PCGS vs NGC Penny Ratings

968FireHawk · July 24, 2005 12:45PM

Are PCGS and NGS equal in rating wheat pennies? I seem to see a big difference in PCGS vs. NGC auction results.

Is there a gap between MS67 in PCGS vs. NGC? If so, why?

Thanks,

coinbuf · July 24, 2005 12:51PM

The general feeling is that most NGC MS67 coins will grade one point lower at PCGS thus the difference in cost.

Chris

100proof1957 · July 24, 2005 1:29PM

YUP

968FireHawk · July 24, 2005 1:39PM

Why is that? Thanks for humoring this newbie

LincolnsRule · July 24, 2005 1:43PM

pcgs specifically draws the line between ms66 and ms67 so an ms67 is a pain in the neck to try to get, and usually (but not always!) a really nice coin worthy of a high price. Ngc is enough more lenient that an ngc ms67 may not be a terribly nice or rare coin and therefore is not worth as much. The differences can be huge! I've seen something like an ngc ms67 60-d Lincoln sell for about $100 while a pcgs ms67 would be a $4000+ coin easy.

coppercoins · July 24, 2005 1:45PM

LincolnsRule's answer is right on the money...a good post.

LincolnCentMan · July 24, 2005 2:03PM

With brown coins, NGC and PCGS are pretty equal. PCGS typicly draws the line at 65BN as the "top" grade given out while NGC will go to 66BN for "specail" coins. On RB's, they're pretty equal. Where the wheat is separated from the chaff is in RD grades from 65 and up. The PCGS 67RD's are usually far superior to NGC's and the market reflects it.

To me, the best bang for the buck (1934-1958) is PCGS 66RD's. If you go for 67RD's, try to find the ones with the bar-code on the front of the label. I dont think you'll find many top lincoln collectors/dealers that would disagree with me if I said the standards have gotten a lot tighter.

MAN I love buying the 66RD's that are coming out of PCGS now.......

David

bennybravo · July 24, 2005 2:10PM

Hi firehawk, and welcome to the boards. There is definitely a different grading standard among the 2 major services for this series and many others. As an example, ( I just grabbed the population reports for this date at random.) Take a 1948-P Lincoln cent in the grade of 67RD. NGC has graded 399 examples in Mint State red. Of those, they have awarded 51 coins the MS67RD grade. PCGS has certified 398 examples in mint state red. They have only awarded the grade of MS67RD to 5 coins. That wouldn't necessarily mean that all NGC67RD's are inferior to PCGS examples, but it's very likely that most of those examples wouldn't meet PCGS's standards for that grade level. As someone who has only dabbled a bit in this series, most of the NGC67RD's that I've seen, do tend to look like what PCGS would consider a 66RD. I'm sure some of our Lincoln experts will chime in a bit more. Has anyone here had any success crossing these? I know one of our boardmembers has had some GREAT success at cherrypicking crossovers in the Washington quarter series, but I'm sure he probably goes through a ton of "No Way" coins to find those few that have a decent shot.

968FireHawk · July 25, 2005 12:01AM

Hey, thanks for the updates guys.

I made a purchase of a number of NGC MS66 & 67's this weekend, thinking I was getting a deal relative to pcgs.com prices and Heritage auction records. I have not heard of such a spread between the two services before.

I feel a bit "stuck" with them now..... certainly did not get the "deals" I hoped!

I have been into this hobby for less than a year, and am not focused on any one area of collecting yet (gold, pennies, Morgans, etc). Leaning towards gold, but have a limited budget.

With the 2009 Lincoln anniversary coming up, I was starting to acquire Lincolns with a "hold horizon" through 2009.

What do you guys think?

Goldude · July 25, 2005 12:34AM

firehawk i can't speak for the pennies, but on most of the gold coins it is pretty equal, the greysheet pretty much tells all, i own 2 1878 $3 princesses in ms64, just purchased them recently, one a NGC aand the other PCGS both astonishing coins and paid 8k for each, but i basically bought the coins not the holders (well ok i bought the holders to) lol Goodluck (-:

ellewood · July 25, 2005 12:40AM

MAN I love buying the 66RD's that are coming out of PCGS now.......

My thoughts exactly!!!!

WaterSport · July 25, 2005 12:53AM

I feel several Lincoln Collectors feel a bit of a curiosity towards the approaching 2009 date. The cent will be modified or perished. We have already seen what new quarters and nickels have done to the hobby. My goal is to get this cent collecting over before 2009. Hard telling what a 1931 s will cost then, IMHO.

WS

968FireHawk · July 25, 2005 9:33AM

I have a bit of bad karmah on these NGC pennies, so I was thinking about selling them. (they remind me of my rookie mistake, not knowing about the PCGS coins being more valued)

My intent was not to turn them over, and hold on to them for 3-4 years.

Do you guys think the NGC/PCGS gap will be a thing of the past by then?

IE: Should I sell these things and learn my lesson, or should I stick them in my deposit box and hope the line between NGC and PCGS coins is blurred by 2009......

mgoodm3 · July 25, 2005 9:40AM

Welcome. Remember, buy the coin not the slab. There are nice coins in NGC slabs.

coinbuf · July 25, 2005 9:50AM

I think your haveing a bit of buyers remorse, if you like the coins keep them if not sell them. You might want to really wait to buy any more coins untill you've decided which kind/series of coins you want to collect. And then do lots of reading and research before you buy again. Once you've made a decision you'll be happier with the coins you buy.

Chris

LincolnsRule · July 25, 2005 10:18AM

I'd keep your favorite couple of them and sell your least favorites. In selling some you'll be able to learn about the market for them and if you paid too much or paid a fair amount for them, and then as you see more coins and learn to grade for yourself, you may realize your favorite ones may (or perhaps maybe not) be nice enough to cross to pcgs or even sell for a profit. How did you plan on selling them? Ebay or buy/sell/trade here will work well, but dealers probably won't buy them at as high a prices as they'd rather submit such coins than buy them. Good luck! Oh another note on 2009, Lincolns have already gone up in value a lot the last few years. Not that there isn't even more room for increase, but I have to remember the lesson I learned from when I collected baseball cards. I bought a Rickey Henderson rookie at its highes price in 1990, a year before he broke the all time stolen base record. I was thinking he'd break the record and it'd go up even more, but of course it had already gone up on the anticipation of him getting close to the record, and all it did afterwards was go straight down in value!

968FireHawk · July 25, 2005 10:36AM

All excellent advice guys. I bought these particular coins from Teletrade and David Lawrence, so I dont have them in hand yet. Paid for, but not here yet. So I dont know for sure which ones I REALLY like, but they seem pretty good in the images.

Brings up another point, even though I live in Chicago (big city) there really is only one good dealer, and the shows are tough to go to... do most collectors buy via the web now? IE sight unseen in person, just via images?

morgannut2 · July 25, 2005 10:44AM

Yes there really is a difference in the way NGC and PCGS grade--prices reflect it. There are some big differences in Washington Silver Quarters too. Peace Dollars are often a point too high also. Morgans and most gold is generally fairly close. I'll not comment on series I haven't studied--but basically watch for a big spread at places like in the Heritage Price History archives in grades MS-66 and MS-67 to see the important price differences/ grading disconnects overall.

coinbuf · July 25, 2005 11:21AM

<<Brings up another point, even though I live in Chicago (big city) there really is only one good dealer, and the shows are tough to go to... do most collectors buy via the web now? IE sight unseen in person, just via images?>>

Check out RYK's current thread on this subject. Often times the answer is yes, I live in a large city (5th or 6th largest) and the closest big show is an 8 hr drive.

Chris

PCGS vs NGC Penny Ratings

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