Options
P.A.N. Show...............kinda slowwwwwwwwww.
keets
Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
Got home about an hour ago from the P.A.N. Show and spending about 4 hours there today was plenty. The key phrase seems to be "what was missing" from the show, not what was there. Missing were many dealers, most of the collectors and any semblance of nice choice coins with reasonable prices. On a scale of 1-10 I would rate the show as a dissappointing four.
But so much for the gloom and doom........................
I rode down with couple local dealers and a fellow club member who specializes in MilitaryPaymentCoupons. I checked in with Ptvetter and made what turned into the first of several trips around the room. My first stop was to check out a dealer who was holding a nice PCGS MS63 Jefferson Nickel, 1949-D/S. He also showed me a recent acquisition another PCGS Jefferson variety, 1943-P 3/2 holdered at MS65FS. The coin was about the strongest example of the overdate I've seen with perhaps 90% of the phantom "2" visible with a 5X glass. Sweet coin indeed. I then commenced my hunt for what's turned into a 1++ year search for a nice 1805 Half-Cent in a grade XF or above. There were several G-VF coins to be found but even the best of those had problems. The nicest I saw had a mean rim ding to the left of the date while the worst had corrosion/porosity that just made it look lke crap. I'm hunkering down for a long hunt!!!
I happened to see a few So-Called Dollars that medal/ancient dealers had in there cases but I wasn't certain enough of what they were to pay what seemed like high retail prices; spotted a nice non 1875-S Twenty Center, an AU58 PCGS 1875-CC but it was a bit too dark for me; there was quite a bit of raw, early copper, especially Large Cents; loads and loads of circulated Barber and Seated material as well as the usual assortment of white Commems and Morgans; just very few coins of any kind that really stood out. I had a couple dealers tell me that table numbers were lower than in the past because some guys chose to attend a St. Louis Show, but I suspect from collector attendance/availability of nicer coins that things are indeed starting to slow somewhat. My hunch, shared by others I spoke with is simple-----prices have been pushed up by the flood of nicer coins in the past several years and now those coins are gone and fewer are coming out of hiding while collectors have gotten more selective and price conscious. The end result is dealers asking PQ prices for marginal coins and collectors aren't stepping up to the plate. Something has to give and the dealers are starting to sweat, JMHO.
Forum members in attendance were few and far between. I met katysok who had a real nice "giveaway" that everyone missed, Ptvetter and of course, his sidekick, VAM44 as well as another guy who I can't seem to place a name to. I also chatted briefly with Mr. Ron Nelson of OhioCoinExpo fame. He seemed a bit bummed about the whole show situation but was actively looking/buying coins, and he told me he's still calling auctions around town. I'm glad he's staying tied into the hobby, perhaps he just needs a rest like we all do from time to time. Though the show may have been less than expected, it's still nice to look at coins and meet whoever comes to a show.
We're heading to large country auction tomorrow, leaving at 4:30 to view a 500 lot grouping from a 40 year collection. That be fun but I expect stiff prices from the farm boys!!!! I figure my edge will be to take along some reference material with the hope of picking some Low Hanging Fruit™-----at least I'll have something to read.
Stay safe and have fun.
Al H.
But so much for the gloom and doom........................I rode down with couple local dealers and a fellow club member who specializes in MilitaryPaymentCoupons. I checked in with Ptvetter and made what turned into the first of several trips around the room. My first stop was to check out a dealer who was holding a nice PCGS MS63 Jefferson Nickel, 1949-D/S. He also showed me a recent acquisition another PCGS Jefferson variety, 1943-P 3/2 holdered at MS65FS. The coin was about the strongest example of the overdate I've seen with perhaps 90% of the phantom "2" visible with a 5X glass. Sweet coin indeed. I then commenced my hunt for what's turned into a 1++ year search for a nice 1805 Half-Cent in a grade XF or above. There were several G-VF coins to be found but even the best of those had problems. The nicest I saw had a mean rim ding to the left of the date while the worst had corrosion/porosity that just made it look lke crap. I'm hunkering down for a long hunt!!!
I happened to see a few So-Called Dollars that medal/ancient dealers had in there cases but I wasn't certain enough of what they were to pay what seemed like high retail prices; spotted a nice non 1875-S Twenty Center, an AU58 PCGS 1875-CC but it was a bit too dark for me; there was quite a bit of raw, early copper, especially Large Cents; loads and loads of circulated Barber and Seated material as well as the usual assortment of white Commems and Morgans; just very few coins of any kind that really stood out. I had a couple dealers tell me that table numbers were lower than in the past because some guys chose to attend a St. Louis Show, but I suspect from collector attendance/availability of nicer coins that things are indeed starting to slow somewhat. My hunch, shared by others I spoke with is simple-----prices have been pushed up by the flood of nicer coins in the past several years and now those coins are gone and fewer are coming out of hiding while collectors have gotten more selective and price conscious. The end result is dealers asking PQ prices for marginal coins and collectors aren't stepping up to the plate. Something has to give and the dealers are starting to sweat, JMHO.
Forum members in attendance were few and far between. I met katysok who had a real nice "giveaway" that everyone missed, Ptvetter and of course, his sidekick, VAM44 as well as another guy who I can't seem to place a name to. I also chatted briefly with Mr. Ron Nelson of OhioCoinExpo fame. He seemed a bit bummed about the whole show situation but was actively looking/buying coins, and he told me he's still calling auctions around town. I'm glad he's staying tied into the hobby, perhaps he just needs a rest like we all do from time to time. Though the show may have been less than expected, it's still nice to look at coins and meet whoever comes to a show.
We're heading to large country auction tomorrow, leaving at 4:30 to view a 500 lot grouping from a 40 year collection. That be fun but I expect stiff prices from the farm boys!!!! I figure my edge will be to take along some reference material with the hope of picking some Low Hanging Fruit™-----at least I'll have something to read.
Stay safe and have fun.Al H.
0
Comments
did you see any gold coins that caught your eye and held it?
Low Hanging Fruit™--I like that expression and use it a lot at work.
there was quite a bit of gold, more raw than certified by ANY TPG which doesn't bode well from my perspective. the ones that stick out are a few raw 1926 Sesquicentennial $2-1/2's priced at well over $1000',along with an 1802 Bust Half-Dollar(i think that's what it was) priced at $6500 and in a 2X2 cardboard flip. i just shook my head and thought "something isn't right" with those coins. i saw plenty of raw foreign gold, large and small. most of the U.S. seemed to be $2-1/2---$5---$10 Indians and an assortment of all denomination Lib's. also, i saw several California Gold pieces which were again mainly raw.
Thank you for the show report.
I will be there tomorrow don't know what time (wife is going to the mall
Hope to meet you and anybody else from the forms.
Did you see any nice 1934-S peace $ ?
Papabear
Connor Numismatics Website
Let me echo what Dan said: Barbers? What sort of grades? Talk to us!
Thx, Dave
I've been finding that a large amount of semi-casual collectors aren't attending shows at this time. They've put filling holes in their albums on hold, and this has been pretty much since the Hurricane's, and the gas price increases. I'm still able to do plenty of business at the shows, but that average coin just doesn't have a customer right now. That seems to be the biggest difference between now and during the summer, to me.
I would think that the St. Louis show would hurt the PAN show. No one I spoke with up here had plans to attend PAN, but plenty were heading to St. Louis.
LSCC#1864
Ebay Stuff
Interesting and informative report. Tomorrow we worry about the orange and white (or brown).
Question; were any of the TPG's at the PAN show?
Thanks.
did anyone attend the show today that they could share a perspective update of??
<< <i>i don't think things are HOTHOTHOT. did anyone attend the show today that they could share a perspective update of?? >>
I guess we gotta wait for legend to come up with a "we're blowing sunshine up your shorts" thread. Then things will be HOT HOT HOT
<< <i>
<< <i>i don't think things are HOTHOTHOT. did anyone attend the show today that they could share a perspective update of?? >>
I guess we gotta wait for legend to come up with a "we're blowing sunshine up your shorts" thread. Then things will be HOT HOT HOT >>
She'll tell us that only the non-widget coins are HOT HOT HOT.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
6024 N. 9th Ave #5
Pensacola, FL 32504
HTTP://WWW.AACoinCo.Com
6024 N. 9th Ave #5
Pensacola, FL 32504
HTTP://WWW.AACoinCo.Com
The rudest people there were at the first table on the left (Sarosi). My wife, who does not collect, even commented on it. All I did was ask what they were buying 90% silver at and then if they had a coin counter. The big foreheaded redhead then copped a nasty attitude and told me to count it myself and to keep the 40% junk in the bag. No soup for them.
I bought a:
1928 Peace Dollar ANACS MS63
1895-O Morgan ANACS F15
1927 Peace Dollar NGC MS63
1807 Half Dollar, Raw VG
Also, one of the nicest people at the show IMO was Gus and Shirley from Acropolic coins, great folks there. They bought the $840.00 of 90% silver that Sarosi turned their noses up at. Coinco also seemed like some nice people.
There were two 1801 halves in XF but I did not see the 1802, that one may have gotten by me but both 1801's were $7300.00 and were slabbed one each by PCGS and NGC.
Agree with DNADave - Gus and Shirley are very nice folks.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
Better coins sold and dogs were just left sitting.
<< <i>Great report, keets. I wish I could have been there. Hopefully kaytsok will chime in with his report from setting up on Sunday.
Agree with DNADave - Gus and Shirley are very nice folks. >>
Well, here is my two cents worth. I set up for a "Sunday only" table. The last time I did this was 4 years ago. It was $25 for the day, and free use of showcases. This year, it was $100 for the day, and $10 to rent each showcase for the day. I took 2 guys with me in case I got busy. I didn't need either of them. I could have done the show alone. I took $50K of inventory. I sold a total of $9500 of stuff that was generally at CDN bid, PCGS slabbed. I could have sold the stuff easily on EBAY for as much, if not more. Needless to say, I was disappointed. Traffic on Sunday was s...l...o...w. (but there was a Steeler game) I enjoyed meeting Keets, goldustin, and Pat and BJ. Sorry, I missed you, Kranky.
My guess is that I won't be doing any more shows. The time, energy and cost wasn't worth it. Maybe I just his a bad show. Comments from other dealers seemed to suggest that they had a reasonably good show. Comments like "average", or "I covered my costs and then some", or "good dealer activity" on Thursday and Friday. I also felt like all of the action was Friday and Saturday. It certainly wasn't on Sunday. Any bigger collectors and/or dealers were not to be found on Sunday. $200K transaction on Friday; I'm not sure what it was or who did it.
Sarosi was my biggest customer. They paid me 5.2 for 90% silver. I have seen several negative posts about the Sarosi's in the past few months. (John and Kathy are the bourse chairpeople) I have had only a positive relationship with them over the years. My only gripe this time was that I arrived at 7:30 a.m to set up, but they wouldn't let me in until 9:00 a.m. sharp. Kathy thought she told me this was the case, but I'm sure she forgot. By the time I hustled to set up, I think I lost a lot of dealer business. ( they do NO communication via e-mail. It's 2005. C'mon.)
On Friday when I stopped by the PAN show, there was "Police Equipment" show adjecent to the coin show. As a deputy in the Allegheny County Sheriff Reserves, I was able to enter. Cool stuff. Binoculars for $4500 with no shaking, canine demonstrations, state of the art police gear, etc. (approx. 75 booths) I had more fun there than at the coin show. (My only purchase there was 2 canisters of pepper spray.)
Overall, slow show. I think my show days are done. Back to ebay.
while i haven't bought much from Acropolis i'll also say i always enjoy talking with Gus. he generally has a nice assortment of coins and seems to be fairly knowledgeable and not a "high pressure" type of seller. his wife is always accomodating and more than willing to show any coin i've been interested in.
Comments like "average", or "I covered my costs and then some", or "good dealer activity" on Thursday and Friday.
i think comments like this should be enough for anyone who doubts that things are slowing down. this was/is a moderately large regional show and if the best the dealers can do is cover cost and hope for brisk dealer/dealer sales it doesn't bode well for the collector. dealer attendance was lower than in the past, for various reasons, and with the situation in Ohio as it is this show should have been able to pick up the slack. other recent Ohio shows have been slow and i doubt it has as much to do with the CoinGate issue as some believe. autumn is generally brisk after the summer lull. hopefully, we won't have to wait for the F.U.N. Show to be sure of where the markets heading.