Summary/conclusion to the Mercury Dime poll(s)
mercurydimeguy
Posts: 4,625 ✭✭✭✭
Here's an interesting observation of the same coins. It's fascinating to see how the same coins could potentially sell at so many different price points depending on what numerically graded piece of plastic it wound up being housed in at any moment in time.
This poll, in itself, brings to life why so many people, and registry set collectors, simply buy plastic. If you bought the coin (raw, for instance), then you might buy it as a 66 but when you go and sell it (still raw, presumably) someone might only grade it a 64.
With PCGS plastic you can at least be somewhat assured that the price will stay in the coin's grade range even if the actual coin's grade is lower than the plastic states.
When a coin is already in a piece of plastic, a majority of people could rationalize the coin in that piece of plastic. I've watched them do it over, and over, and over again. No matter how weak of a coin for the grade a registry set collector thinks a specific coin is, given some Pops in some sets are so low, a collector that wants to rank high up on the list will be tempted to buy a higher numerically graded piece of plastic instead of a nicer coin in lower numerically graded piece of plastic. I'm not bashing anyone -- just simply stating what I've observed.
Conversely, the tried/true collectors that don't fall in to the above trap typically won't buy those coins. So what's interesting is that the best registry sets that wind up being built and sold for MEGA $$, probably don't actually have the nicest examples of any specific coin...but they do have the highest numerically graded pieces of plastic.
.....just fascinating
Accoding to PCGS, here are the prices of the coins at different grades. One of the 3 coins has been in 3 different PCGS graded holders and in each holder (including it's current) peole are able to rationlize the grade. In fact, I think it has at least 1 more point in it
1917-D
63FB 64FB 65FB 66FB 67FB (grade)
------ ------- ------- --------- --------
515 1350 6500 13500 - (PCGS price guide)
------ ------- ------- --------- --------
26% 26% 33% 15% 0% (% of people's votes)
1917-S
63FB 64FB 65FB 66FB 67FB
------ ------- ------- --------- --------
190 425 1300 2400 7500
------ ------- ------- --------- --------
9% 40% 31% 16% 4%
1918-D
63FB 64FB 65FB 66FB 67FB
------ ------- ------- --------- --------
1375 3500 35000 150000 -
------ ------- ------- --------- --------
13% 39% 22% 22% 4%
THANKS ALL FOR PATICIPATING
PS. I think time and seeing A LOT of coins is beginning to knock some sense in to me
This poll, in itself, brings to life why so many people, and registry set collectors, simply buy plastic. If you bought the coin (raw, for instance), then you might buy it as a 66 but when you go and sell it (still raw, presumably) someone might only grade it a 64.
With PCGS plastic you can at least be somewhat assured that the price will stay in the coin's grade range even if the actual coin's grade is lower than the plastic states.
When a coin is already in a piece of plastic, a majority of people could rationalize the coin in that piece of plastic. I've watched them do it over, and over, and over again. No matter how weak of a coin for the grade a registry set collector thinks a specific coin is, given some Pops in some sets are so low, a collector that wants to rank high up on the list will be tempted to buy a higher numerically graded piece of plastic instead of a nicer coin in lower numerically graded piece of plastic. I'm not bashing anyone -- just simply stating what I've observed.
Conversely, the tried/true collectors that don't fall in to the above trap typically won't buy those coins. So what's interesting is that the best registry sets that wind up being built and sold for MEGA $$, probably don't actually have the nicest examples of any specific coin...but they do have the highest numerically graded pieces of plastic.
.....just fascinating
Accoding to PCGS, here are the prices of the coins at different grades. One of the 3 coins has been in 3 different PCGS graded holders and in each holder (including it's current) peole are able to rationlize the grade. In fact, I think it has at least 1 more point in it
1917-D
63FB 64FB 65FB 66FB 67FB (grade)
------ ------- ------- --------- --------
515 1350 6500 13500 - (PCGS price guide)
------ ------- ------- --------- --------
26% 26% 33% 15% 0% (% of people's votes)
1917-S
63FB 64FB 65FB 66FB 67FB
------ ------- ------- --------- --------
190 425 1300 2400 7500
------ ------- ------- --------- --------
9% 40% 31% 16% 4%
1918-D
63FB 64FB 65FB 66FB 67FB
------ ------- ------- --------- --------
1375 3500 35000 150000 -
------ ------- ------- --------- --------
13% 39% 22% 22% 4%
THANKS ALL FOR PATICIPATING
PS. I think time and seeing A LOT of coins is beginning to knock some sense in to me
0
Comments
<< <i>So what are the grades? >>
What they are now, what have they been in the past or what do I think they'll be in the (near imminent) future?
Coin grades are like transformers
There are many who don't remember Mint State before plastic, and pictures can not take the place of physical inspection.
Today, it is almost impossible not to have some bias based on the plastic. And based on how the prices have spread in the last twenty years for a one point change, I think refined knowledge and experience is now even more valuable than before.
In 1990, there were many of us who learned to determine a Choice (63, shot 4) from a Gem (solid 65), and that knowledge payed well. Today, how many of us know the difference between a 64.5 (say a 1 in 7 to 10 shot at 65), a 64.7 (say a 1 in 3 to 4 shot), and a 65.1 (a 65 almost every day). Yet many people pay up a grade and could very well be buying a coffin.
Sure, we may know a real monster when it presents itself, but usually we aren't the only ones so the coin is already there. The more experienced know a dog too, and won't touch them, unless it's a gift or a charity.
Having the best coin for a given grade may well come to play in force again, but for some the numbers on the plastic will always mean more.
In looking through your threads again, I felt that I overgraded one (for what I would pay anyway), although it may be nicer in hand. I too would like to know the grade (and any grade history) on these pieces, but I would certainly understand if you didn't share.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
Anyway, here are my thoughts/grades, and current PCGS grades:
The 17-D is one of the nicest examples of this date I've ever handled. It has PL fields on the obverse, something I've never seen on a 17-D before. Most who have handled a number of 17-D's before will tell you that by and large they are somewhat problematic dimes...die cracks, and other problems.
This dime just came back from grading and is currently in a 64FB holder. I wouldn't have been shocked if it came back in a 66FB holder and would have no problem rationlizing this coin in a 66FB holder. Certainly, I will tell you, it will wind up at least in a 65FB eventually.
THe 17-S is a very high end for the grade 65FB. It's not as nice as a the 17-D, but you guessed it (or not), it's currently in a PCGS 65FB holder. Could I rationlize it in a 66FB holder? Yes...but it's not as nice as the 17-D, for sure!
The 18-D initially graded 62FB. Resubmitted and it graded a 63FB. I just got it back from grading and it's now in a 64FB holder, and I will tell you that it's got 1 more point in it. BUT it's an 18-D!! And most Merc guys know that in 65FB or better, the real 3 keys are 19-D, 19-S and 18-D (not the 16-D). Eventually it will find its way in to a 65FB holder, if not by me then by someone else, but remember this coin and mark my word that one day you'll see if for sale somewhere and it will be in a 65FB holder.
It's been fun -- and how's that for honesty in sharing some battle stories from the PCGS grading front
I disagree. Certainly some "finest graded" coins are accurately graded.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>So what's interesting is that the best registry sets that wind up being built and sold for MEGA $$, probably don't actually have the nicest examples of any specific coin
I disagree. Certainly some "finest graded" coins are accurately graded. >>
Sure, if you were to say currently finest graded
I could justify the 17d as a 65. It's the creme of the three IMO, and I think if I was a buyer, I would step up on that one. 17d's rarely look like that, and IMO it's a liner ... a one in five.
The 17s I have a hard time with as a 65, but I've seen worse. Hell I own a couple (not that date though). As a 66 I would consider it dead ... plankton for whales.
And frankly judging by the pictures, I have a hard time with the 18d as a 64, much less a shot 5. Maybe I'm missing something, but get that one in a five holder and I want you to physically be my guest to inspect all my better Merc's for upgrade (or grading). I'll pay. I like to feed the whales.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
I object!!!
So by your definition a tried/true collector has to be an expert grader? I think not.
There is nothing wrong with buying plastic. Frankly I don't have the "eye" to grade within hairs and sometimes from one grade to another. Before plastic, someone like me was at the mercy of the honesty of the dealer. That doesn't mean that I don't look at the coin, but not having the skills (whether they could be developed or not is debatable) to determine a 64 from a 65, I like the idea that a professional company has rendered an opinion on the coin I am holding.
Is this any different than having Laura or Mark render an opinion on a raw coin? It's still not me determining the grade but I do decide if I am going to purchase the coin for my collection or not.
Just a few words from the other side.
Joe.
UncleJoe, I have no problem with buying plastic. I own heaps of it
And I didn't think I was outwardly putting down those who do...
<<With PCGS plastic you can at least be somewhat assured that the price will stay in the coin's grade range even if the actual coin's grade is lower than the plastic states...
I think the market price acceptance of a piece of plastic is definitely one benefit of PCGS or other plastic.
Great feedback, though, Uncle Joe and Todd.