Did you'all see HRH's idea in the Q&A forum a few months ago? He suggested to continue with 10 Unc grades, and just shift the scale to 100, not increase the # of unc grades.
>>>>Perhaps "PQ" or monster coin should better be left up to the collector and not the grading services
the problem with always leaving it to the collector is like
remeber when you were a kid and had your first sip of wiskey...uck
but over time people usually evolve to appreciate the finer things in life...if one wanted to make the hobby expand one should want to level the playing field a little for newbies where as the learning curve wasnt so steep.....slabing did that....but only to a certain extent....a continuation of leveling would be to show on the holder what the hobby calls....a coin really worth streaching for or a so so coin......remember we have a fixed supply of coins ( pre 2005 ) personally id work on the demand side of the equation if i wanted to further the hobby.........not altering the supply side where as certain people will suck hundreds of millions out of the hobby
i can assure you this 100 point system is all about wall street greed
ITS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY.........YOURS AND MINE.........THEY WANT TO TAKE SOME OF OURS WITH THIS NEW APPROACH
*********THINK ABOUT IT...ITS REALLY EASY TO SEE...CLEAR AS A BELL!!!!
my goal is to find the monsters and i go where they are but i sometimes miss some.... so if you have any and want to sell IM THE BUYER FOR THEM!!!
out of rockets ...out of bullets...switching to harsh language
<< <i>I do like that there will be more room for a accurate grade. Right now there are only 10 grades for a mint state coin which I think is somewhat restrictive. The one point difference makes a 10 fold price increase will go away which is a good thing. >>
JB, I see it as more room for inaccurate (not accurate) grades.
How will having additional numerical grade choices make for more accurate grading, when we have the inconsistency problems that we do now (with fewer grade options)? The result of a 100 point scale would be even more grade choices upon which to disagree and be inconsistent with.
<< <i>In my opinion, the one benefit would be to further qualify the quality of a specific coin >>
Todd, additional points on a grading scale would have the exact opposite effect of "further qualifying the quality of a specific coin".
<< <i>Instead of having a “PQ” designation, one would use the above grades would provide this designation. >>
Sorry, but I think you're dreaming. No matter how many points a grading scale might utilize, sellers will always believe and/or act as if some of their coins are under-graded or "PQ" for the assigned grade. It's all about human nature and subjectivity.
Like any business decision, money is the driving motivator. Suppose PCGS went ahead with this 100 point system and most reject it. PCGS, like what happened with the NGC Star, "W", "T" and "B" designation, would lose money and in the end go back to the 70 point system.
That is why I think the Fun Show luncheon is a good idea. PCGS will have to weigh the investment into the 100 point system against the acceptance of the coin industry.
I am on my way out of the office. Hope you all have a good Veterens day and weekend.
>>>>>PCGS, like what happened with the NGC Star, "W", "T" and "B" designation
sorry to disagree with you but the star has indeed worked and it should have worked as it does indentify a higher quality
now the w and t and the like was a bad idea and it went bye bye quickly...you dont have to tell people its with or toned ...their intent was to amke coins trade better sight unseen.......but these are not stocks...there is subjectivity
keep in mind both services benefit one another with all this undergrading....it goes here ...then here again...then here again...then here again...then across the street.....then across the street.....then across the street.....then makes the grade... then across the street for crossover.... then again...then again....then again...then boom....right where it should of been...only 12 regardes later........and both services made nice money
kinda foolish we even stand for it but thats the system we have
AND THE ONLY REASON THEY WANT TO CHANGE IT IS BECAUSE THEY HAVE SEEN FOR QUITE A WHILE THE END IS COMING DUE TO A 70 POINT CEILING..........
THIS IS ALL ABOUT WALL STREET...........AND BIG MONEY
OUR MONEY
and nobody with a brain in their head can say different.....its all about big money!!!!...our money
sort of reminds me of a sea lampre who latches on and sucks your blood...little by little!!!!!!!!
make no mistake a fish has a fixed supply of blood ...this market can really grow and it will..........so all the servies want to do is suck the blood out and make sure that they replace it with newbies to replace it so they can suck more blood out
ITS ALL ABOUT MONEY AND GREED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
my goal is to find the monsters and i go where they are but i sometimes miss some.... so if you have any and want to sell IM THE BUYER FOR THEM!!!
out of rockets ...out of bullets...switching to harsh language
>>>>1. Is the goal to have a more accurate grade attached to the coin (instead of terms like PQ)?
think about this...
we all know gradeflation is a fact......correct
fact.... pq stands for a coin that is very premium for the grade and in fact many times suggest a higher grade....correct
thus
pq coins were not pq 2 to 5 years previous......and were coins that were solid for the grade
changing the system will only let gradeflation continue as we approach the ceiling of 70 which would stop gradeflation
which is exactly what the services dont want as they will lose their money tree of the last 20 years
now without them might we be in trouble....no...they will keep doing the moderns ect and doing a service
but what i said before they could do to better define the " rank" of a coin ...which btw is what ive said the services have been doing all along ..........ranking coins
the services have fooked many a collector who didnt understand the " game "
case in point..and it happens all the time in every series...not just my series.........guy collects for 15 years ( 1983 to 1998 )....dies....in 2003 his daughter brings her inheritance dads of her dads coins to the local coin shop and brings 100 of very beautifully toned washington carvers all in 65 holders......the counterman shows her the sheets and says look the buy sell spread is 28 buy and 33 ask........he says " look i`ll tell you what i wil do........i`ll give you 30 each ...and i hope that helps you........boom she walks out the door with her 3,000 check..........he picks the best 3 and sends them in......all 3 go ms 67............and sell the next day to larry shepherd for 48,000
now who got screwed because of this gradeflation......now thats a shame......and the coin shop owner buys a new million dollar house with the other 97 coins
now you say where did the services share...they didnt really...why....because they were beyond pq for the 67 coins........but they created 48,000 worth of wealth on the first 3 coins.........and the sbumission was timed perfectly....how you say could be many reasons.....one thing is for sure if pcgs would of been greding in " stupid mode" they might of taken the 3 coins and 65...66...67 them....and they then would of made many more submissions of the 3 coins
in any event they did make a killing on the other 97 coins
remember this 100 point system is all about the money
WALL STREET GREED>>>>>>>>>>>>SHOW ME THE MONEY JERRY
monsterman
my goal is to find the monsters and i go where they are but i sometimes miss some.... so if you have any and want to sell IM THE BUYER FOR THEM!!!
out of rockets ...out of bullets...switching to harsh language
Here is a possible 100 point structure: 1 to 58 the same MS60 = MS60 to 63 = D- MS61 = MS64 to 67 = D MS62 = MS68 to 71 = D+ MS63 = MS72 to 75 = C- MS64 = MS76 to 79 = C+ MS65 = MS80 to 83 = B- MS66 = MS84 to 87 = B MS67 = MS88 to 91 = B+ MS68 = MS92 to 95 = A- MS69 = MS96 to 99 = A MS70 = MS100 ==== A+
It would be too much like getting a report card on a collector's ability to grade coins!
Hey now, there's a thought! Junior has a D- in collecting coins!
And we could see who makes "Teacher's Pet" of the week!
Didn't I post to this thread already?
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
Comments
He suggested to continue with 10 Unc grades, and just shift the scale to 100, not increase the # of unc grades.
I agree with you on you last post.
Perhaps "PQ" or monster coin should better be left up to the collector and not the grading services.
Todd
800.954.0270
>>>>Perhaps "PQ" or monster coin should better be left up to the collector and not the grading services
the problem with always leaving it to the collector is like
remeber when you were a kid and had your first sip of wiskey...uck
but over time people usually evolve to appreciate the finer things in life...if one wanted to make the hobby expand one should want to level the playing field a little for newbies where as the learning curve wasnt so steep.....slabing did that....but only to a certain extent....a continuation of leveling would be to show on the holder what the hobby calls....a coin really worth streaching for or a so so coin......remember we have a fixed supply of coins ( pre 2005 ) personally id work on the demand side of the equation if i wanted to further the hobby.........not altering the supply side where as certain people will suck hundreds of millions out of the hobby
i can assure you this 100 point system is all about wall street greed
ITS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY.........YOURS AND MINE.........THEY WANT TO TAKE SOME OF OURS WITH THIS NEW APPROACH
*********THINK ABOUT IT...ITS REALLY EASY TO SEE...CLEAR AS A BELL!!!!
out of rockets ...out of bullets...switching to harsh language
<< <i>I do like that there will be more room for a accurate grade. Right now there are only 10 grades for a mint state coin which I think is somewhat restrictive. The one point difference makes a 10 fold price increase will go away which is a good thing. >>
JB, I see it as more room for inaccurate (not accurate) grades.
How will having additional numerical grade choices make for more accurate grading, when we have the inconsistency problems that we do now (with fewer grade options)? The result of a 100 point scale would be even more grade choices upon which to disagree and be inconsistent with.
<< <i>In my opinion, the one benefit would be to further qualify the quality of a specific coin >>
Todd, additional points on a grading scale would have the exact opposite effect of "further qualifying the quality of a specific coin".
<< <i>Instead of having a “PQ” designation, one would use the above grades would provide this designation. >>
Sorry, but I think you're dreaming. No matter how many points a grading scale might utilize, sellers will always believe and/or act as if some of their coins are under-graded or "PQ" for the assigned grade. It's all about human nature and subjectivity.
Like any business decision, money is the driving motivator. Suppose PCGS went ahead with this 100 point system and most reject it. PCGS, like what happened with the NGC Star, "W", "T" and "B" designation, would lose money and in the end go back to the 70 point system.
That is why I think the Fun Show luncheon is a good idea. PCGS will have to weigh the investment into the 100 point system against the acceptance of the coin industry.
I am on my way out of the office. Hope you all have a good Veterens day and weekend.
Todd
800.954.0270
100 point system translated: "We didn't know what we were doing for the last 20 years. Now we want to do it right."
I wonder if I'll get invited to lunch when something so not-controversial is on the slate?
>>>>>PCGS, like what happened with the NGC Star, "W", "T" and "B" designation
sorry to disagree with you but the star has indeed worked and it should have worked as it does indentify a higher quality
now the w and t and the like was a bad idea and it went bye bye quickly...you dont have to tell people its with or toned ...their intent was to amke coins trade better sight unseen.......but these are not stocks...there is subjectivity
keep in mind both services benefit one another with all this undergrading....it goes here ...then here again...then here again...then here again...then across the street.....then across the street.....then across the street.....then makes the grade... then across the street for crossover.... then again...then again....then again...then boom....right where it should of been...only 12 regardes later........and both services made nice money
kinda foolish we even stand for it but thats the system we have
AND THE ONLY REASON THEY WANT TO CHANGE IT IS BECAUSE THEY HAVE SEEN FOR QUITE A WHILE THE END IS COMING DUE TO A 70 POINT CEILING..........
THIS IS ALL ABOUT WALL STREET...........AND BIG MONEY
OUR MONEY
and nobody with a brain in their head can say different.....its all about big money!!!!...our money
sort of reminds me of a sea lampre who latches on and sucks your blood...little by little!!!!!!!!
make no mistake a fish has a fixed supply of blood ...this market can really grow and it will..........so all the servies want to do is suck the blood out and make sure that they replace it with newbies to replace it so they can suck more blood out
ITS ALL ABOUT MONEY AND GREED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
out of rockets ...out of bullets...switching to harsh language
Think that line comes from Bill Gates talking about the latest Windows update
>>>>1. Is the goal to have a more accurate grade attached to the coin (instead of terms like PQ)?
think about this...
we all know gradeflation is a fact......correct
fact.... pq stands for a coin that is very premium for the grade and in fact many times suggest a higher grade....correct
thus
pq coins were not pq 2 to 5 years previous......and were coins that were solid for the grade
changing the system will only let gradeflation continue as we approach the ceiling of 70 which would stop gradeflation
which is exactly what the services dont want as they will lose their money tree of the last 20 years
now without them might we be in trouble....no...they will keep doing the moderns ect and doing a service
but what i said before they could do to better define the " rank" of a coin ...which btw is what ive said the services have been doing all along ..........ranking coins
the services have fooked many a collector who didnt understand the " game "
case in point..and it happens all the time in every series...not just my series.........guy collects for 15 years ( 1983 to 1998 )....dies....in 2003 his daughter brings her inheritance dads of her dads coins to the local coin shop and brings 100 of very beautifully toned washington carvers all in 65 holders......the counterman shows her the sheets and says look the buy sell spread is 28 buy and 33 ask........he says " look i`ll tell you what i wil do........i`ll give you 30 each ...and i hope that helps you........boom she walks out the door with her 3,000 check..........he picks the best 3 and sends them in......all 3 go ms 67............and sell the next day to larry shepherd for 48,000
now who got screwed because of this gradeflation......now thats a shame......and the coin shop owner buys a new million dollar house with the other 97 coins
now you say where did the services share...they didnt really...why....because they were beyond pq for the 67 coins........but they created 48,000 worth of wealth on the first 3 coins.........and the sbumission was timed perfectly....how you say could be many reasons.....one thing is for sure if pcgs would of been greding in " stupid mode" they might of taken the 3 coins and 65...66...67 them....and they then would of made many more submissions of the 3 coins
in any event they did make a killing on the other 97 coins
remember this 100 point system is all about the money
WALL STREET GREED>>>>>>>>>>>>SHOW ME THE MONEY JERRY
monsterman
out of rockets ...out of bullets...switching to harsh language
1 to 58 the same
MS60 = MS60 to 63 = D-
MS61 = MS64 to 67 = D
MS62 = MS68 to 71 = D+
MS63 = MS72 to 75 = C-
MS64 = MS76 to 79 = C+
MS65 = MS80 to 83 = B-
MS66 = MS84 to 87 = B
MS67 = MS88 to 91 = B+
MS68 = MS92 to 95 = A-
MS69 = MS96 to 99 = A
MS70 = MS100 ==== A+
It would be too much like getting a report card on a collector's ability to grade coins!
Hey now, there's a thought! Junior has a D- in collecting coins!
And we could see who makes "Teacher's Pet" of the week!
Didn't I post to this thread already?
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection