Once the seller sells the coin, can he/she still use the photo without the permission of the owner o
RYK
Posts: 35,800 ✭✭✭✭✭
For those coin photographers who feel strongly that the image of a coin is their property, it should follow that they can use the photo for whatever purposes they have. Does the owner of the coin, the subject of the photo, have any say?
In portrait photography, a photographer would probably be sued if he/sheu used the photo of a subject in advertisement, on your website, etc. without the permission or release from the subject. Similarly, a few years ago, my real estate agent asked permission to use a photo of our home for her promotional calendar. She could have just snapped a photo of the house and used it.
What is the moral (and legal, if anyone knows) obligation of the owner of the photo to the subject of the photo or the owner of the subject.
In portrait photography, a photographer would probably be sued if he/sheu used the photo of a subject in advertisement, on your website, etc. without the permission or release from the subject. Similarly, a few years ago, my real estate agent asked permission to use a photo of our home for her promotional calendar. She could have just snapped a photo of the house and used it.
What is the moral (and legal, if anyone knows) obligation of the owner of the photo to the subject of the photo or the owner of the subject.
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Comments
<< <i>Does the owner of the coin, the subject of the photo, have any say? >>
No.
<< <i>In portrait photography, a photographer would probably be sued if he/sheu used the photo of a subject in advertisement >>
They might be sued but, in the absence of a stipulation to the contrary, they have the rights to the images and the plaintiff would lose. For example, your wedding photographer owns the rights to your wedding photos unless part of the contract - including commensurate compensation - transferred those rights to you.
Russ, NCNE
its just copy right crap from a bunch a richard heads !
You cant use my photo because i took it !
Proof
On the moral side of things, it's really polite to ask first
<< <i>Go try to make copies of your wedding photos at Wal-Mart and see what they say. That will tell you who owns the images. I tried to copy a 60 year old portait of my mother and since it was professionally done they would not copy it. >>
Really? Wow!
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
San Diego, CA
The owner of the coin has granted me permission to use it as my icon coin. The owner of the photo, Heritage, could not care less.
Sunnywood
Sunnywood's Rainbow-Toned Morgans (Retired)
Sunnywood's Barber Quarters (Retired)
Actually, I would think that was pretty cool.
What if a professional photographer had pictures of your young daughter plastered all over magazine ads and on his/her website?
<< <i>Go try to make copies of your wedding photos at Wal-Mart and see what they say. That will tell you who owns the images. I tried to copy a 60 year old portait of my mother and since it was professionally done they would not copy it. >>
How can they tell the difference between the photo and the proof? I purchased all of my wedding photographs including the proofs.
<< <i>I purchased all of my wedding photographs including the proofs. >>
Did you also buy the negatives? If not, the photographer still owns the rights.
Russ, NCNE
The image (digital or negative) is the work of its creator and is implicitly copyrighted in the U.S. According to precedent, you will find this to be true.
Whether or not the imager of a coin wants to protect his/her work, and whether or not the imager will "share" the work with a coin purchaser is strictly up to the imager and the coin purchaser.
<< <i>Similarly, a few years ago, my real estate agent asked permission to use a photo of our home for her promotional calendar. She could have just snapped a photo of the house and used it. >>
No, that she couldn't do and she could get in trouble if she had done so. She needed your permission to create the image since she didn't own the house. Once she has your permission and creates the image then that image is HER property and she can continue to use it even if you later sell your house to someone else.
<< <i>
<< <i>I purchased all of my wedding photographs including the proofs. >>
Did you also buy the negatives? If not, the photographer still owns the rights.
Russ, NCNE >>
As usual, Russ is dead on here. My wedding photographer had a policy of holding onto negatives for five years after the ceremony, so they could continue to sell extra prints. After five years, they would typically throw the negatives away. My wife contacted them and instead negotiated the purchase of the negatives for a very small fee (I think $20). With the negatives we also got a notarized letter fully releasing the copyright to us.
Similarly, I tried to make a copy of my brother-in-law's high school portrait, even though the picture was more than 20 years old no one would touch it without either a signed release from the original studio, or my signature on a form stating that I had tried to contact the photographer and was unable to obtain it.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
As for my policy on the buyers of my coins using the pictures of those coins after they buy them...
"All the coins I have bought I have always copied the pictures, for use to show off the coin, I always give credit by thanking the dealer for the coin or mentioning the dealer. A few times I have sold the coin after a year or so and used the pictures. I never knew some dealers wanted to be asked, or might have refused if I did ask. I for one will be careful in the future of which coins I buy."
fountainheadgold, no need to ask me
Straight from one of my auctions:
"Unlike many retentive dealers, YOU own the pictures that come with/are used to sell you this coin (although we can't promise you how long we'll host them for so if you want them you'd better copy them ASAP)."
these richard head photographers need to get a life.
<< <i>but I think that there is a big difference philosophically between cases when the picture is the product (ie. wedding pictures) and when the picture is something used to sell the product (ie. photograph of used car). >>
I agree, but the fundamental point is that copyright law makes no distinction, thus the seller is well within their rights to deny use of the image. But, as I've also said, my personal philosophy is that if somebody is giving me money for the coin they can do whatever they want with the image.
A while back I sold a PCGS graded cameo coin suitable for a registry set. As part of that auction I included a bonus raw coin of the same year. Shortly after the buyer paid for it he entered it in his reg set and uploaded the image to the set - the wrong image, the bonus raw coin. He didn't ask, and I didn't care. But, what I did do was contact him and send him a suitably sized composite image of the correct coin.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Gee Russ,what coin was that ? >>
Some Modern Crap™ penny.
Russ, NCNE