Winged Liberty, freshly graded... Is PCGs tough?

LucyBop · June 23, 2005 10:38AM

Not to easy to grade from these images, I had a hard time with them because the luster on this coin is superb and the strike is outstanding!...

your guess's to the grade?

MICHAELDIXON · June 23, 2005 10:39AM

67FSB

dizzyfoxx · June 23, 2005 10:40AM

At the very least a 66

Possibly a 67

Russ · June 23, 2005 10:41AM

MS64FB.

Russ, NCNE

VAMs4U2BuyHere · June 23, 2005 10:42AM

67 FSB

coinkat · June 23, 2005 10:45AM

agreed

lordmarcovan · June 23, 2005 10:47AM

Beauty.

I expect it's in a 66 holder, since "Is PCGS tough" is in the title of this thread?

dlimb2 · June 23, 2005 10:50AM

I would say pcgs called it a 66 fb...looks like at least a 67fb to me..

JrGMan2004 · June 23, 2005 10:50AM

The light is a little harsh, especially on the obv, and that could be magnifying some hits and at the same time could be hiding some... looks at least 66FB, but looks more like 67FB to me, unless that mark in the center of the bands is a hit across the line... then that'd be a no FB...

LucyBop · June 23, 2005 10:55AM

When I sent it in, I had it as a lock six and possible seven. PCGs graded it ms64fb....

When the coin came back, i noticed a distraction above the 'In', In the 'In God We Trust'....

Though it appears to be some raised metal of some sort....

This is what probably kept it from GEM status....

lordmarcovan · June 23, 2005 10:58AM

Ow.

LucyBop · June 23, 2005 11:00AM

<<

Ow. >>

The coin has the look and strike of Ultra GEM till you get to the area I mentioned.

A lesson for me, as I missed this and the pro graders didn't....

coinkat · June 23, 2005 11:06AM

it is an attractive coin... regardless of the plastic grade

LucyBop · June 23, 2005 11:08AM

<< it is an attractive coin... regardless of the plasctic grade >>

it looks like it was minted yesterday...

Danegeld · June 23, 2005 11:08AM

Mmmmm... MS66FB

ChuckC · June 23, 2005 11:59AM

tsk tsk

Coinhusker1 · June 23, 2005 12:35PM

Lucy, was that ding there before you sent it in?

lloydmincy · June 23, 2005 12:37PM

66FB for sure Lucy. That metal "mark" is so tiny - should not even be considered to knock it down below gem. IMO

If that's not a gem, all my gems are 60's!!!

LucyBop · June 23, 2005 12:37PM

Its not really a ding, it seems that the metal is raised, some type of planchet flaw....

it must have been there and i missed it... i dunno...

Elcontador · June 23, 2005 12:47PM

Lucy, if it's raised metal, it was minted this way and the coin's grade should not suffer because of it. I've seen some Barber Halves in PC 5 holders that had eyecatching planchet flaws. The issue here isn't eyecatching, and I think your coin is seriously undergraded.

I might add that I have a PC 6 Liberty Nickel with as much eye appeal as you're going to find on any coin of this denomination. However, it has some faint die striation marks. These were created in the minting process and did not detract from the coin's grade.

100proof1957 · June 23, 2005 1:04PM

Paging Mr. Dover !

is Ben Dover in the building ?

CarlWohlforth · June 23, 2005 1:08PM

If that "ding" is raised metal I'll be happy to pay MS 65 FB money for that gem..

That Merc has great eye appeal!

Coinhusker1 · June 23, 2005 1:10PM

<< 
That Merc has great eye appeal! >>

And, not only FB, but HAMMERED FB.

Fairlaneman · June 23, 2005 1:34PM

Hi Lucy

I hate to ask this but 64 usually means the coin has some slide marks on her cheek or neck did you miss seeing a few of them ? The slide marks, as you know, would knock it down for sure. The raised metal should have no bearing IMO. The graders should consider the metal "As Struck" from the mint.

Thats a killer to get 64 on a 44D...ouch !! Heck its pretty anyway.

Opps....43D...

Ken

LucyBop · June 23, 2005 1:40PM

no slide marks on this little Jewel....

that metal thing is about the only thing wrong/flaw with this coin..

Fairlaneman · June 23, 2005 1:43PM

Well, IMO a kick to the Frankies should be sent to the graders.

Ken

dlimb2 · June 23, 2005 1:43PM

I think the graders have all gone nuts...so what does that do for business...want to send somemore?

ChangeInHistory · June 23, 2005 2:52PM

<< I would say pcgs called it a 66 fb...looks like at least a 67fb to me.. >>

relayer · June 23, 2005 2:55PM

67FB

coinbuf · June 23, 2005 3:01PM

That is one stunning Merc Lucy, Russ has'nt said it so "you got stiffed" sorry don't know how to do the tm thinggy.

Chris

FRNAllStar · June 23, 2005 3:16PM

I think I notice something. On the rear of coin in the center. On the collum, bottom half, on the right side of it. it looks like a knick or scratch.

Strat · June 23, 2005 4:07PM

So you made a Frankie in 67fbl and a 43D merc in 64fb? I'll take that any day of the week! Just be glad it wasn't the other way around.

LucyBop · June 23, 2005 5:36PM

<< So you made a Frankie in 67fbl and a 43D merc in 64fb? I'll take that any day of the week! Just be glad it wasn't the other way around. >>

what exactly are you trying to imply?

the Frankie deserved what it got, this Winged liberty maybe did as well because of this raised metal in the obverse field.
I never anywhere in this thread said that PCGs graded this coin wrong, however I am trying to understand what makes this a ms64 coin. One that i never would have submitted had i understood what was going to hurt the grade.

and let me clue you in on something, because one makes a good grade on one coin does in no way make it correct for any other coins to either get under graded or over graded.

I really don't know what the intent of your post is, but let me make mine absolutely clear, I enjoy submitting and hitting high grades, and when I miss the boat such as on this lovely little jewel, I seek to understand why. so I can continue to submit coins of high quality.

stman · June 23, 2005 5:51PM

Lucy, I don't want to get involved with the last two posts except to say I know Strat and I can feel
quite comfortable in saying I don't feel he meant any ill will. I've met him in person on numerous occasions and honestly
he is a true gentleman...... for a slimy dealer that is.

LucyBop · June 23, 2005 5:56PM

likewise, he has always been good to me, but if he is trying to say something else here, let him speak it.

I take his post as implying why am I whining or complaining, or I'm not grateful or something like that....

I seek to learn and understand so I don't repeat sending in a 1940's Winged Liberty that hits a ms64fb. Unless its a 45p.

KurtHorn · June 23, 2005 7:08PM

MS 65 FSB

Edited to add: after reading down the thread... I think 4 is a little harsh. But, all the grading companies are tough on little coins. I have an 1877CC Seated Dime that is flawless. I sent it in and it came back 64. I sent it for presidential review and spoke with David personally about it - while it was in his hand. Stayed 64. I considered it a lesson learned. But sure is a lesson that sucks.

MAD4MORGANS · June 23, 2005 7:36PM

"You got stiffed" is an understatment in my opinion. I think it's undergraded as well.

perhaps it's the plastic that it's now in that's flawed.

matteproof · June 23, 2005 8:02PM

Lucy, that is one very beautiful Merc dime. I think pcgs was very strict with the 64 grade. If the raised metal is “as struck” it should not affect the grade. The only comment I have, which could have potentially caused a lower grade, are what appears to be a few scattered tiny "spots" on Liberty’s cheek, jaw and neck. This could potentially bring a grade down a bit, but 64 does not seem correct at all even if these were present on this coin. Based on the image, I would say the coin deserves a 65fb potential 66fb. The coin is a no questions FB. Nice coin either way.

matteproof

MAD4MORGANS · June 23, 2005 8:14PM

<< But, all the grading companies are tough on little coins >>

Sounds like COIN descimination to me!! Maybe it got a lower grade because it wasn't "TONED"!! or does size REALLY matter??!!

Merc · June 24, 2005 12:26AM

Nice looking coin. I would have guessed MS66 FB based on the picture. I'm not sure what you should do with it. It looks way too nice to be stuck in a 64 holder.

NumisOxide · June 24, 2005 3:37AM

That does have a real nice sharp strike.

Winged Liberty, freshly graded... Is PCGs tough?

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