Baltimore is a VAM wasteland.....

Peaceman · December 10, 2005 12:56AM

A good VAM buddy of mine went to the show yesterday and had this to say..... (edited somewhat)

Yesterday I went to the show in Baltimore and submitted three Vams to PCGS for grading. Other than visiting PCGS, the show turned out to be a bust... I looked around, but couldn't really see any nice Vams, attributed or otherwise... just a couple of low-level double dies... no die breaks or any other interesting varieities at all!... there were hardly even any Morgan Vams...a couple of routine spitting eagles...
I did see one nice error... a double struck 1921 High Relief, with nice separation... but at $27500, it seemed a tad expensive (!!)... in fact, the whole show operates like eBay doesn't exist... prices were consistently much higher than online... especially for errors (which I always look for...), but for other average prices as well.... everything about 30-50% higher than online.. Of course, the shows are mostly about dealers buying and selling to one another, not the public... that's always the case, but even so...

JrGMan2004 · December 10, 2005 1:02AM

Welcome to my world

I'm lucky to even find a handful of Capped Bust Half Dimes even at a major show like Baltimore... much less anything scarce, and that doesn't count the high-MS Type coins that I can't afford

Plus, at the major shows, I know of at least 3 or 4 sharp eyes that I'm competing with to find these coins, and at least 2 or 3 of those 3 to 4, are very good at attributing without much help...

jdsinva · December 10, 2005 1:26AM

I thought Jack & Rob usually attend Baltimore, has anyone heard from them yet?

DennisH · December 10, 2005 1:59AM

Jack hasn't answered my PM from midday yesterday, which I suspect means he's having fun!

Peaceman · December 10, 2005 4:35AM

Or on his 4000th coin with no luck.... Maybe the guys who got there early cleaned them out..... If you went to the show and found something let's see a pic...

keets · December 10, 2005 6:01AM

prices for even moderate stuff are ridiculous in part because of dealer-dealer trading. that may account for your comment that "Maybe the guys who got there early cleaned them out" by paying for the Thursday early entry. also, another phenomenon i've encountered within the past 3-4 years of escalation-----even the dealers are starting to look closer at their coins and have gotten better at attributing varieties, with the attendant pricing for even common stuff. a high market like this seems to mean not only a death sentence for the bargain hunter but imprisonment of the cherrypicker!!!

with all that in mind, it still pays to go to as many shows as possible, the rewards just have to be measured on a different scale.

BillJones · December 10, 2005 6:10AM

I was at the Baltimore show for "Super Bourse Day." About half way through my $100 admission day I said to myself, "It looks like I'm not going to find anything exciting at this show." I did SEE a couple of exciting things, like an 1839-D Quarter Eagle in "REAL" MS-62, but since the asking price was higher than the book value on the 2005 Buick Park Avenue Ultra, I had to pass.

Higher gold and silver prices + more speculators make of lean times for collectors. This won't last forever, but while it's going on it's certainly not "chocolates and roses" for everyone. Time was a collector could got to show and have fun with a few grand. Today you can go with 10 to 15 grand and not be able to afford very much that is nice.

1907Quarter · December 10, 2005 10:27AM

The last 3 Baltimore shows I attended(1/year) I got exactly one coin per show, a nice xf braided half cent, a 1913 T-1 buffalo nickel in NGC63 and my pcgsms66 1947 washington quarter, and this is after looking at thousands and thousands of coins. Makes you weary after a long day. Atleast I found one thing at each...

coinkat · December 10, 2005 10:33AM

Baltimore is a great show and you have to look hard, circle the floor several times, look carefully in the cases and you will find something.

RobJoyce1921dVAMguy · December 10, 2005 12:31PM

Hey guys. I did attend Friday but couldn't characterize the entire bourse as I covered probably 10%. I just hit some dealers that I typically work with and a couple random stops. I didn't look at a single 21-D in a slab, which for those of you that know me is a major deviation from my typical modus-operandi. I spent part of the day with a work friend that is slabbing and selling some coins from his dad's estate. He's totally unfamiliar with coins and needed help to keep from getting fleeced. I spent some time putting in a huge submission of all my top-100 VAMs that are in PCGS holders so I can get them in my registry set. I also put in a pile of raw coins, mostly top 100 VAMs. While I'm not in DennisH's league, it was a big pile. Those two activities and visiting with some vam friends kept me out of circulation on the bourse. I didn't get to do my typical rounds.

I wouldn't call it a complete VAM wasteland. If you were looking for attributed slabs, picking was thin for better coins. I did see an attributed 95 S/S VAM-3 in a PCGS 50 but it was too rich for my blood (don't PM me for a lead, I didn't recognize the dealer and can't help!)
I walked away with the following:

78-S VAM-16 Die gouge wing, chip chest ANACS 63 DMPL obv. Kind of common VAM but the DMPL obverse combined with the common price made it a keeper.

78-S VAM-15 Lines in wing, AU cleaned unfortunately but a great VAM. For those of you that haven't seen it, check:
http://www.rjrc.com/vams/1878s_vam15.htm

83 O/O VAM-4 Top 100 NGC 64.

85 S/S VAM-6 raw Top 100 (would go ANACS AU-50, PCGS 45, many of you know the type of coin)
21-P VAM-3A3 spiked tail feathers LDS NGC 63
21-P VAM-3C/3G (same VAM) Hot 50 pitted reverse NGC 63

21-P VAM-3B Hot 50 Pitted Reverse MS 62/63 ish
21-P VAM-3B Hot 50 Pitted Reverse MS 62/63 ish also
21-D VAM-1D Raw AU55
21-D VAM-8B Raw AU58

All the coins were unattributed cherries at common prices

Sorry no pics, madly working on finishing the basement before the holiday guests arrive... no stress here!

Jack Lee was indeed there as were fellow vammers Ash Harrison and Grant Hobika (sp?) as well as former VAMer Coinkat. Sorry I missed Peaceman and others!
Jack had a computer crash and is recovering. He's just getting back online so it may be a little bit before he checks in. He did well and had one cherry pick that made me envious!
Cheers,
Rob
[edited to fix link to VAM-15]

Coxe · December 10, 2005 12:56PM

I sure hope it is a little better at FUN, as I am there for the full show. I always come away from Long Beach with as many VAMs as I can buy. If it is weak on VAMs, there are clashed dies, which aren't generally as picked over. With so many silver dollars, it is hard for any big bourse to be completely picked over. If I get nowhere with slabs, I just go slumming in the stacks of raw circulated stuff. (No, I am not a "wannabe" who cannot deal with raw, having collected and graded the stuff longer than many of the pros.) Pulled a couple 78-S long nocks, an 82-O/S and a 92-O doubled ear last time I did that in frustration.

Peaceman · December 10, 2005 1:28PM

Rob, Looks like someone found something there.... glad to hear it... I personally didn't go but I did have a few guys looking for me...

Baltimore is a VAM wasteland.....

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