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Fletcher
Posts: 3,294 ✭
0
Fletcher
Posts: 3,294 ✭
Fletcher
Posts: 3,294 ✭
Comments
<< <i>Fletcher,the seller has the full right to ask you to leave feedback before he does the same... >>
BS ... I took the risk by paying first. At that point, my obligation has been fulfilled and I should receive positive feedback.
I still stand on my postion of feedback,however I recently tried a experiment of leaving feedback to my buyers after they paid and found that almost all my buyers leave me feedback! Even though the seller has full right to be in control of feedback I've found that it's worth laying down that privilege.Hey if I get a neg from a crazy buyer it won't matter as much as if everyone else has left positive...
Geez,it's way to late to be posting!
<< <i>
<< <i>Fletcher,the seller has the full right to ask you to leave feedback before he does the same... >>
BS ... I took the risk by paying first. At that point, my obligation has been fulfilled and I should receive positive feedback. >>
Someone pass the popcorn,this guy is going to get burned!
<< <i> he SHOULD give feedback immediately upon payment. >>
Says who?
<< <i>the seller has full right to be in control of feedback >>
Upon what do you base this erroneous conclusion?
My favorite topic.. I agree with Fletcher!
That's it folks! It's MY money I'm putting up first and that, to me, is the first half of a + transaction! Anything else makes me feel a seller has another agenda.
1. When you receive the coin and then file a false claim with Papal AND get your money back (temporarily)...should the seller still feel "positive" about the transaction?
2. When you leave Negative for the seller because he would not accept your return request because of buyers remoarse...should the seller still feel "positive" about the transaction?
3. When you leave neutral or negative feedback for WHATEVER reason you want...should the seller still feel "positive" about the transaction?
<< <i>
<< <i> he SHOULD give feedback immediately upon payment. >>
Says who? >>
Says logic and the chronology of the transaction. When I pay, my obligation has been fulfilled. What is your argument?
<< <i>SO...
1. When you receive the coin and then file a false claim with Papal AND get your money back (temporarily)...should the seller still fell "positive" about the transaction?
2. When you leave Negative for the seller because he would not accept your return request because of buyers remoarse...should the seller still fell "positive" about the transaction?
3. When you leave neutral or negative feedback for WHATEVER reason you want...should the seller still fell "positive" about the transaction? >>
That is what a response to the negative is for.
<< <i>The Ebay feedback system is dopey and irritating. Buy the coin, not the feedback. >>
I agree,but feedback is nice too...
My posts viewed
since 8/1/6
<< <i>That is what a response to the negative is for. >>
Is this "response" also posted next to my sellers feedback rating on the page where they are deciding how much to bid?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i> he SHOULD give feedback immediately upon payment. >>
Says who? >>
Says logic and the chronology of the transaction. When I pay, my obligation has been fulfilled. What is your argument? >>
What is yours?
<< <i>What is yours? >>
I have typed it out three times ... read the thread. And then, please give me your argument. I would really like to hear it.
<< <i>
<< <i>What is yours? >>
I have typed it out three times ... read the thread. And then, please give me your argument. I would really like to hear it. >>
I gave mine,I'm just wondering when you'll get set straight...good night!
As a seller I held my feed back until I was sure the buyer was happy with his purchase, buy getting his possitive feed back left for me.
pz
(Priest) BLASPHEMY he said it again, did you hear him?
<< <i>I gave mine,I'm just wondering when you'll get set straight...good night!
I just reread the entire thread ... as can anyone else here ... and nowhere did you give a reason for your response. Accordingly, I must conclude that you have none. Good night
<< <i>A subject like feedback over and eBay transaction--unless it is a negative you don't deserve--is not worth getting upset about. It does not qualify as a problem in life, sorry. >>
Lol ... breathe in ... breathe out. All better
I am far more wary with all the new ebayers and my feedback than ever before. As the price of computers goes down and internet -particularly broadband- falls, many people from a lower socio-economic are using ebay. This increases risk to legitamate longtime users from neophytes, with sometimes no reasonable explanation.
Anyone else dreading getting a neg. for no reason out there? I know sometime I must fall, but I hope not soon. When I get my first negetive, I hope I EARN it
I try to treat all customers to the same excellent service (even with $0.01 selling price) and I hope avoid negative feedback and maintain my 100% positive rating as a result. However, if the customer is not interested in increasing the overall positive feedback total by acknowledging a successful transaction then I don't necessarily feel as obligated to increase their overall rating with additional positive feedback.
IMHO a transaction is not completed immediately upon payment. Many problems can occur including loss, fraud, or simple misunderstandings. I've had a customer complain for several weeks that he had not received a coin I shipped to my consistent standards. He eventually admitted it had been received promptly at his home, but not passed on to him.
When should positive feedback be left? Upon successful completion of a positive transaction.
After having several chargebacks weeks after I mailed the coin because someone used a
stolen credit card thru Paypal, or people claiming nondelivery and had filed for Paypal refunds, and
the coin was delivered AFTER the Paypal appeal period has expired. And they left ME a negative.
Sorry, I won't do it until they leave feedback or the post office confirms delivery.
<< <i>I just reread the entire thread ... as can anyone else here ... and nowhere did you give a reason for your response. Accordingly, I must conclude that you have none. >>
It appears you missed the part where he explained it to you with three examples.
Accordingly, we must conclude you have reading comprehension issues.
If ebay feedback is so important to you, then leave it for the seller and chances are you'll get it back.
Otherwise - don't bother with it.
My posts viewed
since 8/1/6
I agree. Do others? If so, I wonder what everyone's thoughts are on how to change it.
For example, maybe feedback shoudn't be final. Should revisions be allowed afterwards? Then it wouldn't matter much who went first.
Not leaving feedback is another way to express a mild negative. It would be more useful, however, if eBay showed the number of transactions a buyer or seller was invloved in. Then you could see how many times feedback was NOT left.
How else could it be changed?
Who gives a damn what they do. You act properly.
return I will leave feedback. If the buyer is not happy then we can make some arrangements, prior to leaving each other feedback.
Leaving immediate feedback to the seller leaves you open to the whims and the remorse of the buyer, or the buyer telling you
they never received the product. I now automatically insure,and use confirmation since I had a number of buyers claim non receipt.
It is amazing how quickly one receives their product when the USPS initiates their investigation, and requests signatures.
I used to leave feedback immediately, but since only 40% would leave feedback in return I quit doing that.
My feeling is if they are happy with the product they will leave feedback, and I will respond with such. This is probably the
only reason I have been able to avoid negs, since I maintain the power to neg first or come to an understanding with the
buyer.
Andy
its feedback.... who cares. do your best to please, and you will be fine. he SHOULD give feedback immediately upon payment. this seldom happens, so either leave feedback or dont.... the only thing that REALLY matters is the coin you receive. you leave feedback based on his/her service, and do the right thing.
<< <i>
It appears you missed the part where he explained it to you with three examples.
Accordingly, we must conclude you have reading comprehension issues.
>>
Actually, someone else left those three examples, not him. Try again please
When I buy coins on ebay I look at the big picture. I'm not worried about feedback. I'm only concerned about receiving the coins.
Yes, someone has to be first.
Yes, the buyer completes their part by paying first, and in a reasonable world, the seller would post feedback when the item is sent.
Yes, the potential for a feedback threat is much higher for a seller than for a buyer. (The buyer can always get a new account without forfeiting hundreds or thousands of positive feedbacks.)
If buyers wouldn't try to hold sellers hostage over feedback then I would say that the seller should always leave feedback first. However, since we all know that it can and does happen, I understand the seller's point of view.
<< <i>Says logic and the chronology of the transaction. When I pay, my obligation has been fulfilled. >>
Fine then when I send it my obligation has been fulfilled and you should leave a positive. Oh you don't like the coin?, well leave a positive feedback and we'll talk about a return because my obligation has been fulfilled by your logic. Leave a neg and your stuck with it.
People seem to think that there are only two parts to a transaction, there are actually either five or six
Seller offers
Buyer accepts
Buyer pays
Seller delivers
Buyer approves Transaction completed OR Buyer returns
Seller reimbures Transaction completed
The buyers obligation does not end until the fifth step has been completed. The sellers ends after either the fouth or the sixth step depending on what the buyer does on step five. I do not believe feedback should be left until the transaction is completed.
As a seller, I usually wait until the buyer has left feedback first. This is my signal that the transaction is complete. However, if a week or so has passed and the buyer hasn't said anything, I'll assume that all is well, and go ahead and leave a positive anyway. I've never had a buyer come back and neg me after a positive, and frankly even if they did it wouldn't bug me too much.
<< <i>I am sick and tired of paying for an auction w/in 2 minutes of its end and having the seller refuse to give me positive feedback until I leave it for him. I am taking the risk by sending the money before receiving the coin ... I have completed my obligation first ... and I deserve positive feedback immediately, or at least w/in a reasonable period of time. I am tired of receiving emails after the fact saying "Leave positive email for me and I'll do the same for you."
I will buy coins from dealers with a couple of negs, because S41T happens. However, I will never buy anything again from the dealers who have held my positive feedback hostage.
End of rant
I haven't bothered reading through the rest of the thread, so I apologize if a similar response has already been made. We NEVER leave feedback before a transaction is completed, I don't care how fast someone paid for the item. Your obligation is NOT complete once you pay. If once you receive the coin and you decide to return it, it is your obligation to return it safely. If the coin is lost en route by the USPS, it is your obligation to help complete the paperwork (along with the sender), so that a claim can be filed. As a seller, we've had people pay for the coin, then do the following: 1) claim it was never received (when it was), and fraudulently retrieve their money back through Paypal or their credit card company 2) remove the coin from the holder and return it or return the coin in an altered state 3) improperly return the coin, so it was damaged on the way back to us 4) use a stolen card to purchase the coin in the first place. So, given the four circumstances that have happened, why would any seller give positive feedback until the transaction is complete?
To quickly address your main point, however, and what we do....we leave positive feedback in three situations: 1) if it has been given to us, thus indicating the buyer assumes the transaction is complete, 2) the buyer informs us the coin has arrived safely and that they are happy with it, or 3) the buyer is not satisfied with the coin, returns it safely, and the refund to the buyer goes smoothly.
I'm just curious... Would you buy from a seller with a very poor feedback record?
I see your point Fletch, and as a seller I usually ask via email if buyer would leave feedback and I will reciprocate, providing they are satisfied upon receipt of said item. If they are not satisfied, kindly email me and let me know why and how I can resolve any issue to make a satisfactory transaction. Plain and simple. If that upsets buyers, I would hope they can understand the reasoning. I would hope to build a relationship over a bank account, though it is not a quality most expect to find in our industry.
Furthermore, if there is no feedback left after a couple of weeks and after having checked the shipping status I find the item has been delivered, I usually follow up with an email inquring as to whether they are satisfied or not and to ensure they have received item.
I will tell you, there are some who just do not communicate....PERIOD.
Should I leave them positive feedback because they PAID instantly with PAY PAL ? Is this about the ALMIGHTY DOLLAR ? .... I am grateful for the communication
Joe
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>Who cares? Ebay feedback is BS anyway (especially for buyers).
I'm just curious... Would you buy from a seller with a very poor feedback record? >>
No.
The principal viability of feedback is in respect of sellers IMO. A buyer's feedback does not seem to be very important, other than alerting the seller that the buyer may not honor the transaction.
I've been blocked by a few sellers (mostly because of a complaint I aired on these boards last year), but it is not of concern to me (I've actually asked a few sellers to block me so I don't mistakenly buy from them).
Im a strong Ebay coin buyer, and have been burned a few times in the process. I also will not hesitate to return a coin if I don't like it when received. I've learned to buy only from honest sellers who offer a "no questions asked" return policy. Live and learn.
Bottom line is that, as a buyer, I'm not concerned when or if sellers leave feedback. Most do. It's always positive unless there was a problem with the transaction. I'm not reluctant to NEG a bad seller, and the threat of retalatory feedback is of no concern to me. I sense that most buyers are too leinient, and that more neutrals and NEGs are warranted.
I hope Ebay does something with feedback, and the people saying "who cares, it's just feedback" are wrong. Feedback matters to the sellers because it attracts more buyers and bids (I will not bid on something from a seller with a worrisome feedback record) and it matters to the buyers, like me, that could use some reason or evidence to go ahead and confidently risk money and time. Feedback means, and effects, money and time to many.
Now as to who has the obligation to leave feedback first--it is a bilateral transaction in which the obligation is simultaneous unless the contract provides otherwise. It is no different from an in-person sale that would get locked up over who has to hand over the consideration first. Example: P offers to sell a cow and B offers to buy the cow. Who is obligated to produce first? They are obligated to produce simultaneously. It the other fails to produce, the one has an action in replevin.
The problem is that there is no system for retracting feedback. I have heard stories from dealers about sellers who got negative feedback from buyers who hadn't received their coins yet. When the seller received the coin (which was delayed in the mail), the seller couldn't retract his negative feedback and was truly sorry.
Feedback is not a part of the contract, but is a customer service issue as it applies to the seller. If sellers hold my positive feedback hostage, I deem that bad customer service and will not do business with such a seller. I understand the plight of the seller as I sell many coins on eBay as well. However, once the buyer has paid for the item, I leave positive feedback immediately because I feel that it is the right thing to do. That is the type of customer service that I offer. Other sellers are under no legal obligation to do the same, however, I started this thread to let them know that, in my humble opinion, waiting to leave feedback until you receive it from the buyer leaves a bad taste in the mouth of many potential future customers.
On a side note, I have received such crappy customer service from most coin dealers, whether it be on line or in person, that the response to my initial statement does not surprise me. Most of the dealers just do not seem to care that they give crappy customer service. But don't take my word for it ... ask around.