomB · January 18, 2006 10:42AM

My experience with DLRC is that the company has high customer service standards and that John Feigenbaum has personal integrity. That aside, their scanned images blow and you have to be able to interpret them correctly, as stman has pointed out. It helps me that I have scanned hundreds of mint state and circulated coins so I rarely have a "surprise" with the look of a coin.

I have never bid in one of their auctions, but have bought a handful of very nice coins from them. They have also listed coins with as few as two stars on ocassion, but this is quite unusual. In my opinion, I don't believe I have ever returned to them a five star coin, but a four star coin has been returned. I realize you do not have the coin in-hand yet, but I don't think this would be a keeper for me, hopefully you have good luck with it. Here is a 1794 half in VF20 that I purchased from them and it was also rated 4*****

mozin · December 1, 2006 4:55PM

I find DLRC auction lot descriptions too short, and lacking in necessary details. Black planchet spots that do not show in their pictures should be mentioned, and "nice surfaces" should mean what it says. I will never again bid on a David Lawrence coin unless it has a five star ***** rating.

D · December 1, 2006 5:05PM

Six Stars...

-D

David Lawrence Star Rating Method (4*****)

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