honest seller auctioning fake half eagle, it looks so real!

fc · January 1, 2006 4:32AM

i found this auction interesting. Does not the coin look legit?
someone went to a lot of trouble to make that...

and does anyone truly think it is mainly made up of gold? Will
PCGS tell you such details?

Here is the auction -> fake half eagle

I thought I would share.. It is a great reminder to me not to buy raw from ebay. One screw up will cost me.

edited to add: is there something one can spot from the pics that
tells them it is fake?

my3cents · January 1, 2006 4:36AM

Item Specifics - US Coins
Certification: Certified Method of Manufacture: artist/crooks
Mint: --
Material: Gold

TheRaven · January 1, 2006 4:36AM

I only purchase classic gold coins certified by PCGS, but that is me.....

Russ · January 1, 2006 4:37AM

<< Method of Manufacture: artist/crooks >>

It would sure fool me.

Russ, NCNE

RYK · January 1, 2006 4:40AM

I might just buy that. It would be cool to have a fake.

fc · January 1, 2006 4:42AM

ryk,

i was thinking the same thing. slip it in during submissions in the
future just to see if PCGS would slab it.

heck, maybe it is real? graders are known to make mistakes right?
but two graders out of 3? somehow i doubt that.

DaveG · January 1, 2006 4:44AM

If you're interested in counterfeit gold coins that were made to take advantage of the price difference between gold bullion and coins (i.e., not contemporary counterfeits and not counterfeits of rare coins), then you might want to read "Detecting Counterfeit Gold Coins" by "Lonesome John".

I think that the "common wisdom" about these types of counterfeits is that most of them were originally made in the Middle East in the 50s and 60s and are common-date coins. As I mentioned, they were made to profit from the price difference between gold bullion and gold coins, so they're almost all of the proper gold content. The most counterfeited US coins seem to be gold dollars, quarter eagles, three-dollar pieces and half eagles. (Of course, sovereigns and 20 Franc pieces were also counterfeited, especially sovereigns.)

Generally speaking, these counterfeits look almost "too good", which is one way to tell they're fake - no bag marks of any sort, for example. Also, the fine details (dentils, the edge reeds, etc.) will be weak or "odd" looking. You should also see some blemishes and odd raised lumps, etc. - the signs of an electrotype.

Russ · January 1, 2006 4:47AM

<< graders are known to make mistakes right?
but two graders out of 3? >>

I'm not sure how likely it would be for counterfeits, but they frequently make mistakes on things like cleaning, altered surfaces, and toning.

Russ, NCNE

DaveG · January 1, 2006 4:57AM

I've been told that the really good US gold coin graders can tell you where and approximately when a gold coin was minted just by looking at the color of the coin. (Obviously, this skill also helps them tell if a coin has been chemically "processed".) I've also been told that they can spot counterfeit gold coin because they look "wrong".

tjkillian · January 1, 2006 5:00AM

<< I might just buy that. It would be cool to have a fake. >>

I would also like to have a nice counterfeit. At least this piece you can be almost certain that it is a counterfeit.

Tom

PerryHall · January 1, 2006 5:18AM

<< I would also like to have a nice counterfeit. At least this piece you can be almost certain that it is a counterfeit.

Tom >>

Buy raw gold on eBay and your wish will be granted fairly soon.

majorbigtime · January 1, 2006 5:44AM

<< 

<< graders are known to make mistakes right?
but two graders out of 3? >>

I'm not sure how likely it would be for counterfeits, but they frequently make mistakes on things like cleaning, altered surfaces, and toning.

Russ, NCNE >>

But you always can rely on the nebulous guaranty of authenticity (sic)

Conder101 · January 1, 2006 2:45PM

<< << graders are known to make mistakes right?
but two graders out of 3? >>

<< 
I'm not sure but I believe that if one grader sees something that immediately bodybags the coin (and counterfeit would do that) it goes straight to the bodybag and isn't reviewed by the other two graders.

xbob · January 1, 2006 2:55PM

Cheers to the seller for honesty!

Let's hope the buyer is as well. What are the chances this one will resurface on ebay without the "little detail"?

TwoSides2aCoin · January 1, 2006 4:11PM

xbob,

this is precisely why the counterfeits I've been passed were shipped to the ANA for purposes of teaching. One still gets the "write-off" by filling out a "Deed of Gift" with the submission.

Inspite of the honesty of the seller, this coin should not be surfacing AT ALL.... at least not in ebay under "US COINS".... maybe under a different category, but surely not "US COINS".

xbob · January 2, 2006 4:12AM

Good point 2sides. An ANA donation sounds like good advice for the seller and anyone in his situation.

I thought I had read once on this forum that it was illegal to sell a counterfeit and the Secret Service could confiscate it. I guess they would have to know about it first. Wonder if they scan eBay now and then?

This coin obviously is missing the legal requirement of COPY stamped on it somewhere. It's meant to deceive.

streeter · January 2, 2006 4:18AM

Looking at the 7 in the date...it just looks wrong to me.

fc · January 2, 2006 4:24AM

streeter,

interesting you said that because that caught my eye at first!

but here is a pic of an 1897S and that seven sure looks similiar
in shape. maybe the angle of the picture is throwing us off?

PerryHall · January 2, 2006 4:31AM

The false dies used to strike counterfeits are made from genuine coins using a reduction lathe, electrical discharge machining, or a casting technique so a fake coin should look very much the same as a real coin (just a little less detail). The era of hand engraved dies have been over for many years.

streeter · January 2, 2006 4:41AM

<<The false dies used to strike counterfeits are made from genuine coins using a reduction lathe, electrical discharge machining, or a casting technique so a fake coin should look very much the same as a real coin (just a little less detail). The era of hand engraved dies have been over for many years. >>

Perry...have you seen the 1899 $10 pieces out there? The 9's are clearly not correct.

Edit: if it was priced at bullion net I'd buy it and try to post big pics for 4fun . It is the location of the 7 that is off.

PerryHall · January 2, 2006 5:37AM

There is still trash counterfeits being produced, especially out of china. I'm speaking of the quality counterfeits being produced to fool collectors rather than souvenier buying tourists.

sellsatan · January 2, 2006 5:58AM

What immediately raised my eyebrow about this auction is that if you list a coin or currency auction on eBay there is a big banner right before final listing that says something like "Do you certify that this coin or currency is genuine?" You have to click "yes" for the auction to be listed. So we're all looking at a genuine conterfeit I guess.

topstuf · January 2, 2006 6:19AM

Actually, the angle of the coin helps to see that it's fake. It has that fluidy, softy, melty look. No way to describe, but lots of those and quarter eagles have the same look. The reverse is more deceiving than the obverse.

Sorta like no difference in luster between devices and field.

honest seller auctioning fake half eagle, it looks so real!

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