Proof like $20 Liberty ?
max911
Posts: 72
I have an unusual 1896 $20 Liberty that grades at best as MS62 but my eye is always drawn to it because such a strong mirror on it especially on the reverse. It is so much different than the finish on my other Liberty's. Where does this come from. I know there is no way it could be a REAL Proof that had a tough life ...... or could it ?
0
Comments
To check if your coin is a proof, look for a very sharp strike and very square edges, as well as very sharp letters. Since you have other double eagles to compare the coin to, the square edges of a proof should be immediately apparent.
Although it is true that 19th century proof gold coins were minted in very small numbers, they were mostly sold to collectors rather than given to VIPs.
Check out the Southern Gold Society
Proofs were sold to collectors by the mint, not just distributed to VIP's.
If yours is a Proof, even if slightly impaired, it should display deeply mirrored surfaces on both sides.
Odds are (great) that you have a business strike and not a Proof.
I am still kicking myself for passing on one such coin, offered at a very ordinary MS62 price, at the NH Coin & Stamp Expo last year. Man, was that thing ever beautiful. The guy selling it had basically nothing but truly lovely coins in his case, mostly in relatively affordable grades. He had some eye, obviously; I wish now that I had taken his card.
If I get excited enough, I will send it off to get a second opinion. In the meantime, I will search for a good picture of a real proof.
This is what make coin collecting exciting.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3927224783&category=524
In addition to “business strikes,” which were coins intended for use as currency, $20 Liberty Double Eagles were also struck as presentation pieces in Proof condition, intended to be given to foreign dignitaries and government officials, or to be sold to collectors. Proof coins are by definition struck at least twice, with specially prepared and polished dies on specially prepared and polished blanks. Proof coins feature razor sharp strikes, often with especially frosty devices (Miss Liberty’s image, for example) and highly polished, mirrored fields. Proof gold coins usually have very small mintage figures, normally from 25 to 125 pieces for a given year. Proof $20 Liberty gold coins were minted from 1859 to 1907. Most Proof $20 Liberty mintage figures average around 50 coins per year. Typically all Proof issues are struck only at the Philadelphia mint, although several Branch Mint Proof gold issues are known to exist.
They are out there, just not as common as say PL Morgans.
<< <i>By the way - look at this auction. Ready to get your checkbook out !
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3927224783&category=524 >>
link
<< <i>NGC has only designated 3 of 6,268 graded 1896 $20 as PL so odds are pretty slim that yours would be designated as such. Only way to tell is to submit it to NGC >>
NGC hasn't been using the PL designation for gold/type coins for very long, so PL statistics/populations are skewed heavily to the low side.
Also, there is no need to spend the $ to have the coin graded if you can show it to a knowledgeable collector or dealer and get a free, informed opinion.
Max911, if your coin is P-L on only one side, it won't get a P-L designation from NGC. The services can be capricious giving out that designation at any rate. Therefore I think that you would be wasting your money if you sent the coin to NGC. It would be better to get an opinion from an advanced collector or knowledgeable dealer.
At least he's selling it with decent feedback - 550, 100% positive. I've seen very expensive listings with much worse fedback scores.
Check out my Yahoo! auctions: http://auctions.yahoo.com/user/alangilfoy
My Where's George profile: http://www.wheresgeorge.com/user_profile_popup.php?ukey=7b48b1f17b4ea8104dabd4ac0fa70a47
I bet there are more out that and not recognized as such !!
<< <i>I am sure it is an early strike coin with a polished die. I can count my nose pores from 4" on the obverse similar to a deep mirror designation on a Morgan. The reserve is a true proof like. Now if I get a TPG to designate it as a DM, I might have something.
I bet there are more out that and not recognized as such !! >>
If you check some of the NGC PL gold this past year sold in Heritage auctions you will note that many of the slab ID numbers have only 9 digits while more recent submission numbers have 10 digits. Obviously someone sent the NGC older slabbed coin in for PL designation and got it. As Coinguy 1 said, NGC has not been using the PL designation for gold much more than a year but NGC has been grading gold many years so the census numbers are deceptive.
A $20 gold piece in NGC PL normally brings a pretty hefty premium, especially if it is currently the only PL for the date. The most common PL by far is the 1904 and even it is bringing an extra 75%. $20 DPLs can bring premiums of 575%.
Honestly, I don't think the coin will grade better than a DM but noboy is grading $20 Liberty's with that designation. I guess I could ask at the time of submission.
Of course I could sell it raw on ebay as DMPL (DM-front, PL-back), list it as ultra rare, block everyone on this board and do a private listing with a DIN at $10,000.
Just kidding !