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I cancelled my subscription to the Grey Sheet today!
saintguru
Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭
I am utterly amazed that a publiation that ONLY studies coin trends can be so WRONG on so many prices, week after week! Some have been that way for 6 months to a year!
They say that they are representing the wholesale market. Yeah, they get their info from CCE, where there are a half dozen vulture dealers making grave-digger bids and few offers. It's like having a home for sale in Malibu for $5 millon, no buyers, and some "dealer" says "I'll bid $2 million." Well, by Grey Sheet standards, there's your bid!
I asked the guy what percentage of subscribers were collectors vs. dealers and he responded 50-50. I doubt that highly!
Hell, I could do a better job. And if they think that a POP2 coin is accurately priced their way, they are nuts! They do not recognize auction prices either. Funny thing is that many, MANY of the better coins are bought by dealers in auctions. How do they punch their way out of that paper bag?
They say that they are representing the wholesale market. Yeah, they get their info from CCE, where there are a half dozen vulture dealers making grave-digger bids and few offers. It's like having a home for sale in Malibu for $5 millon, no buyers, and some "dealer" says "I'll bid $2 million." Well, by Grey Sheet standards, there's your bid!
I asked the guy what percentage of subscribers were collectors vs. dealers and he responded 50-50. I doubt that highly!
Hell, I could do a better job. And if they think that a POP2 coin is accurately priced their way, they are nuts! They do not recognize auction prices either. Funny thing is that many, MANY of the better coins are bought by dealers in auctions. How do they punch their way out of that paper bag?
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New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
But for the common crap I collect (i.e. coins less than four figures), it's pretty accurate, even after cross referencing auction results and Ebay sales. I don't subscribe though -- I just buy an online copy for $4 every 3 months or so.
Those who say that the Gray Sheet is only accurate for common, frequently traded coins are correct. If you buy and sell the really rare stuff, the auctions are your only guide.
Well if there is only one bid at $2 mill there you go. If ask is $5 mill than the market is $2-$5. Nothing wrong with that. In fact that is what it is. The problem comes when there is a new bid of $2.5... does the sheet pick that up and say the market is now $2.5 to $5 ?
The sheet is established. If someone would come along and try to do better they must have better info. If they have better info than the sheet would get that info. If you think you can just step in and do better than I am all in your favor, but I would suggest you keep your strategy and info sources private.
GTS
<< <i>Yeah smart move SG, now what are you gonna use to line the bird cage?
GTS >>
Check my ebay BIN or Make Offers!!
Send my credentials to the House of Detention. I got some friends inside.
.......................
Sorry for that OT strangeness. It's late. Goodnight.
collections: Maryland related coins & exonumia, 7070 Type set, and Video Arcade Tokens.
The Low Budget Y2K Registry Set
<< <i>I cancelled my subscription to the Resurrection.
Send my credentials to the House of Detention. I got some friends inside.
.......................
Sorry for that OT strangeness. It's late. Goodnight.
It's all good. I'm sitting here waiting for the hurricane because the freeways are impassable and there's nothing else I can do.
So I'm thinking
When the still sea conspires in armor
and her sullen and aborted currents breed tiny monsters
True sailing is dead.
or maybe
You can NOT petition the Lord with prayer!
But to keep the topic relevant, I am now the proud owner of a Chain Cent, thanks to Signature. Woo hoo!
<< <i>Yeah smart move SG, now what are you gonna use to line the bird cage?
GTS >>
So, SaintGuru IS Cherwood????
I KNEW IT!
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>
<< <i>Yeah smart move SG, now what are you gonna use to line the bird cage?
GTS >>
So, SaintGuru IS Cherwood????
I KNEW IT! >>
hey there Saint, you've made a smooth move. Someone like you doesn't need no stinkin grey sheet. Seriously!
KJ
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Just for the sake of discussion, let's say a Hawaiian Commem in MS 64 goes up $50 bid/ask for the plus sign. The weekly written update mentions this "uptick" on page 1, and spins it as Commems moving higher. Yet there are 7 listed grades and 144 listed classic silver commems totaling 1008 bid and ask prices for the series published weekly by the GS. So in my example 1/1008 = 0.0099. THATS A TREND OF MOVING HIGHER. Hmmmmmmmmm. But that's what the written piece would often spin at you. And then is that a posted price from a dealer trying to pick one up for a client but not yet a real sale between dealers?
Auction histories add more in many instances IMHO just because its a recorded real sale. The GS seems to be a bit fuzzy sometimes to me as I wonder, was there a real completed sale for that + or - this week?
Its a source of some information, but far from the definitive guide. At this time I get it and follow it just for the record.
What is the opinion of some of the larger dealers that periodically post here. I would love to hear your thoughts on this as well if you don't mind sharing.
Goodnight all.
Website-Americana Rare Coin Inc
Oh, Bochiman,
WS
Many use a percentage of Trends to develope a market pricing stategy.
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
<< <i>Greysheet is a lousy guide for high-end Saints. >>
I think they're a lousy guide for high-end anything! Many upper grades for series that are commonly collected (in such grades) aren't even represented.
Why?
Not so much because of the prices listed - because as the standard it is useful..
Mostly because I find it difficult to read. I wish they would follow series order (half cents, cents, two cents, etc.)
As is so often stated above - no price guide is perfect. Each one has its pluses and minuses. It is a standard, therefore it is useful.
Seriously, it is only a guide and not gospel. It never has been accurate for rare, PQ or high grade coins.
How have collectors priced rare varieties through the years without any guide?
<< <i> A coin is worth the price a willing buyer and seller agree it is worth. PERIOD. No person can accurately tell you the price of any coin. >>
And they don't go past MS65 in GOLD?? What a joke.
As for the Graysheet, it has its purposes. Perhaps it isn't suited for your purposes, but it helps quite a few collectors understand where they stand. I suppose if you are a seller you'd rather see a "collector" (read "sucker") come into your shop with a Red Book as a basis for their purchases. At least when a buyer looks at the Graysheet he gets some idea what a price may be other than full retail.
Regards
gary
They appear to be in the process of doing this with their recent purchase of the FACTS Netwrok/Certified Coin Exchange (CCE) dealer-to-dealer coin pricing service.
I like the new color coded pricing update bullets.
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
this is to my advantage. While i feel it is off in both directions, it makes for a starting price to go from.
Chris
Makes it $5 a month and almost ANYTHING is worth 5 bucks a month.