ICG PR70 Crossover to PCGS???
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Ljr1964
Posts: 132
Hi. Need advice. Saw a nice proof coin on Ebay rated ICG PR70. If I were to buy it and send it to PCGS, any thoughts of how it would grade?
Thank you.
Thank you.
LJR
0
Comments
2- PCGS won't cross any 70 because they can't see the rims
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
<< <i>Chance for a successful crossover is less than 5%,......... >>
...........unless it was graded by Cammie.
<< <i>Chance for a successful crossover is less than 5%, probably much less. >>
Actually, it's 0%. See Jeremy's point #2.
Russ, NCNE
STUNNING 2001 ICG PROOF-70 DCAM BUFFALO DOLLAR selling at $144.95. Good value? Or not?
<< <i>STUNNING 2001 ICG PROOF-70 DCAM BUFFALO DOLLAR selling at $144.95. Good value? Or not? >>
Not.
Russ, NCNE
LJR
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i>no way, you might not even get a 68 >>
There's no way you can make that qualitative comment without seeing the coin. What you have is called TPG bias.
The fact is this, as explained by one of the top-tier graders to me. No top-tier grading service in their right mind would cross a 70 simply because there are too many visual limiting factors of the other party's slab. Even if it looked like a 70 in the slab; if they cracked it out and discovered something that would just take it out of 70 contention by their standards they now have a financial obligation to the submitter to give them back a 70 (their case or cash or another coin in a slab that is a 70).
<< <i><< no way, you might not even get a 68 >>
There's no way you can make that qualitative comment without seeing the coin. >>
Pretty safe bet with ICG. I should have learned my lesson by now, but I screwed up and bought yet another one of their coins hoping maybe they'd finally got their act together. It arrived today. It's a PR69CAM 1964 Kennedy that looks pretty good until you notice the massive hairlining in the obverse fields. It wouldn't do better than PR65 at PCGS or NGC.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
<< <i><< no way, you might not even get a 68 >>
There's no way you can make that qualitative comment without seeing the coin. >>
Pretty safe bet with ICG. I should have learned my lesson by now, but I screwed up and bought yet another one of their coins hoping maybe they'd finally got their act together. It arrived today. It's a PR69CAM 1964 Kennedy that looks pretty good until you notice the massive hairlining in the obverse fields. It wouldn't do better than PR65 at PCGS or NGC.
Russ, NCNE >>
Then send it in under the grade guarantee. They should make good on their grades. If you simply crack it out, then you have no right to complain.
<< <i>Then send it in under the grade guarantee. They should make good on their grades. >>
Good one.
Russ, NCNE
Are you afraid to see that perhaps ICG will come through on their grading guarantee and you'll no longer be able to whine about their slabs? Go for it. Document the coin, take great pictures, send it in.
What's the big deal $25?
If it's so darn obvious, then it will be to them that they made a mistake.
<< <i>Are you afraid to see that perhaps ICG will come through on their grading guarantee >>
HMM...maybe I didn't make this clear. The coin is graded to their normal sloppy standards. I've seen hundreds like this. In other words, as far as they are concerned it is accurately graded, so it's senseless to try any kind of guarantee submission.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
<< <i>Are you afraid to see that perhaps ICG will come through on their grading guarantee >>
HMM...maybe I didn't make this clear. The coin is graded to their normal sloppy standards. I've seen hundreds like this. In other words, as far as they are concerned it is accurately graded, so it's senseless to try any kind of guarantee submission.
Russ, NCNE >>
If you prove you're right, then you'll have something to truly beat your chest about for months to come on these boards.
If I'm right, you might have a bit of faith restored with the company.
Maybe, I didn't make this clear....ICG has a grading guarantee...make your case...if it's such a slam dunk, they'll make good on it. It sounds like this hairline is fairly obvious. Anyone knows that a single obvious hairline will kill a 69 grade, including ICG.
Try it!!!
<< <i>Maybe, I didn't make this clear....ICG has a grading guarantee...make your case...if it's such a slam dunk, they'll make good on it. >>
I guess you're still not getting it. By their standards, the coin is accurately graded, so a guarantee submission is a waste of time.
<< <i>It sounds like this hairline is fairly obvious. Anyone knows that a single obvious hairline will kill a 69 grade, including ICG. >>
It's a lot more than a single hairline and, no, ICG does not know hairlines kill the 69 grade. If they did, I wouldn't have encountered so many in PR69 holders that are hairlined.
It's strange that anybody who's viewed a large enough sampling of ICG graded moderns knows full well that they overgrade them, yet you insist otherwise. That tells me that either a) You have no experience with the coins, or b) You have some kind of agenda.
Russ, NCNE
Believe it or not, in this case, it doesn't matter which TPG we're talking about. The TPG in question has a grading guarantee and you've never put them to task for it. All TPG's have been known to go through periods of time where there looser, tighter, poor quality control, whatever.
So, you can honestly say, you've never seen what you would call a 69 come out of ICG?
If you want to put the TPG to task...then do it...don't just sit there and whine. Besides, you probably didn't pay 69 money for the coin so if you get a 69 out of the coin you'll come out way ahead.
I bet your afraid that you'll be proved wrong and you'll lose your bully pulpit on your personal favorite TPG and you'll lose your right to whine.
List all the reasons why it shouldn't be graded as such
Prethen ... You can the send it to ICG for the bounty
You can keep us updated
I don't think Russ purchased the ICG coin just so he could bash ICG. I think he was in hopes they were getting their act together as it was at one time. My best crossover came from an ICG slab to PCGS to at that time made my coin a PCGS pop 1 with none higher. What Russ is saying is something like that won't happen today with their grading standards as they are now.
In my humble opinion
As an objective observer, I would be curious to see what ICG would say if the coin were returned via "grade guarantee".
Somebody should contact Cameron.
If they don't approve the coin under the grading guarantee, will you stop posting here forever? I think this would be good incentive for Russ to send it in. What say you?
Self Indulgence | Holey Coins | Flickr Photostream
<< <i>Prethen,
If they don't approve the coin under the grading guarantee, will you stop posting here forever? I think this would be good incentive for Russ to send it in. What say you? >>
If you don't wish to read my posts, you can ignore them.
And Russ, after all your badmouthing of ICG for so long a time, you want us to believe you bought an ICG coin sight unseen on Aug. 8th.? We are not that gullible, but maybe you've seen the light. Post the picture of the coin in the slab for all of us to see. Then send it to ICG for the guarantee.