Coin Show Report - Baltimore
DaveG
Posts: 3,535 ✭
I went to Baltimore today. Normally, I would go on Friday, but I couldn't this year. I took the train from Newark, NJ to Baltimore and then took the light rail to the convention center. When I got off the light rail, I followed the crowd of middle-aged white guys and learned something new. Instead of walking the length of the Convention Center on the (cold) sidewalk, we entered the Convention Center at the nearest entrance, went up to the 3rd floor and then walked the length of the (warm) convention center to get to the coin show! What a concept!!
Baltimore is a big show - it's really disorientingly large. Just walking the entire bourse takes hours; I can't imagine what the show will be like when they add the third hall in March. (But I'm looking forward to it!) With the third hall, the show will occupy as much space as ANA did in 2003 - not only that, but all the space that was devoted to displays and clubs will be devoted to the bourse!
There wasn't just a "buzz" of activity, there was an actual "din"! It looked like a lot of business was getting done. As others have no doubt said, there was an absence of nicer material in dealer's cases. I suspect that much of the nicer material was actually "behind the table", waiting to go home to want list customers, though. Several dealers commented that they were doing a lot of selling, but it was hard to buy any nice material.
I thought that floor activity was brisk. It was never hard to get down the aisles, but frequently there were one or two people in front of me at a dealer's table. Many dealers started packing up between lunch time and about 3:00 p.m., though.
The usual "stuff" (commoner-date BU Morgans, Walkers, commems, etc.) was in ample supply; scarcer coins were harder to find. One thing that did strike me though, was that I saw at least two Capped Head half eagles from the 1820s - these are genuinely uncommon coins; I don't think I've ever seen them at a show before. There wasn't a lot of Liberty Seated material around, particularly the pre-1853 coins. I did see a lot of Bust dollars (including slabbed pieces) - these coins must have hit their price ceiling, because I saw a lot of nice ones (VF+ and XF), but they were too rich for me. I did not see a whole lot of Seated dollars, though.
I had a brief chat with njcoincrank (who looked a bit tired, I have to say - he must have had a full week); as usual, he had some museum quality things with him, including a possibly unique Bryan dollar with a gold dollar (1853) inset into one side
and a Bryan dollar with a man's name engraved on it (presentation piece?). Delaware Valley had a Bryan dollar "love token". I only looked at it in the case, so I didn't get to see the love token side.
I had a nice visit with dahlonega and Al Adams at the Gold Rush Gallery table; their inventory of southern gold was rather depleted. They were "reduced" to selling some (really nice) foreign gold!
ANACS was still giving free verbal grading opinions, although there was a copy of a letter (signed by James Taylor) at their table explaining his decision for ANACS not to offer free verbal opinions anymore (I read it while I was in line for an opinion!), so I don't know if they'll be offering opinions anymore - I didn't get a chance to ask.
I did not see any sample slabs being given out.
I feel like I did a lot of running around today, but not much organized looking (if you know what I mean).
Among the cool things I saw: Last Christmas, my wife gave me a copy of Slabaugh's Confederate States Paper Money. In it, he has a chapter on the South's "cotton economy" which includes the story of Confederate bonds payable in either cotton or coin. He says that the most famous of these bonds are those issued by French banker Emile Erlanger in the denominations of 100, 200, 500 and 1,000 pounds sterling. He includes an illustration of the rather handsome Bond, which was printed in Europe. I found one at the show today, a 1000 pound sterling bond with 37 or the 40 coupons attached. The dealer wanted $1250 for it, however; and said that the lower denominations were about $700 or so. (I guess they're pretty popular!)
I've been looking at Broken Bank Notes (issued by state-chartered banks before the Civil War) for about a year or so, to compliment my interest in 19th century commercial history. Many broken banknote collectors seem to prefer unissued notes, since they're in uncirculated condition, but I've been looking for notes that actually circulated. Today I found a dealer with a lot of circulated notes, but none from New Orleans (my personal favorite). He had South Caroline, Georgia, Tennessee, etc., by no New Orleans. After a certain amount of searching, I found a dealer who had a $100 banknote from the Canal Bank (New Orleans Canal and Banking Company) that was dated (Oct. 1st, 1845) and numbered, but not signed, so I think that it was readied for issue, but not actually issued. Thinking it was the best I was going to do today, I bought it.
Next, I was looking for no-motto gold, preferebly southern. I saw a decent amount of Charlotte and Dahlonega gold, but little New Orleans gold. So, as a "consolation prize" I got two Philly half eagles, an 1850 in XF-45 and an 1856 in AU-50. Interestingly, half eagles were minted in Philly, Charlotte and Dahlonega in 1850; and, (although mintages don't mean much in terms of suggesting survivorship for these coins), mintage for the P-mint was 64,491, compared to 63,591 for the C-mint and 39,036 for the D-mint. According to the September Grey Sheet, Bid for these coins in XF is $435 for the P-mint, compared to $1700 for the C-mint and $1800 for the D-mint. (Sounds like the P-mint might be a bit of a bargain, doesn't it?) By the way, no-motto eagles were pretty thin on the ground and Type I double eagles were even thinner on the ground.
Finally, today's high point was my visit to ANACS. I had inherited a very pretty 1900 half eagle from my father a few years ago. I had looked at it when I got it, but recently, being more knowledgeable about gold now, I looked at it again and thought "This is a really nice coin. I wonder if it's an AU-58, an MS-63 or a counterfeit?" So, I brought it with me for ANACS to look at. They had two graders today. The first guy looked at it carefully for a minute or so, and then handed it to his partner. I thought "Uh Oh, it's a fake." But, instead, the second guy handed it back to the first, who said "We think it's between a -63 and a -64!" You could have knocked me over with a feather! What a nice surprise! I may have to submit this coin for slabbing someday!
All-in-all, today was a very good show; it was quite busy and there were lots of coins and other things to see and buy and lots of people to talk to. I really encourage you to attend if you llive within 500 miles of the show and don't go to FUN!
Baltimore is a big show - it's really disorientingly large. Just walking the entire bourse takes hours; I can't imagine what the show will be like when they add the third hall in March. (But I'm looking forward to it!) With the third hall, the show will occupy as much space as ANA did in 2003 - not only that, but all the space that was devoted to displays and clubs will be devoted to the bourse!
There wasn't just a "buzz" of activity, there was an actual "din"! It looked like a lot of business was getting done. As others have no doubt said, there was an absence of nicer material in dealer's cases. I suspect that much of the nicer material was actually "behind the table", waiting to go home to want list customers, though. Several dealers commented that they were doing a lot of selling, but it was hard to buy any nice material.
I thought that floor activity was brisk. It was never hard to get down the aisles, but frequently there were one or two people in front of me at a dealer's table. Many dealers started packing up between lunch time and about 3:00 p.m., though.
The usual "stuff" (commoner-date BU Morgans, Walkers, commems, etc.) was in ample supply; scarcer coins were harder to find. One thing that did strike me though, was that I saw at least two Capped Head half eagles from the 1820s - these are genuinely uncommon coins; I don't think I've ever seen them at a show before. There wasn't a lot of Liberty Seated material around, particularly the pre-1853 coins. I did see a lot of Bust dollars (including slabbed pieces) - these coins must have hit their price ceiling, because I saw a lot of nice ones (VF+ and XF), but they were too rich for me. I did not see a whole lot of Seated dollars, though.
I had a brief chat with njcoincrank (who looked a bit tired, I have to say - he must have had a full week); as usual, he had some museum quality things with him, including a possibly unique Bryan dollar with a gold dollar (1853) inset into one side
and a Bryan dollar with a man's name engraved on it (presentation piece?). Delaware Valley had a Bryan dollar "love token". I only looked at it in the case, so I didn't get to see the love token side.I had a nice visit with dahlonega and Al Adams at the Gold Rush Gallery table; their inventory of southern gold was rather depleted. They were "reduced" to selling some (really nice) foreign gold!
ANACS was still giving free verbal grading opinions, although there was a copy of a letter (signed by James Taylor) at their table explaining his decision for ANACS not to offer free verbal opinions anymore (I read it while I was in line for an opinion!), so I don't know if they'll be offering opinions anymore - I didn't get a chance to ask.
I did not see any sample slabs being given out.
I feel like I did a lot of running around today, but not much organized looking (if you know what I mean).
Among the cool things I saw: Last Christmas, my wife gave me a copy of Slabaugh's Confederate States Paper Money. In it, he has a chapter on the South's "cotton economy" which includes the story of Confederate bonds payable in either cotton or coin. He says that the most famous of these bonds are those issued by French banker Emile Erlanger in the denominations of 100, 200, 500 and 1,000 pounds sterling. He includes an illustration of the rather handsome Bond, which was printed in Europe. I found one at the show today, a 1000 pound sterling bond with 37 or the 40 coupons attached. The dealer wanted $1250 for it, however; and said that the lower denominations were about $700 or so. (I guess they're pretty popular!)
I've been looking at Broken Bank Notes (issued by state-chartered banks before the Civil War) for about a year or so, to compliment my interest in 19th century commercial history. Many broken banknote collectors seem to prefer unissued notes, since they're in uncirculated condition, but I've been looking for notes that actually circulated. Today I found a dealer with a lot of circulated notes, but none from New Orleans (my personal favorite). He had South Caroline, Georgia, Tennessee, etc., by no New Orleans. After a certain amount of searching, I found a dealer who had a $100 banknote from the Canal Bank (New Orleans Canal and Banking Company) that was dated (Oct. 1st, 1845) and numbered, but not signed, so I think that it was readied for issue, but not actually issued. Thinking it was the best I was going to do today, I bought it.
Next, I was looking for no-motto gold, preferebly southern. I saw a decent amount of Charlotte and Dahlonega gold, but little New Orleans gold. So, as a "consolation prize" I got two Philly half eagles, an 1850 in XF-45 and an 1856 in AU-50. Interestingly, half eagles were minted in Philly, Charlotte and Dahlonega in 1850; and, (although mintages don't mean much in terms of suggesting survivorship for these coins), mintage for the P-mint was 64,491, compared to 63,591 for the C-mint and 39,036 for the D-mint. According to the September Grey Sheet, Bid for these coins in XF is $435 for the P-mint, compared to $1700 for the C-mint and $1800 for the D-mint. (Sounds like the P-mint might be a bit of a bargain, doesn't it?) By the way, no-motto eagles were pretty thin on the ground and Type I double eagles were even thinner on the ground.
Finally, today's high point was my visit to ANACS. I had inherited a very pretty 1900 half eagle from my father a few years ago. I had looked at it when I got it, but recently, being more knowledgeable about gold now, I looked at it again and thought "This is a really nice coin. I wonder if it's an AU-58, an MS-63 or a counterfeit?" So, I brought it with me for ANACS to look at. They had two graders today. The first guy looked at it carefully for a minute or so, and then handed it to his partner. I thought "Uh Oh, it's a fake." But, instead, the second guy handed it back to the first, who said "We think it's between a -63 and a -64!"
You could have knocked me over with a feather! What a nice surprise! I may have to submit this coin for slabbing someday!All-in-all, today was a very good show; it was quite busy and there were lots of coins and other things to see and buy and lots of people to talk to. I really encourage you to attend if you llive within 500 miles of the show and don't go to FUN!
Check out the Southern Gold Society
0
Comments
Joe
I also got a report today from a major gold wholesaler who filled me in on the show. Said it was very busy and of course gold was hot, all forms...even Saints and $20 Libs. Coins I sold him last weekend sold easily with another 3-5% tacked on. He deals in volume and low margins.
MS64's and 65's of the $5 thru $10 Libs and Indians were not to be found....at least not at earthly prices. The same $10 Indian he sold me last week for $1900, he'd pay 2-3% more this week. The sheets are way behind on MS64 Saints (listed at $760 bid). He said he was getting a little over $800 wholesale for his. Interesting that by Wed the CDN was so far off on $20 gold prices. Or possibly the key players were not raising bids lately to scarf material up behind the scenes. It did seem odd that gold was up $50 since Sept yet the price of Saints was unchanged to lower.
Bustman's nicer bust coins at ANR brought 50-200% over sheet.
Guess that shows what the sheet means at times. Even CDN is becoming a price guide for average coins, while blue sheet is losing relevance altogether except for series that are dead or where the coin is just superbly ugly or overgraded by a mile.
roadrunner
I don't think it's the fault of the Grey Sheets: I think that in a "moving" market (up or down), the Sheets tell you what prices were, not what prices are and certainly not what prices will be next week.
Check out the Southern Gold Society
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
It doesn't really matter to those buying as they know what they can or cannot buy them for.
roadrunner
Sorry, no auctions for me.
It was just a quick in-and-out today.
roadrunner,
I was just speaking generally. I'm afraid I don't know anything about the double eagle market, nor do I watch prices from week-to-week.
Check out the Southern Gold Society
Visited with LMS a couple of times, met Wayne Herndon(real fine person and knowledgeable), buying 1 bust half- 1827 curl 2 in 64.
Also 3 more bust halves from Sheridan Downey.
Highlight for me was meeting the collector of the No. 2 Lib nickel set(MS), and viewing his coins. He has some finest knowns, and with the help of his dealer-Brian Wagner- will some day have the finest set, most likely. His 1886 in 66, 1911 in 67 and 1912-D in 66 are the best I have ever viewed. Not to forget he has one of the 2 1885's in 67.
I was able to preview some of the coins in the Upcoming ANR sale scheduled for March in Baltimore. All raw at this time, from an estate assembled in the 70's. Some knockout coins from all series. It looked like this collector just had to have the finest eye appealing coins available at the time.
Also viewed the best Proof trade dollar ever slabbed- a 68 with booming luster and rainbow toned. This coin will set new records for a non-1884/85 proof trade dollar. And a beautiful 1836 Gobrecht dollar in 64-again toned and lusterous. Both coins will be in the Superior pre-FUN auction.
I had brought with me some true 65 and 66 bust halves for roadrunner to view, but couldn't find him. I do not think he made it. It snowed Thursday night, and travel was tough for a day.
This was only my 2nd Baltimore show, but I'm sure I will go back. It's 1650 miles from home, but worth it.
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
The wholesale activity on Thursday was better than average with almost everything selling easily, whether it be generic coins or great rarities. Compared to the Baltimore Conventions of the past, there wasn't as many coins worth buying as there has been in the past.
Because of dire weather forcasts for Friday, many dealers on Thursday predicted a catastrophic bust in attendance for Friday. Fortunately the weather improved by morning and attendance was much better than expected for Friday.
Despite the jump in spot price for gold and silver, certified Saints weren't as hot as I thought they would be. There were two large dealerships who were selling PCGS MS65 Saints for $1300, with hundreds available for sale.
Attendance was excellent on Saturday, and I heard from countless other dealers who were told by their customers that they tried to attend on Friday, but were dissuaded or couldn't because of the weather. Unfortunately, many dealers also reported that Saturday bore more "tirekickers" in the crowd than usual, although retail sales were solid for most dealers by Saturday afternoon.
Although I experienced differently, more people than usual were happier with their on-site grading results than they have been for the last several shows. Apparently, the consensus was that on-site grading was more generous this time with fewer complaints being voiced.
I don't believe I met any new forum members other than the folks I have already met in the past. If you recognize my name but don't know me I encourage you to stop me and introduce yourself.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
laura, laura, laura
Are you watching the Delphi bankruptcy? You should be.
<< <i>There is an awful lot of money in the world with few places to go. (per Legend) This statement deserves some serious thought. It may be saying something about the world economy and the distribution of wealth. Is it a "red flag" for the future (and I'm not talking just about coins.)
Are you watching the Delphi bankruptcy? You should be. >>
It is getting extensive coverage in Michigan. There are many
potential ramifications for middle class industrial jobs and none of them are pretty.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
roadrunner
<< <i>Well only a little. At $1300 for PCGS MS65 saints, those should have been flying out the door. One middle-wholesaler I know is paying more than that at the moment. Not sure how the bigger players are selling for less. Generic gold is on fire. Several dealers hit me up today at Auburn after having been wiped out of all their gold at Balty. They were feverish to replenish it today. I could have sold any quantity of MS64 Saints at over $800/ea. Very strong. And gold on the move already tonight overseas.
roadrunner >>
Since I last posted, the same two dealers are selling them for $1360, which is still lower than expected, given the rise in spot price. I asked one of them about that and their reason was that they had a few hundred more than what they really want to have on hand. Who knows, things may change by tommorrow and prices may jump up a lot more.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"