<< <i>I am sick and tired of paying for an auction w/in 2 minutes of its end and having the seller refuse to give me positive feedback until I leave it for him. I am taking the risk by sending the money before receiving the coin ... I have completed my obligation first ... and I deserve positive feedback immediately, or at least w/in a reasonable period of time. I am tired of receiving emails after the fact saying "Leave positive email for me and I'll do the same for you."
I will buy coins from dealers with a couple of negs, because S41T happens. However, I will never buy anything again from the dealers who have held my positive feedback hostage. End of rant >>
Fletcher, how much selling have you done on eBay? I have 100% + after 800 some different transactions, about a third of that selling, and it took me a while to realize how powerless the seller is when disputes arrise from a crazy or badly informed buyer: as mentioned in an earlier note, payPal will take the disputed money out of your account even though the buyer has your coin, and, credit card payments can also be reversed. It allows for all sorts of mischief at the sellers expense as many disputes go on indefinately, I've heard.
For example, I have a 7 day no-question return policy. One buyer contacted me several weeks after receiving his coin, threatening to leave negative feedback because "the coin I sent him was not what he thought he was getting" (it was a PCGS holdered SBA, solid for grade). Had I left positive feedback upon receipt of payment, I would have lost the leverage to compel him to at least listen to my side of the transaction.
. Delayed posting of feedback encourages both parties to talk before posting, and in this case, we talked, I did accept the return way late, and the buyer hopefully learned not to bid on an item he wasn't sure ne wanted.
I know one can answer negatives but these responses only show up if one takes the time to go through sometimes pages and pages of feedbacks to get the full story, yet the negative stays on one's home page summary indefinately
What's so wrong with delayed feedback? When I buy a coin, I leave feedback immediately unpon receipt unless there is a problem, which is very rare. When I sell, I wait about two or three weeks, then leave feedback for all those who left feedback for me.
If this is not fair, or if there is a reason to expect feedback upon payment that I'n mot aware of, please let me know. Rob
Modern dollars are like children - before you know it they'll be all grown up.....
I'm sorry, I now see that this was a rant thread. My mistake. Thus most of the posts here are completely irrelevant. Your purpose in your rant was, I suppose, to express your dismay at a pet peev.
It was an excellent rant, Fletcher. I feel differently, and I try not to treat my pet peevs as if they were moral issues.
Edited to add: I'm very sorry I annoyed you. Please accept my apology.
<< <i>Who cares? Ebay feedback is BS anyway (especially for buyers).
I'm just curious... Would you buy from a seller with a very poor feedback record? >>
No.
The principal viability of feedback is in respect of sellers IMO. A buyer's feedback does not seem to be very important, other than alerting the seller that the buyer may not honor the transaction.
I've been blocked by a few sellers (mostly because of a complaint I aired on these boards last year), but it is not of concern to me (I've actually asked a few sellers to block me so I don't mistakenly buy from them).
Im a strong Ebay coin buyer, and have been burned a few times in the process. I also will not hesitate to return a coin if I don't like it when received. I've learned to buy only from honest sellers who offer a "no questions asked" return policy. Live and learn.
Bottom line is that, as a buyer, I'm not concerned when or if sellers leave feedback. Most do. It's always positive unless there was a problem with the transaction. I'm not reluctant to NEG a bad seller, and the threat of retalatory feedback is of no concern to me. I sense that most buyers are too leinient, and that more neutrals and NEGs are warranted. >>
I see alot of sellers like to wait for the buyer. I don't have any problem with that. As a possitive from the buyer says they are happy with there purchase.
As quoted above I am a buyer who has been "too leinient". As I have waited over a month for delivery of an item, and still left possitive fb (not glowing but possitive). Seller had 100% didn't want to ruin it for them.
Right now I have 2 purchases, that are complete. Including my leaving possitive feed back for the sellers, but have not rec'd any feedback from them
I have had sellers leave feed back first, Mostly repeat customer BIN buys. It is nice but not necessary for my business.
So I say feedback should be left when both buyer and seller are happy with the sale outcome and not until. pz
(Old man) Look I had a lovely supper, and all I said to my wife was, “That piece of halibut was good enough for Jehovah”.
(Priest) BLASPHEMY he said it again, did you hear him?
As a seller I leave feedback after I have recieved it. There are too many new eBay buyers with almost no feedback that are perfectly willing to give you a neg over virtually nothing. I used to leave feedback first until I got my one and only negative from a guy who was upset that I did not take paypal (clearly stated in the description). Sellers have to have some sort of leverage against frivolous negs. Buyers can still buy no problem with a terrible feedback rating. They have nothing to loose. But sellers do.
For about two years I mailed coins under $20 right to the buyer, before payment was received, if they let me know the method of payment and if their feedback was good.
Never had a problem but decided to quit tempting fate. It really doesn't bother me to leave feedback once the coin is paid for. Most rational people will be able to determine when negative feedbacks are not representative of how the seller operates.
<< <i>If sellers hold my positive feedback hostage, I deem that bad customer service and will not do business with such a seller >>
It sounds like they are probably better off that way.
***
Under no circumstances do I, as a seller, leave feedback for a buyer until they leave feedback for me. As Condor stated, the transaction is not complete until the buyer indicates that they are pleased with the product.
As a buyer, I leave feedback first. Incidentally, I easily buy as much as I sell, so this isn't a case of the high-and-mighty-seller-doesn't-care-about-the-suffering-of-buyers. As a buyer, I fully expect not to receive feedback until I indicate, in that forum, my positive reaction to the transaction.
You stated that as a buyer, YOU are the one assuming the risk. This is not even remotely true: intelligent buyers assume ZERO risk. Yes, if you are naive enough to pay with check or money order or cash, you're assuming a great risk. But if you pay by credit card through PayPal, as ALL buyers should, you are doubly protected: you can file a PayPal chargeback and if PayPal denies it, you can file a credit card chargeback. The SELLER is the one who assumes the risk. I sold a video card on eBay a couple months ago: two days after she paid, she filed a non-receipt chargeback AND DESPITE ME PROVIDING PAYPAL WITH THE SHIPPING/INSURANCE DOCUMENTATION, PAYPAL DECIDED FOR HER! Congrats me, I'm out $250.
Since the buyer is completely protected (doubly so) and the seller is the one who assumes the dangers of fraud and chargebacks, it is the BUYER who is obligated to leave feedback first. So in part I agree with you: the one who assumes the risk should have feedback left for them first. Unfortunately, like everyone who has never sold something on eBay only to have a fraudulent buyer file a chargeback (and win!), you have no idea as to who is really assuming all the risks in a transaction.
I heard they were making a French version of Medal of Honor. I wonder how many hotkeys it'll have for "surrender."
DESPITE ME PROVIDING PAYPAL WITH THE SHIPPING/INSURANCE DOCUMENTATION, PAYPAL DECIDED FOR HER! Congrats me, I'm out $250.
ddink,
I can sympathize with you. No matter how sufficient the evidence on my behalf paypal has sided with the buyer EVERY SINGLE TIME that a case has been brought against me. Paypal buyers can pretty much buy something, keep it, file a case with paypal, win the case (did I say every time?), then keep the product and their money. It is a ridiculous that buyers have this option IMO.
As we can see, there are bad stories and predicaments on both sides of the buyer/seller fence. I love Ebay, but here's the real question:
Is there an auction/sale site that has a better system of feedback or ratings, allowing more truth and fairness than Ebay's? Or is Ebay's the best out there and these are problems that are inherent in the basic practice and largely unavoidable? I was thinking about techniques involving needing to have a certain amount of successful transactions (generically indicated only as successful or unsuccessful) completed before you can leave feedback or something, sort of allowing new people to get the drill so they are less dangerous and ignorant when empowered with feedback. I then thought of problems with that and stopped spending mental energy on the issue, still hoping that Ebay makes some sort of improvement to the process to eliminate the lack of encouragement to always tell the truth and such in the system.
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Comments
<< <i>I am sick and tired of paying for an auction w/in 2 minutes of its end and having the seller refuse to give me positive feedback until I leave it for him. I am taking the risk by sending the money before receiving the coin ... I have completed my obligation first ... and I deserve positive feedback immediately, or at least w/in a reasonable period of time. I am tired of receiving emails after the fact saying "Leave positive email for me and I'll do the same for you."
I will buy coins from dealers with a couple of negs, because S41T happens. However, I will never buy anything again from the dealers who have held my positive feedback hostage.
End of rant
Fletcher, how much selling have you done on eBay? I have 100% + after 800 some different transactions, about a third of that selling, and it took me a while to realize how powerless the seller is when disputes arrise from a crazy or badly informed buyer: as mentioned in an earlier note, payPal will take the disputed money out of your account even though the buyer has your coin, and, credit card payments can also be reversed. It allows for all sorts of mischief at the sellers expense as many disputes go on indefinately, I've heard.
For example, I have a 7 day no-question return policy. One buyer contacted me several weeks after receiving his coin, threatening to leave negative feedback because "the coin I sent him was not what he thought he was getting" (it was a PCGS holdered SBA, solid for grade). Had I left positive feedback upon receipt of payment, I would have lost the leverage to compel him to at least listen to my side of the transaction.
. Delayed posting of feedback encourages both parties to talk before posting, and in this case, we talked, I did accept the return way late, and the buyer hopefully learned not to bid on an item he wasn't sure ne wanted.
I know one can answer negatives but these responses only show up if one takes the time to go through sometimes pages and pages of feedbacks to get the full story, yet the negative stays on one's home page summary indefinately
What's so wrong with delayed feedback? When I buy a coin, I leave feedback immediately unpon receipt unless there is a problem, which is very rare. When I sell, I wait about two or three weeks, then leave feedback for all those who left feedback for me.
If this is not fair, or if there is a reason to expect feedback upon payment that I'n mot aware of, please let me know. Rob
Questions about Ikes? Go to The IKE GROUP WEB SITE
It was an excellent rant, Fletcher. I feel differently, and I try not to treat my pet peevs as if they were moral issues.
Edited to add: I'm very sorry I annoyed you. Please accept my apology.
<< <i>
<< <i>Who cares? Ebay feedback is BS anyway (especially for buyers).
I'm just curious... Would you buy from a seller with a very poor feedback record? >>
No.
The principal viability of feedback is in respect of sellers IMO. A buyer's feedback does not seem to be very important, other than alerting the seller that the buyer may not honor the transaction.
I've been blocked by a few sellers (mostly because of a complaint I aired on these boards last year), but it is not of concern to me (I've actually asked a few sellers to block me so I don't mistakenly buy from them).
Im a strong Ebay coin buyer, and have been burned a few times in the process. I also will not hesitate to return a coin if I don't like it when received. I've learned to buy only from honest sellers who offer a "no questions asked" return policy. Live and learn.
Bottom line is that, as a buyer, I'm not concerned when or if sellers leave feedback. Most do. It's always positive unless there was a problem with the transaction. I'm not reluctant to NEG a bad seller, and the threat of retalatory feedback is of no concern to me. I sense that most buyers are too leinient, and that more neutrals and NEGs are warranted. >>
I see alot of sellers like to wait for the buyer. I don't have any problem with that. As a possitive from the buyer says they are happy with there purchase.
As quoted above I am a buyer who has been "too leinient". As I have waited over a month for delivery of an item, and still left possitive fb (not glowing but possitive). Seller had 100% didn't want to ruin it for them.
Right now I have 2 purchases, that are complete. Including my leaving possitive feed back for the sellers, but have not rec'd any feedback from them
I have had sellers leave feed back first, Mostly repeat customer BIN buys. It is nice but not necessary for my business.
So I say feedback should be left when both buyer and seller are happy with the sale outcome and not until.
pz
(Priest) BLASPHEMY he said it again, did you hear him?
Never had a problem but decided to quit tempting fate. It really doesn't bother me to leave feedback once the coin is paid for. Most rational people will be able to determine when negative feedbacks are not representative of how the seller operates.
<< <i>If sellers hold my positive feedback hostage, I deem that bad customer service and will not do business with such a seller >>
It sounds like they are probably better off that way.
***
Under no circumstances do I, as a seller, leave feedback for a buyer until they leave feedback for me. As Condor stated, the transaction is not complete until the buyer indicates that they are pleased with the product.
As a buyer, I leave feedback first. Incidentally, I easily buy as much as I sell, so this isn't a case of the high-and-mighty-seller-doesn't-care-about-the-suffering-of-buyers. As a buyer, I fully expect not to receive feedback until I indicate, in that forum, my positive reaction to the transaction.
You stated that as a buyer, YOU are the one assuming the risk. This is not even remotely true: intelligent buyers assume ZERO risk. Yes, if you are naive enough to pay with check or money order or cash, you're assuming a great risk. But if you pay by credit card through PayPal, as ALL buyers should, you are doubly protected: you can file a PayPal chargeback and if PayPal denies it, you can file a credit card chargeback. The SELLER is the one who assumes the risk. I sold a video card on eBay a couple months ago: two days after she paid, she filed a non-receipt chargeback AND DESPITE ME PROVIDING PAYPAL WITH THE SHIPPING/INSURANCE DOCUMENTATION, PAYPAL DECIDED FOR HER! Congrats me, I'm out $250.
Since the buyer is completely protected (doubly so) and the seller is the one who assumes the dangers of fraud and chargebacks, it is the BUYER who is obligated to leave feedback first. So in part I agree with you: the one who assumes the risk should have feedback left for them first. Unfortunately, like everyone who has never sold something on eBay only to have a fraudulent buyer file a chargeback (and win!), you have no idea as to who is really assuming all the risks in a transaction.
I send check the next day
I leave positive feed back
Seller does not leave me feedback.
I dont know why.
Camelot
ddink,
I can sympathize with you. No matter how sufficient the evidence on my behalf paypal has sided with the buyer EVERY SINGLE TIME that a case has been brought against me. Paypal buyers can pretty much buy something, keep it, file a case with paypal, win the case (did I say every time?), then keep the product and their money. It is a ridiculous that buyers have this option IMO.
Is there an auction/sale site that has a better system of feedback or ratings, allowing more truth and fairness than Ebay's? Or is Ebay's the best out there and these are problems that are inherent in the basic practice and largely unavoidable? I was thinking about techniques involving needing to have a certain amount of successful transactions (generically indicated only as successful or unsuccessful) completed before you can leave feedback or something, sort of allowing new people to get the drill so they are less dangerous and ignorant when empowered with feedback. I then thought of problems with that and stopped spending mental energy on the issue, still hoping that Ebay makes some sort of improvement to the process to eliminate the lack of encouragement to always tell the truth and such in the system.
WH