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Grading Experiment...

TrinkettsTrinketts Posts: 1,699 ✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
I am going to have my own little grading experiment... This is in direct relation to my latest let down of grades that I cracked out from NGC and sent to PCGS.
This may cost me a little money but I want to make a point. I already have 5 coins what were cracked out of NGC holders that were all in MS condition... I am going to get a few more NGC slabbed coins(off teletrade) and do the same.

1.These are not all going to be inexpensive(under $100) coins... some of the ones I have cracked out now are $400+

2.The coins will all not be the same series.... some buffalo nickels, busties(dime, half cent), morgans, and others

3.I have the images of the coins in their NGC holder and keeping them.

How many would like to guess the number out of the 10 crack outs I am going to send in will grade lower than the NGC grade.

By the way I will not be intentionally looking for NGC overgrades.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing about. -Benjamin Franklin-

Comments

  • ttownttown Posts: 4,472 ✭✭✭
    Depends. How good are you at buying the coin and not the holder, many just look at the holder and figure they got a deal on the coin and wonder why they brought it so cheap.image

    Maybe you should show the board a picture of the coins before you break them out and judge the quality of the coins first.
  • TrinkettsTrinketts Posts: 1,699 ✭
    Here are some of them now

    1914-S Buffalo

    1916-S Buffalo

    1938-D Buffalo

    1835 Half Cent

    1889 Morgan
    Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing about. -Benjamin Franklin-
  • mercurydimeguymercurydimeguy Posts: 4,625 ✭✭✭✭


    My prediction -- you will make your point.

    My question -- so what?

    I and about 1000 other people have made your point before.

    Save some time and money, and we'll concede that you'll make your point image

  • TrinkettsTrinketts Posts: 1,699 ✭
    But here is the true question.... I know we are supposed to buy the coin and I agree..... But is NGC being accurate or PCGS?
    Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing about. -Benjamin Franklin-
  • coinfreak499coinfreak499 Posts: 1,720
    Before I make my statement, how did you choose the coins for this experiment?


    imageimage
  • mercurydimeguymercurydimeguy Posts: 4,625 ✭✭✭✭

    But here is the true question.... I know we are supposed to buy the coin and I agree..... But is NGC being accurate or PCGS?

    Neither and both at the same time. There is no "absolute" sense of the word accuracy in terms of grading because it is subjective.

    Both companies grade to different standards and look for different things. I've had NGC coins score 3 points higher (from 64 to 67) at PCGS and I've had NGC coins get bagged at PCGS. I've had PCGS coins get bagged on a crackout and resubmission back to PCGS only to grade 2 points higher on a subsequent resubmission.

    So, save your own money. You're right and you will prove your point, but unfortunately the only thing you'll accomplish is spending some money and putting it in to Revenue line of the TPG.

  • TrinkettsTrinketts Posts: 1,699 ✭
    Well,, the two early teen buffalos and the 2 1835 busties are for my personal collections...

    the 1938 was pretty low priced and the morgan had nice rim toning
    Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing about. -Benjamin Franklin-
  • TrinkettsTrinketts Posts: 1,699 ✭


    << <i>But here is the true question.... I know we are supposed to buy the coin and I agree..... But is NGC being accurate or PCGS?

    Neither and both at the same time. There is no "absolute" sense of the word accuracy in terms of grading because it is subjective.

    Both companies grade to different standards and look for different things. I've had NGC coins score 3 points higher (from 64 to 67) at PCGS and I've had NGC coins get bagged at PCGS. I've had PCGS coins get bagged on a crackout and resubmission back to PCGS only to grade 2 points higher on a subsequent resubmission.

    So, save your own money. You're right and you will prove your point, but unfortunately the only thing you'll accomplish is spending some money and putting it in to Revenue line of the TPG. >>




    I think one word that the top three grading companies need to learn is *consistancy*
    Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing about. -Benjamin Franklin-
  • FatManFatMan Posts: 8,977 ✭
    Right now the experiment I would be more interested in seeing performed would be to take 10 PCGS crackouts and resubmit to PCGS. How many do you think would come back lower? Higher? The problem with the two TPGs today is not that they use a different standard, it is that they are so inconsistent. In this version of the experiment if they all come back lower, does that mean PCGS is more conservative than PCGS?image
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Right now the experiment I would be more interested in seeing performed would be to take 10 PCGS crackouts and resubmit to PCGS. >>



    Fats beat me to it. But, make them all coins that were graded a couple years ago.

    Russ, NCNE
    eBay consignment sales | | Collectibles from Resco CCC
  • mercurydimeguymercurydimeguy Posts: 4,625 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Fats beat me to it. But, make them all coins that were graded a couple years ago.

    Russ, NCNE >>



    I've tried this and nearly 8 out of 10 come back 1-2 points lower, and some loose their special designations image

  • ellewoodellewood Posts: 1,750 ✭
    So, save your own money. You're right and you will prove your point, but unfortunately the only thing you'll accomplish is spending some money and putting it in to Revenue line of the TPG.
    image


    Not that it makes much difference...but I just sent in 14 PCGS PR69DCAM coins to NGC to be crossed over and put in three multi-coin holders for my daughter...and 2 of them did not cross to NGC 69UCAM. Some people may think that they grade by "different" standards...but I can say that NGC's standard was not lower than PCGS's this time around...and that's for sure!

    image
  • TrinkettsTrinketts Posts: 1,699 ✭
    I agree with Russ and Fatman as well... it falls back on consistancy... i remember a few months back when Russ was getting slaughtered on obvious Cameos and DCAMS.
    Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing about. -Benjamin Franklin-
  • LincolnCentManLincolnCentMan Posts: 5,347 ✭✭✭✭
    I think three out of five will downgrade out of that batch that you posted.

    David
    Lincolncentman Toned Lincolns
  • TrinkettsTrinketts Posts: 1,699 ✭


    << <i>I think three out of five will downgrade out of that batch that you posted.

    David >>



    So it your opinion that NGC over grades?

    Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing about. -Benjamin Franklin-
  • DennisHDennisH Posts: 14,011 ✭✭✭✭✭
    1 will grade higher.
    6 will grade the same.
    3 will grade lower.
    When in doubt, don't.
  • ddbirdddbird Posts: 3,168 ✭✭✭
    Not sure..but I doubt the morgan goes 65.
    image
    ">"    http://www.cashcrate.com/5663377"
  • dunerlawdunerlaw Posts: 387 ✭✭
    I predict 30-40% of your coins to get 1 pt downgrades.
    Thats my average for "better" NGC mercury dimes (older holders, etc).
    The newer weaker examples could loose typically 1 and occasionally 2 points.
    Larry Martin's Mercury Dime Variety Set
  • morgannut2morgannut2 Posts: 4,293 ✭
    The 89 Morgan should cross EASILY if it's cracked out first--it looks GEM---- But really you need to closely look at the tiny ticks on the cheek with a 5X loop to see if the tiny ticks are distracting or deep, and to insure it isn't thumbed--The Morgan has a nice original look but it's folly to buy a coin without looking at it closely. NGC could easily have missed a slide mark or a line from a staple that's only seen at an angle-- The same is true of crossing PCGS coins to NGC!!!image
    morgannut2
  • sinin1sinin1 Posts: 7,500 ✭
    8 WILL GRADE LOWER
  • mercurydimeguymercurydimeguy Posts: 4,625 ✭✭✭✭

    Here are my 2 most recent NGC > PCGS attempts:

    1891-S 25C NGC MS62 > DNC (on a cross attempt) > PCGS MS63 (cracked out and submitted raw)

    1847 $5 Gold NGC MS61 > PCGS MS61 (cross)

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