The nice rip I almost made...
coppercoins
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At the Baltimore show on Friday I was just parting with Stewart Blay to go roam around for a bit, and the conversation I had with him made me look around the floor a bit at some coins that were realisticaly out of my price range. I just wanted to see if I could realistically find something that would really grade higher than what the holder said. Here's the story:
I walked no more than 50 feet from the front door of the show after coming back from lunch and decided I would dream a little looking at high value copper to see if there was anything around I could pretend buying for a big profit. I knew what I needed to look for and knew which holders to look for them in...because when it comes to copper I like to consider myself at least a little informed and universally versed in them. I knew the best chance of finding a profit would be in Indian cent proofs in either ANACS or older PCGS holders.
The first table sported an 1883 in a blue PCGS PR65 holder. The coin was a nice lock 66 on the obverse, but when I flipped the coin over I could see why it had received the 65 grade - a few spots here and there on the wreath, although not blatently obvious, took the coin out of 66 status in my opinion, and probably that of the graders as well.
At the same table was a 1907 in a blue PCGS PR66 holder. Again, about the same story. A few minor hairlines right on the cheek and some blotching on the reverse took the coin out of what I would honestly call a 66. On to the next table.
The second table didn't have any Indian proofs, but there was a nice RB 1909S Indian in an ANACS 63RB holder. I asked to see the coin, and was amazed that the reverse looked just as nice as the obverse...the coin was a no-brainer 64RB with a slight chance of garnering a PCGS 65RB grade. The only thing I could see that knocked it out of 65RB status might have been that the planchet had some striping that made the color a little sharper in contrast than I was comfortable with. I asked the guy how much he wanted for the coin, and he replied with $1000. I was quick to grab my CDN - indian prices would be one thing I definitely don't know. To my surprise - or not - I looked in the sheet and saw a 63 ask of $825 and a 64 ask of $1025. Crap...even though the holder was a 63 holder, the coin was priced accordingly at 64 money. Bummer. On to the next table.
You can get the idea that no matter what I looked at and where I looked for it, I always ran into coins that were either already accurately graded (or in some cases overgraded) or the dealers were wise to the situation and had the undergraded coins priced according to their critical mass grades. I didn't find anything with half an hour of searching that even might go into a higher holder at a profit.
Now this is the first time I have ever really tried this little experiment because I don't have the money to buy these little gems even if I do find something that's a lock higher coin - which I guess would be an exercise in self torture even if I did find them...but as I saw it, the coins I saw had either already been played to their potential or had no potential to begin with (ugly coins).
This post has no real point other than to make an observation - since I had never even considered dropping a grand on any single coin, I also had never given myself the opportunity to look at them with any serious expectation of buying them...but given a chance with a wad of cash I wouldn't have scored in Balimore anyway because the loose ends seemed to all be tied up already.
I'll try this again at FUN, partly because I had fun with my little experiment, but also partly because I will be there with a friend who just may have the money to play with if I do find something good. I'll report again after FUN - we'll see what happens.
I walked no more than 50 feet from the front door of the show after coming back from lunch and decided I would dream a little looking at high value copper to see if there was anything around I could pretend buying for a big profit. I knew what I needed to look for and knew which holders to look for them in...because when it comes to copper I like to consider myself at least a little informed and universally versed in them. I knew the best chance of finding a profit would be in Indian cent proofs in either ANACS or older PCGS holders.
The first table sported an 1883 in a blue PCGS PR65 holder. The coin was a nice lock 66 on the obverse, but when I flipped the coin over I could see why it had received the 65 grade - a few spots here and there on the wreath, although not blatently obvious, took the coin out of 66 status in my opinion, and probably that of the graders as well.
At the same table was a 1907 in a blue PCGS PR66 holder. Again, about the same story. A few minor hairlines right on the cheek and some blotching on the reverse took the coin out of what I would honestly call a 66. On to the next table.
The second table didn't have any Indian proofs, but there was a nice RB 1909S Indian in an ANACS 63RB holder. I asked to see the coin, and was amazed that the reverse looked just as nice as the obverse...the coin was a no-brainer 64RB with a slight chance of garnering a PCGS 65RB grade. The only thing I could see that knocked it out of 65RB status might have been that the planchet had some striping that made the color a little sharper in contrast than I was comfortable with. I asked the guy how much he wanted for the coin, and he replied with $1000. I was quick to grab my CDN - indian prices would be one thing I definitely don't know. To my surprise - or not - I looked in the sheet and saw a 63 ask of $825 and a 64 ask of $1025. Crap...even though the holder was a 63 holder, the coin was priced accordingly at 64 money. Bummer. On to the next table.
You can get the idea that no matter what I looked at and where I looked for it, I always ran into coins that were either already accurately graded (or in some cases overgraded) or the dealers were wise to the situation and had the undergraded coins priced according to their critical mass grades. I didn't find anything with half an hour of searching that even might go into a higher holder at a profit.
Now this is the first time I have ever really tried this little experiment because I don't have the money to buy these little gems even if I do find something that's a lock higher coin - which I guess would be an exercise in self torture even if I did find them...but as I saw it, the coins I saw had either already been played to their potential or had no potential to begin with (ugly coins).
This post has no real point other than to make an observation - since I had never even considered dropping a grand on any single coin, I also had never given myself the opportunity to look at them with any serious expectation of buying them...but given a chance with a wad of cash I wouldn't have scored in Balimore anyway because the loose ends seemed to all be tied up already.
I'll try this again at FUN, partly because I had fun with my little experiment, but also partly because I will be there with a friend who just may have the money to play with if I do find something good. I'll report again after FUN - we'll see what happens.
C. D. Daughtrey, NLG
The Lincoln cent store:
http://www.lincolncent.com
My numismatic art work:
http://www.cdaughtrey.com
USAF veteran, 1986-1996 :: support our troops - the American way.
The Lincoln cent store:
http://www.lincolncent.com
My numismatic art work:
http://www.cdaughtrey.com
USAF veteran, 1986-1996 :: support our troops - the American way.
0
Comments
GOOD story
My Auctions
“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” Mark Twain
Newmismatist
<< <i>another good example of buy the coin, not the holder...
GOOD story
Interesting experiment. Please post the results from FUN.
W.C. Fields
<< <i>Well Chuck, they're out there. I've bought a dozen Proof IHCs in the past 2 weeks and they are all PQ for the grade - one has already upgraded (the only one that I've submitted). >>
Congrats - and I'll probably find at least a few of them with a little better than 30 minutes of patience and a pure whim to look at them. I know a number of people have made some pretty good money dealing in the higher end coins, and even though I'm very thick skulled, I have finally realized that's where I'm going to have to turn if I want to be able to afford and keep any of them - turn some then use the profit to build a choice collection. Searching die varieties is somewhat profitable and at least somewhat fun, but it doesn't offer much for bringing in the money it takes to rake in nice registry quality coins without having to outsource funds to do so.
The Lincoln cent store:
http://www.lincolncent.com
My numismatic art work:
http://www.cdaughtrey.com
USAF veteran, 1986-1996 :: support our troops - the American way.
I'd say this was a case of not buying the coin or the holder.
This whole story is typical of what I experienced at most of the Baltimore shows I attended. Go to the auctions, and get your fair-market priced coins there. Basically forget about the floor, because things get picked over quickly, leaving the overpriced coins on the dealers' tables. Some dealers complain that they don't do well on the retail days, but when everything on their table is either low-end for the assigned grade, or priced 40% over Ask, I don't see why they should expect to sell anything. There were several times when I went to that show and didn't buy anything, which is unusual for me.
<< <i>another good example of buy the coin, not the holder...
I'd say this was a case of not buying the coin or the holder.
This whole story is typical of what I experienced at most of the Baltimore shows I attended. Go to the auctions, and get your fair-market priced coins there. Basically forget about the floor, because things get picked over quickly, leaving the overpriced coins on the dealers' tables. Some dealers complain that they don't do well on the retail days, but when everything on their table is either low-end for the assigned grade, or priced 40% over Ask, I don't see why they should expect to sell anything. There were several times when I went to that show and didn't buy anything, which is unusual for me. >>
Rhedden, your post makes a lot of sense....and made a lightbulb go off for me....
Last FUN ('05), I went with ~$3000 cash looking for either a nice (and correctly priced) 1955/55 or 1909s-vdb. Grades varied for what I would accept (generally, XF-MS63RB).
Using the 1955/55 as my example, I saw no fewer than 15 of them in that range. However, they were lowend for the grade or vastly overpriced. I went to Dennis (JadeRareCoins) and bought a few hundred dollars of older material because I HAD to buy something, but I still left FUN with almost the entire amount I went there with.
I didn't even think of the reason you mentioned above, but it really does make sense. Next major show I go to (likely to be Long Beach), I will try to follow your advice (though, I haven't been to a major auction yet, so not sure I will jump in with both feet
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Very funny. At the last Baltimore show I attended, I found NOTHING, so I went to Dennis and bought a 1796 large cent that was a duplicate for my own collection, then left.