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Hi, new member here, have some questions about a quarter eagle

amygdalaamygdala Posts: 4
in U.S. Coin Forum
Hi all,

I've been interested in collecting St Gauden Double Eagles for several years now. I'm a private collector, and collect mostly for fun but sometimes as an investment. I usually buy slabbed pieces sight unseen from heritage as their photo quality is very accomodating. However I do browse flea-bay now and then and saw this quarter eagle unslabbed with the most beautiful luster. Trouble is that I've heard many quarter eagles are fake. WOuld any of the intelligensia on this board care to comment on the validity of this piece?

Comments

  • tjkilliantjkillian Posts: 5,578 ✭✭✭
    One tell tale sign of a fake is the indian's necklace. On your coin, it is not distinct enough. Also, the surfaces look suspect. Those are commonly faked, so I would be cautious and pass on this piece.

    Tom
    Tom

  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭
    Fresh meat!

    Russ, NCNE
    eBay consignment sales | | Collectibles from Resco CCC
  • MikeInFLMikeInFL Posts: 10,188 ✭✭✭✭
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    Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
  • 57cameonut57cameonut Posts: 157
    Dammit Russ !
  • GTOsterGTOster Posts: 870 ✭✭✭
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    Paul
    My E-Bay Auctions
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  • FatManFatMan Posts: 8,977 ✭
    Here's a Big FatMan Welcome to Ya!image

    As a general rule....raw gold and ebay don't mix.
  • BunkerBunker Posts: 3,926 ✭
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    My daughter was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes at the age of 2 (2003). My son was diagnosed with Type 1 when he was 17 on December 31, 2009. We were stunned that another child of ours had been diagnosed. Please, if you don't have a favorite charity, consider giving to the JDRF (Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation)

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  • amygdalaamygdala Posts: 4
    Hi all,

    Thanks for the welcome. Yeah, my gut told me no but it looked so titilating. The piece should probably arrive tomorrow. I'll take some pics under a microscope and post the devices, I suppose the necklace. THis guy has sold about 2 dozen quarter eagles, all with the same luster, and no complaints yet...hmmm. Well thanks again for the warm welcome
  • DorkGirlDorkGirl Posts: 9,994 ✭✭✭
    image
    Becky
  • relayerrelayer Posts: 10,570 ✭

    If you want to image don't buy raw gold on eBay
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    My posts viewed image times
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  • Freak1cFreak1c Posts: 714
    image


    Tom
  • DaveGDaveG Posts: 3,535 ✭
    Indian Head quarter and half eagles are among the most often counterfeited gold coins and are difficult to grade. As a result, unless you're very knowledgeable, I'd stick to coins slabbed by PCGS/NGC/ANACS or only deal with a very reputable dealer.

    When you get the coin, examine the lettering, stars, etc. for weakness or sloppy workmanship, as the counterfeiters usually aren't as good as the Mint. Also, the fine details, such as the Indian's necklace, eagle's breast feathers, etc.

    Of course, if the coin was sold as a MS coin, then it's also possible that it's genuine, but not Mint State, but rather an AU that has been "improved" to appear MS.

    Check out the Southern Gold Society

  • coinguy1coinguy1 Posts: 13,484 ✭✭✭
    Welcome Amygdala.

    I can't tell for certain from the images if the coin is genuine or not. But, if that is copper spots I am seeing on the lower right side of the eagle, the coin is almost certainly real, as I have yet to see copper spots on a fake.

    However, the color and texture/finish do not appear natural to me. So, if the piece is genuine, I believe the images have been enhanced.


    << <i>THis guy has sold about 2 dozen quarter eagles, all with the same luster, and no complaints yet...hmmm >>

    Sadly, that is not necessarily a good indicator. I have seen many sellers on Ebay who sell problem and/or fake coins, but who have excellent feedback from the clueless/unsuspecting buyers.
  • amygdalaamygdala Posts: 4
    How do you know if a coin has been improved? If I brought this coin into a dealer do you think they would take the time to tell me what I have? Can anyone recommend a dealer in NYC?
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,731 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So do we have a cerebral new member or an emotional one?


    Welcome aboard.
    tempus fugit extra philosophiam.
  • DaveGDaveG Posts: 3,535 ✭
    Because of the high rents, there aren't that many dealers to chose from in NYC (Manhattan specifically). You can always go to Stack's, of course; they may take the time to tell you what you have.

    If you're in (or can get to) the NYC suburbs, there is a coin show in Parsippany, NJ on Sunday, 12/4 (it's a first-Sunday-of-the-month show, so don't worry if you can't get to it this Sunday) and I can probably introduce you to a dealer who can tell you what you have.

    There are also coin shows in White Plains, Connecticut and Long Island where you can get opinions from several dealers at once.

    Check out the Southern Gold Society

  • amygdalaamygdala Posts: 4
    I'm a neuroscientist, I study the effects of stress on immune function and neuronal changes that occur as a result. THe amygdala is a major cluster of neurons involved with emotional memory formation. So yeah, cerebral and emotional is me.

    I was told that a very bright light was used to take the pics to show the incuse features which may explain why the field is so bright and clean.
  • sleepersleeper Posts: 100
    Pictures can be very deciving. Those pictures you show seem to be to good to be true. The coins are over lighted so there is no way to see what the real surfaces look like. If you put enough light on any coin it will look good. As for the details the coin does look UNC but as for the genuineness of the coin i cant tell myself.

    Andrew
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,834 ✭✭✭✭✭
    amygdala---Welcome to the boards!!! You'll find a lot of good advice here. One of the best pieces of advice that I can give you is do not buy any gold coin unless it has been slabbed by one of the top three grading services (ANACS, NGC, or PCGS) unless you are an expert. There are many counterfeit and problem (cleaned, tooled, overgraded,etc) coins out there and you don't want to buy them.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • DollarsDollars Posts: 617 ✭
    Greetings.
    Dave
    In Laurel
    MD

    Just a fist full of Dollars
  • coinlieutenantcoinlieutenant Posts: 9,320 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Welcome!!

    Let's keep Cammie away from her as much as possible.

    image

    siliconvalleycoins.com

  • mhammermanmhammerman Posts: 3,769 ✭✭✭
    The main diagnostic for counterfeit indian gold is indeed the necklace. There are other diagnostic things, mostly surface related, but the necklace is the first and easiest indicator. The "dots" of the necklace are in neat little vertical and horizontal rows. The dots are very precise. If these dots are just random and not in a very tidy pattern then that is a very clear counterfeit diagnostic. If the dots are in nice tidy rows then it is likely quite real. The surfaces on the photo look very good but without coin in hand, it's a crap shoot as to the quality of the piece though as coinguy stated, those do look like copper spots on the eagle and that is a diagnostic for the real thing. The easiest diagnostic for wear on the indians is the high cheek bone. If you take the coin and tilt it sideways, you may see flatness on this high point, a clear indicator that the coin has been in circulation. They trade on the auction sites for $270 or so in 61 and upward to $300 in 61. That being said...the indian quarter eagles are surely the most difficult coin to grade, even for pros. If you want to buy this series, buy ngc or pcgs certified only...unless you have too much money. Do not buy raw gold on ebay unless you know the seller and then still don't buy it.

    Good luck
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,834 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Another major diagnostic is the back of the Indian's neck. Many counterfeits have tooling marks there. When the die is cast using a real coin. air bubbles can get trapped there since that's the deepest recess on the coin. The tooling removes this rough area on the die caused by the trapped air but leaves its own telltail signs of fine parallel scratches (tooling).

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

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