Westchester, NY coin show review
roadrunner
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I'm a glutton for punishment and decided to take a 90 mile drive
to the 3 day White Plains show. Due to some scheduling conflicts it was moved to the Rye Town Hilton about 10 miles away. Because it is located close to where I-287 intersects the Merritt Parkway it took me 3 wrong turns to finally find the place. It is exit 10 off of I-287.
For those coming down from New Haven on the Merritt you'll have to back track east away from White Plains. I lost a half hour altogether. Go figure that #699 Westchester Ave (Hilton) is located right across the street from an office park at #800. If you blink like I did you'll pass the hotel entrance well buried on the left. It will be nice to get back to White Plains for the next show.
The ballroom was rather cramped in some of the aisles. Overall lighting was rather poor and too many dealers didn't have adequate table lamps.
As expected, there was very little in quality type coins, early gold, or even generic gold. Scouring the entire floor I was not able to locate a bust half dime to half in MS63 or better. Did not see even one UNC bust half. That was surprising. Offerings in generic gold were slim too, even Saints in 63 to 65. I only saw only one $10 Indian in MS64 and 2 $10 Libs in MS64. There were no MS65's. Tells me they are being accumulated. I did see several MS64 $20 LIbs and a pair of 65's. The 2 PCGS 65's were rather choppy and on most days would not have made 65 imo. 2 dealers had most of the better gold between them. Generic gold was being offered at significantly higher levels than the sheet as most of the dealers felt gold was coming out higher on the next sheet and didn't want to part at current levels. Hence $10 Libs in 64 were now $2000 rather than $1850-$1900. I felt relieved that I had picked up a pair of $10 Indians in PCGS64 just 2 days earlier at older levels.
Gem type was in scarce supply. Jon at Scarsdale coin had a few nice ones. His 1860 dime PCGS PF66 in an old holder was borderline 67 and almost cameo. Very pretty original toning too. An exquisite piece that would not have been out of place in a 67 holder.
New World Rarities had a decent assortment of gold but I the prices were well above what I wanted to pay. I did manage to pick up a nice PQ gem 1892 PCGS MS65 Barber quarter at bid+$20 from them. Old time toning and very choice with no hits or lines on the cheek. I was scared that this one would be unaffordable as it was marked $1200. At only $1000 I couldn't pass on it. A tad less toned and likely would have graded 66. Liked it just the way it was.
Brian Hendleson had a nice assortment of type and gold at the show. He had a beautiful Barber quarter in NGC MS67 but too rich for me at $5500. What I did go for was an 1861 half NGC MS65 for bid+$50 ($4250). Seated halves in 65 are all over the map in quality and price. It did not stand out in the case appearing dusky and well toned. But up close the coin was technically strictly gem in all regards: strike, marks, ok luster, rounded leg with no rub. Only detrimental factor was the toning subdued the luster a notch. Also picked up a reasonable $20 Lib in MS64 while I was at it with Brian. Wanted to pick up a pair of his $10 Libs in MS64 but couldn't quite agree on price.
Another dealer had an interesting 1840 half dime (V-2) with the obv die cracked in 4 directions: full bisection from 12:00 to 6:00 thru the "8" in the date, and then 2 others heading from Liberty's torso out to 3:00 and 9:00. I'd seen a PCGS67 of this variety at Goldberg's June 2002 sale. But that one didn't have the 4th crack heading out to 9:00. So this one a later die state of that V-2.
Very choice MS64 in old holder. Paid 20% over bid for type but felt it was worth it just as a nice type coin with full field luster and nice color. Rev was full MS65. I routinely see MS65's of this type with huge luster gaps in the obv fields that are actually AU's. Full luster coins at anything near sheet are pretty good values.
Also picked up a 1934d Buff in an old PCGS64 holder. Besides the pretty color and bare min of marks, the coin had interesting doubling on fwd. eyebrow, brow, forehead, throat, nose, large feather and date. Probably only strike doubling but a fair value as a choice 64.
Saw a monstrously toned 1866 quarter in NGC MS65 for $4800.
Surface-wise and eye appeal this coin merited a 66 or better grade.
Unfortunately it has the typical soft center strike that tends to hurt the overall appeal. While I'd love such a coin I realize that 99/100 people will pass on the coin because of strike. But nontheless, an amazing looking scarce date quarter. I recall this same coin fetching $8500 or so back in 1989 last time I saw it. I seem to recall that Dean Schmidt had it then. This was the neatest coin I saw at the show. But it has the problem of not being well struck enough for a type coin collector and too high a grade for most date collectors.
Most would prefer either a VF/EF or a GEM Proof. A shame really.
One dealer had a dozen or so better date $10 Libs. He had several 1851-0's in XFish and an 1883-s as I recall. Also a few better date $10 Indians in MS63. This same dealer had a toned 1863 Std dollar in PCGS MS64 that seemed decent. He had no light and I didn't bother to take it to another table. Marked at $9900. Also recall seeing an 1871 seated dollar in PCGS MS64 also.
Saw several NGC proof 65 WM seated halves that were all of average quality in the $2600-2850 range. None caught my eye.
The lighting made finding hairlines quite a challenge. An 1869 half in PCGS MS63 was a tad too scuffy for me with very incomplete field luster. Decent date though. An NGC MS62 1836 RE half seemed interesting. Closer inspection revealed it to be more AUish to me.
An 1853 A&R quarter in 63 was decent but typical for what is out there now. I'm convinced that any really orig and choice 63-65 is worth quite a premium. The last few pieces I've seen were of the latter quality. If a fresh one of these pops in front of me down the road, doubt I could pass on it. Funny how available these were at one time. Maybe 1 piece in 5 or 10 is not screwed with. It's possible that conservation has taken its toll here.
Tougher type coins in decent UNC were not apparent at the show in high grades (no motto, arrows, arrows and rays, stars obverse, no drapery etc.). Better dates were also lacking. Don't recall seeing much at all there. No MS/PF65 or better Barber halves. No high grade Barber quarters either. A few PF and MS65 Barber dimes were to be seen. One dealer had 5 or 6 cases of toned dollars.
He's a fixture at this show. Plenty of NTC gold to look at if you were so inclined. Interesting, there weren't even that many bust dollars out. Normally there are plenty at most shows. Saw a couple of draped bust halves, one an AU58. A slew of 09s VDB's in circ but not as many 1955/55's. One guy had a decent gem 1868 proof set (65/66) with the 25c pedigreed to Eliasberg. Not an orig set but sort of looked close. Again, the lighting was too poor to assess toned proofs. Was asking $35,000.
A reasonable day to check out the market atmosphere. I kept hearing dealers saying there was nothing to buy. They didn't want to give anything away and were mentioning that Baltimore was only a few weeks away.
roadrunner
to the 3 day White Plains show. Due to some scheduling conflicts it was moved to the Rye Town Hilton about 10 miles away. Because it is located close to where I-287 intersects the Merritt Parkway it took me 3 wrong turns to finally find the place. It is exit 10 off of I-287.
For those coming down from New Haven on the Merritt you'll have to back track east away from White Plains. I lost a half hour altogether. Go figure that #699 Westchester Ave (Hilton) is located right across the street from an office park at #800. If you blink like I did you'll pass the hotel entrance well buried on the left. It will be nice to get back to White Plains for the next show.
The ballroom was rather cramped in some of the aisles. Overall lighting was rather poor and too many dealers didn't have adequate table lamps.
As expected, there was very little in quality type coins, early gold, or even generic gold. Scouring the entire floor I was not able to locate a bust half dime to half in MS63 or better. Did not see even one UNC bust half. That was surprising. Offerings in generic gold were slim too, even Saints in 63 to 65. I only saw only one $10 Indian in MS64 and 2 $10 Libs in MS64. There were no MS65's. Tells me they are being accumulated. I did see several MS64 $20 LIbs and a pair of 65's. The 2 PCGS 65's were rather choppy and on most days would not have made 65 imo. 2 dealers had most of the better gold between them. Generic gold was being offered at significantly higher levels than the sheet as most of the dealers felt gold was coming out higher on the next sheet and didn't want to part at current levels. Hence $10 Libs in 64 were now $2000 rather than $1850-$1900. I felt relieved that I had picked up a pair of $10 Indians in PCGS64 just 2 days earlier at older levels.
Gem type was in scarce supply. Jon at Scarsdale coin had a few nice ones. His 1860 dime PCGS PF66 in an old holder was borderline 67 and almost cameo. Very pretty original toning too. An exquisite piece that would not have been out of place in a 67 holder.
New World Rarities had a decent assortment of gold but I the prices were well above what I wanted to pay. I did manage to pick up a nice PQ gem 1892 PCGS MS65 Barber quarter at bid+$20 from them. Old time toning and very choice with no hits or lines on the cheek. I was scared that this one would be unaffordable as it was marked $1200. At only $1000 I couldn't pass on it. A tad less toned and likely would have graded 66. Liked it just the way it was.
Brian Hendleson had a nice assortment of type and gold at the show. He had a beautiful Barber quarter in NGC MS67 but too rich for me at $5500. What I did go for was an 1861 half NGC MS65 for bid+$50 ($4250). Seated halves in 65 are all over the map in quality and price. It did not stand out in the case appearing dusky and well toned. But up close the coin was technically strictly gem in all regards: strike, marks, ok luster, rounded leg with no rub. Only detrimental factor was the toning subdued the luster a notch. Also picked up a reasonable $20 Lib in MS64 while I was at it with Brian. Wanted to pick up a pair of his $10 Libs in MS64 but couldn't quite agree on price.
Another dealer had an interesting 1840 half dime (V-2) with the obv die cracked in 4 directions: full bisection from 12:00 to 6:00 thru the "8" in the date, and then 2 others heading from Liberty's torso out to 3:00 and 9:00. I'd seen a PCGS67 of this variety at Goldberg's June 2002 sale. But that one didn't have the 4th crack heading out to 9:00. So this one a later die state of that V-2.
Very choice MS64 in old holder. Paid 20% over bid for type but felt it was worth it just as a nice type coin with full field luster and nice color. Rev was full MS65. I routinely see MS65's of this type with huge luster gaps in the obv fields that are actually AU's. Full luster coins at anything near sheet are pretty good values.
Also picked up a 1934d Buff in an old PCGS64 holder. Besides the pretty color and bare min of marks, the coin had interesting doubling on fwd. eyebrow, brow, forehead, throat, nose, large feather and date. Probably only strike doubling but a fair value as a choice 64.
Saw a monstrously toned 1866 quarter in NGC MS65 for $4800.
Surface-wise and eye appeal this coin merited a 66 or better grade.
Unfortunately it has the typical soft center strike that tends to hurt the overall appeal. While I'd love such a coin I realize that 99/100 people will pass on the coin because of strike. But nontheless, an amazing looking scarce date quarter. I recall this same coin fetching $8500 or so back in 1989 last time I saw it. I seem to recall that Dean Schmidt had it then. This was the neatest coin I saw at the show. But it has the problem of not being well struck enough for a type coin collector and too high a grade for most date collectors.
Most would prefer either a VF/EF or a GEM Proof. A shame really.
One dealer had a dozen or so better date $10 Libs. He had several 1851-0's in XFish and an 1883-s as I recall. Also a few better date $10 Indians in MS63. This same dealer had a toned 1863 Std dollar in PCGS MS64 that seemed decent. He had no light and I didn't bother to take it to another table. Marked at $9900. Also recall seeing an 1871 seated dollar in PCGS MS64 also.
Saw several NGC proof 65 WM seated halves that were all of average quality in the $2600-2850 range. None caught my eye.
The lighting made finding hairlines quite a challenge. An 1869 half in PCGS MS63 was a tad too scuffy for me with very incomplete field luster. Decent date though. An NGC MS62 1836 RE half seemed interesting. Closer inspection revealed it to be more AUish to me.
An 1853 A&R quarter in 63 was decent but typical for what is out there now. I'm convinced that any really orig and choice 63-65 is worth quite a premium. The last few pieces I've seen were of the latter quality. If a fresh one of these pops in front of me down the road, doubt I could pass on it. Funny how available these were at one time. Maybe 1 piece in 5 or 10 is not screwed with. It's possible that conservation has taken its toll here.
Tougher type coins in decent UNC were not apparent at the show in high grades (no motto, arrows, arrows and rays, stars obverse, no drapery etc.). Better dates were also lacking. Don't recall seeing much at all there. No MS/PF65 or better Barber halves. No high grade Barber quarters either. A few PF and MS65 Barber dimes were to be seen. One dealer had 5 or 6 cases of toned dollars.
He's a fixture at this show. Plenty of NTC gold to look at if you were so inclined. Interesting, there weren't even that many bust dollars out. Normally there are plenty at most shows. Saw a couple of draped bust halves, one an AU58. A slew of 09s VDB's in circ but not as many 1955/55's. One guy had a decent gem 1868 proof set (65/66) with the 25c pedigreed to Eliasberg. Not an orig set but sort of looked close. Again, the lighting was too poor to assess toned proofs. Was asking $35,000.
A reasonable day to check out the market atmosphere. I kept hearing dealers saying there was nothing to buy. They didn't want to give anything away and were mentioning that Baltimore was only a few weeks away.
roadrunner
0
Comments
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
One of the most informative reports I've read in a long time. Thanks !
Would love to see the Barber quarter you picked up !!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
the dealers will have to start to pay more than sheet levels to bring out the good stuff
and be able to buy it
The crappy and rubbed 66's still go unwanted for $7-8K. But as long as there is a CDN stating that one is worth $4200 bid, the one guy that has a "real" one will unfortunately (and more than likely) sell it for $4200 not knowing it's worth closer to $6000 (sight-unseen 66 money).
Expect the rest of the gold market ($1's and $5 Libs) to follow in the footsteps of the $2-1/2's, $10's and $20's. Makes no sense why they should be left behind.
roadrunner
cheap turds these dealers lol
I passed on the Westchester show even though only 2 hour rountrip away from me in favor of upcoming Baltimore show which is 8 plus hours roundtrip from me.
roadrunner
I'll be there tomorrow.
Check out the Southern Gold Society
<< <i>Saw a monstrously toned 1866 quarter in NGC MS65 for $4800.
Surface-wise and eye appeal this coin merited a 66 or better grade.
Unfortunately it has the typical soft center strike that tends to hurt the overall appeal. While I'd love such a coin I realize that 99/100 people will pass on the coin because of strike. But nontheless, an amazing looking scarce date quarter. I recall this same coin fetching $8500 or so back in 1989 last time I saw it. I seem to recall that Dean Schmidt had it then. This was the neatest coin I saw at the show. But it has the problem of not being well struck enough for a type coin collector and too high a grade for most date collectors.
Most would prefer either a VF/EF or a GEM Proof. A shame really.
>>
I'm told there are unc 1866s with full strikes, but I've never seen one. More likely misattributed proofs we're talking about here. Some of the uncs come with severe die striae which detract. $4800 seems reasonably priced for a gemmy 65, hopefully the coin will show up in Baltimore somewhere so I can see it
We do have our strange limits!
At least I pulled out of the FUN show in favor of Baltimore.
I just found out that I am going to miss Michael Walsh who will not be in Baltimore! What a classy guy.