How much, if at all, are you discouraged from bidding on EBay items which have minimum opening bids

coinguy1 · June 10, 2005 11:24PM

I admit it - when I view Ebay listings that have minimum opening bids and/or reserves, my first thought is that odds are quite high I wont be able to buy at a reasonable price.

I pay far less attention to such offerings.

What are your thoughts/perceptions of such listings (which, by the way, comprise a fairly significant percentage of the total listing population at a given time)?

Thanks for your comments.

TorinoCobra71 · June 10, 2005 11:38PM

I usually NEVER bid on an auction that has a RESERVE, Now the minimum opening depends on what the amount the minimum is!

TorinoCobra71

WWW · June 10, 2005 11:45PM

I have no problem at all with that. BIN's and minimum opening bids are all part of the game.
With hidden reserves, I'll bid what I want to pay for it and hope for the best. I know a lot of
people love to go after rips with last second snipes, but it really chases off the sellers offering
the really nice coins.

BASEagle · June 10, 2005 11:45PM

Um,

not to be nit-picky,

but,

they ALL have minimum opening bids.

Some of the minimums are $0.01, but they all have minimums.

Regarding the reserves, if it's a coin I've been looking for, I'll ask the seller what the reserve amount is. My experience is that about 50% will tell their reserve.

Mike

coinguy1 · June 10, 2005 11:49PM

<< Um,

not to be nit-picky,

but,

they ALL have minimum opening bids.

Some of the minimums are $0.01, but they all have minimums >>

Sounds " nit-picky" to me, Mike.

Edited to add: But, in order to avoid possible confusion - many sellers set high minimum opening bids instead of using "reserves". That way, they can claim that they are selling at "no reserve" (though, that’s not really true) and also avoid paying reserve fees to Ebay.

DJC · June 10, 2005 11:56PM

Not at all. I bid only once on almost every lot I (seriously) bid on, and I make it the absolute highest bid I will pay, and that's that. If it doesn't meet their reserve, I guess it's not the coin for me. If their opening bid is higher than I'm willing to bid, it's not the coin for me. Same reason snipers don't bother me. They'll only win if they're willing to pay more than me (and they are about half the time).

XpipedreamR · June 10, 2005 11:59PM

It's kind of a bummer to see, but it all comes down to the price I'm willing to pay at t-minus 2 seconds or so.

clw54 · June 11, 2005 12:08AM

If the minimum is higher than what I could sell it for on eBay myself if I immediately reslisted it, I skip it. At that point it's not an auction in the way I understand auctions to be. It's become retail in an auction venue.

I seldom bid on reserve auctions for the same reason.

roadrunner · June 11, 2005 12:16AM

I tend to shy away from such auctions as they are usually owned by the larger retailers on ebay and I don't want to waste my time. Let's face it, I don't go on ebay to pay full retail or anything close to it. And the majority of such coins are just "stuff" or "product," with much of it recycled from one retailer to the next.

All my searches are now done with a requirement of 1 bid already placed. This eliminates the majority of the riff-raff, the heavily reserved sales (that get 0 bids), and ridiculously high starting bids. But if 1 person was willing to stick their neck out on an auction, then I'll take a look too if it meets my other search criteria. Basically I let others do the work searching. Sure, a few will fall into the cracks but 95% of the junk will be filtered out.

And thanks for letting me place my 5000th post on this thread.

roadrunner

jdimmick · June 11, 2005 12:17AM

It sucks from a sellers standpoint that a lot of folks will not bid if thier is a starting bid near the value of the coin, but sometimes as the seller you just about have too for fear of losing. I have had two coins recently, both Key-dates, that were nice problem free for the grade and PCGS graded that I started low and took a bath on when the auction ended. wont do it again.

Now , I will start the opening bid a little lower than what I am asking to intise some early bidding, but not lower than cost minus fees'.

jim

roadrunner · June 11, 2005 12:24AM

jdimmick, though I have never sold on ebay I like your approach.
I could never put anything up with no reserve (or 1 cent). Starting 10% under wholesale might be a reasonable choice. I've seen too many apparently nice coins go on ebay for a song.

In one case I did win a coin where I was the only bidder at the "low" starting bid. It was an expensive coin and ultimately no one else bid on it. I paid $6750 for it. I was willing to pay closer to $7600 for it but no one else challenged for it. I recall Mark was in Long Beach and did mention he saw it, but forgot about it. Had there been a BIN I would have hit that too. After getting the PCGS slabbed coin it was every bit as nice as described. In reality it was worth well over my high estimate. The seller got the min he wanted for the coin, but that was only because it was on consignment. He could have gotten much more for it at a show but just didn't really want to bother. There are exceptions to all the rules.

roadrunner

291fifth · June 11, 2005 12:29AM

RESERVES are death. I ignore them completely. HIGH STARTING PRICES are also death. STUPIDLY HIGH SHIPPING CHARGES (or forcing the purchase of insurance an very cheap items) are another way to drive me away quickly!

K6AZ · June 11, 2005 12:49AM

I don't pay any attention to reserves or high minimums. I look at the coin and decide what I'm willing to pay. If that price is higher than the minimum, I'll bid. Over the years I've got some great deals where the sellers had reasonable reserves. For example this auction:

Auction

BAJJERFAN · June 11, 2005 1:04AM

It depends on whether or not you are buying to resell at a profit or for part of a collection or how long you might hold it. It also depends on what the coin is.
Unless I got something that I'm pretty sure will sell well I aint too keen on takin a bath sellin stuff on eBay. I would pretty much use eBay as a last resort.

Russ · June 11, 2005 1:54AM

If it's something I want, it doesn't matter. If it's a reserve auction and the reserve isn't stated I eMail and ask what it is. I prefer low start, no reserve, (that's what I do myself), but I understand that some sellers feel the need to protect themselves against the vagaries of an auction venue.

Russ, NCNE

Lakesammman · June 11, 2005 1:58AM

Not a problem for me - It let's me know up front if the seller is reasonable or not. I'd rather know up front than later.

MikeInFL · June 11, 2005 2:11AM

It depends on the reserve or the starting bid, and the coin. I've found that reserves are more often than not reasonable, but starting bids tend to be high...Mike

BowTieCoins2 · June 11, 2005 2:57AM

I don't mind a minuim bid so much as a reserve, for me to bid on a reserve item I'd have to want it pretty baddly to wait and see what the reserve price is.

p8nt · June 11, 2005 3:09AM

How about in this case: You are selling some coins for someone else and that person has decided that reserve prices. The reserves are very minimal for the coins actual cost, but at the same time, the owner of the coins doesnt want to be had. If you knew that information, would you be more inclined to bid?

clw54 · June 11, 2005 3:17AM

<< How about in this case: You are selling some coins for someone else and that person has decided that reserve prices. The reserves are very minimal for the coins actual cost, but at the same time, the owner of the coins doesnt want to be had. If you knew that information, would you be more inclined to bid? >>

Wouldn't make a difference.

Shamika · June 11, 2005 3:20AM

It shouldn't matter, but for some reason I find myself avoiding such eBay items.

razorface1027 · June 11, 2005 3:52AM

I wont be able to buy at a reasonable price.

Welp, in the first place...I'd be ludicrous to think that I'd be able to get anything from eBay at a reasonable price.

Secondly, there was only one instance that I ever got a coin at a reasonable price. It was a 81-CC GSA MD with a BIN of $300. Turns out it was a MS-64 PL. Nice hit!

Now to actually answer your question.

Discouragement, for me, is when I seek a particular specimen and it has some outlandish starting bid (never really bother with reserves) and I bid on it (sometimes winning it) and it comes time to re-sell and I don't get what I paid for it. That's discouragement. Other than that, if I what it bad enough I'll spend stupid money for it.

Tom

RegistryCoin · June 11, 2005 3:58AM

So that a buyer can see, up-front, if there is a min. or reserve, eBay should just have a little symbol in the auction title indicating that the seller's a$$ is covered, maybe a little smiley with a towel...

PhillyJoe · June 11, 2005 4:02AM

As a buyer, I'm with the herd that reserves and/or high opening bids don't bother me; I know what I want to pay and bid accordingly. As a seller $1 opening bids scare me, 'cause my luck, it will sell for $1.

Russ has turned no reserve auctions into an art form, and proves that $1 opening bids get lots of attention.

Joe

relayer · June 11, 2005 4:03AM

If it's a coin that I want/need at the price listed, then I'll bid. If I'm just shopping then no.

If you go to a coin shop, show or even this guys site there are minimum prices

Dukie101 · June 11, 2005 4:11AM

Reserves usually turns me off,but I must say I've missed some deals by not bidding. Minimium openers don't bother me if within reason. From a sellers standpoint I don't like listing with a reserve,but once in a blue moon I will,depending on the coin which means I don't care if it sells or not. .99 cent starters are for coins I don't want to see anymore or something I'm confident that will bid up. That's my 2 cents worth and opinion.

ColonialCoinUnion · June 11, 2005 4:15AM

Not discouraged at all.

If its a good coin, my expectation is that someone isn't going to dump it into an auction with no protection.

Why should a seller take that risk?

iras4 · June 11, 2005 4:48AM

I dunno. Mark. As a dealer, I'm not about to start my auctions at a low amount with no reserve and let the marketplace decide for me what it's worth. I frequently have $10,000 plus coins for sale, and if I were to do that I'd be out of business in no time!

Just before the Long Beach show I tried to sell a PCGS graded VF-25 1796 25c with a minimum bid of $32400 (my cost was $32000) with no takers..tried this 3 times. Then, I decided to start at around $9995 with a $32800 reserve and paid the damn $100 eBay wants for a reserve fee for any item $10,000 or more. This time, bidding got up to about $25,000, less than wholesale bid for a VF-20 and well below what we dealers have to pay for these rare early coins in the marketplace. This was an attractive coin BTW, not an ugly one.

Well, I sold it in Long Beach to a dealer for $34,000 with no resistance. This is NOT an isolated instance. I'm a key date dealer and I often don't get a closing bid even approaching my cost. Still, eBay gets its 1% reserve fee each time an item is listed with a reserve, and on an expensive item it might take 6 X or more to sell it. Frankly, I do better by just setting a minimum a small amount above my cost, and thus far this year my margins are lower than they've EVER been. I work harder, risk more capital, and earn less.

I often find myself completing with a closed auction of the very coin I'm selling, yet at a price maybe 25% of my price. Of course, the seller has no such coin and is merely capitalizing on my auctions to draw the suckers in, folks who think they are getting the buy of a lifetime, only to discover their wired funds or Western Union Moneygram has vanished long with their dreams of a rip. That 1856 Flying Eagle Cent is Proof-64 with a $2995 BIN is as phony as the cover story these scammers use to lure in the unsuspecting.

Most items at the big auction houses have a hidden reserve, so I can't quite understand how you, Mark, as a dealer, find the idea of a reserve so objectionable. Sure, if one hopes to buy nice material at under wholesale and under seller cost a realtistic goal, then go for it! Except for common stuff, I doubt you or anyone will be successful except for an isolated instance here and there.

All the dealers I know, and I mean ALL, who run eBay auctions with real low starting bids that claim they have no reserves either have confederates bid for them or have several eBay IDs or family member IDs they use to prevent losses.

Ira

PerryHall · June 11, 2005 5:12AM

<< I usually NEVER bid on an auction that has a RESERVE, Now the minimum opening depends on what the amount the minimum is!

TorinoCobra71 >>

coinguy1 · June 11, 2005 5:20AM

<< Most items at the big auction houses have a hidden reserve, so I can't quite understand how you, Mark, as a dealer, find the idea of a reserve so objectionable. Sure, if one hopes to buy nice material at under wholesale and under seller cost a realtistic goal, then go for it! Except for common stuff, I doubt you or anyone will be successful except for an isolated instance here and there. >>

Ira, it's not that I find the reserves or high minimum bids so objectionable. It's that, while I can understand the reasons for them, they usually discourage me from taking a closer look at listings - sorry if I gave the wrong impression.

I scroll through many Ebay listings, bid on a very small percentage of them and win a smaller percentage, still.

My original post was not meant to be a complaint, but an admission of my bias in such cases. I was also curious as to what other forum members thought about the subject.

nwcs · June 11, 2005 5:28AM

Doesn't bother me. I'll just bid something and if it goes through, great.

mozin · June 11, 2005 6:37AM

If I see an Ebay listing I would really like and it has a reserve I will email the seller asking for the reserve price. If the reserve suits me I will snipe. If the reserve is too high, or I am not given the reserve price, I simply pass on the coin. Then, of course I have less interest in buying from that seller.

I have successfully sniped a number of coins at reasonable opening bid amounts when I felt the BIN prices were too high.

mercurynut · June 11, 2005 6:45AM

I skip all reserve auctions.

Russ · June 11, 2005 7:36AM

<< From a sellers standpoint I don't like listing with a reserve,but once in a blue moon I will >>

Ditto. The vast majority of mine are $1 no reserve, but every now and then I do set a reserve. When I do, I post the amount right in the auction description so there's no guesswork for my bidders. BTW, the last reserve auction I ran brought more than double my reserve. I was a little low on that estimate.

I assume those of you who refuse to bid in reserve auctions on eBay have also never bid at Heritage, Superior, Goldberg, ANR or any other auction venue, right? It's only fair, since every single one of them uses reserves.

Russ, NCNE

Longacre · June 11, 2005 1:00PM

It does not matter to me, so long as the opening bid is reasonable. If not, then I just move on.

rmoss · June 11, 2005 1:32PM

I don't bid on items with reserves. Why doesn't the seller just set the opening price at the minimum they will take for the coin. Reserves are like car salesmen, I don't have time or patience to play games.

numonebuyer · June 11, 2005 1:37PM

I place no limitations that you listed on my bidding. If the coin has a decent picture and the seller has a decent feedback rating, then I will bid.

VAMs4U2BuyHere · June 11, 2005 10:01PM

As Russ has already pointed out, all of the major auction houses use reserves. And Teletrade suggests that the seller bid on his own coins as a psuedo-reserve, or, as we better know it, shill bid.

<< I don't bid on items with reserves. >>

While I respect the opinions of those who choose not to bid on reserve auctions, it simply does not make any logical sense. It's a text book example of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

I present this example:

You're searching for a coin, you find THE coin, it has a reserve, you pass, you lose. End of story.

The alternative:

You're searching for a coin, you find THE coin, it has a reserve, you know the coin is worth $1,200, you would be willing to pay $900, you place a bid of $800 just to see what happens.

There are three possible outcomes:
You don't meet the reserve, you continue your search.
You meet the reserve but don't win the coin due to an overbid, you continue your search.
You meet the reserve and win the coin at a price even lower than you were willing to pay.

There is simply NO INCREASED RISK OF LOSS for you bidding in a reserve auction in comparison to a no reserve auction, but there is an increased chance of owning the coin at a reasonable price. It's a no-brainer.

JMHO

With that said, as a seller, I've tried reserve auctions recently and found that they were not only cost prohibitive, but ultimately resulted in less bidding and lower bidding. Even when the reserve price was clearly stated in the auction from the start. I no longer use reserves unless a consignor requests it.

BigD5 · June 11, 2005 10:54PM

My thinking is on the same line as jdimmick. I try to avoid .99 start auctions, but do TRY to toss a few in there each week. Starting bids at a wholesale number are generally where I like to keep the bulk of my listings. Not all the time, and it varies from one week to the next.

I'll toss a reserve auction up every once in a while as well, although I never realized the absolute detest many bidders have for this auction format. It puzzles me, but I've seen too many threads with that pure hatred of the reserve auction expressed. Maybe I toss the occasional reserve auction in to boil the blood.

I've pretty much given up on .99 start auctions. A lot of items get to where they should, but there are too many coins that fall through the cracks, so to speak, and as a seller, I take a hit that I never needed to take. I tracked the results over a short period of time (hoping the misses would be offset by the hits), but some of the misses are so poor, it doesn't seem likely to recover.

Is there ANYONE that cares for an auction that states "no reserve". Who cares?

As far as bidding, I bid. I don't care what auction type the item is listed at, I'm bidding on coins, not auction types. I only care to see a return priv., decent feedback, and reasonable shipping costs. I bid, and move on. Don't win much, but that's ok, not looking to win much.

zzzz · June 11, 2005 11:48PM

I am more leery of auctions with .01 or .99 starting prices with the proverbial NR. (for higher end coins) The first thing I think of is there will be a lot of SHILL bidding going on. I get a kick out of some of these very board members who swear by the .01 and .99 auctions but then have a fellow board member(s) bid up the auction to a reasonable price. Shill bidding but a little smarter than the sellers who use the shill with less than a handful of feedbacks.

I’m much more comfortable knowing going in what the minimum price the seller will take then as everyone should do anyway is I do my homework and come up with a price I’m comfortable paying. If the starting price is less I bid my max. If I don’t meet the reserve so be it. I move on to the next auction.

flaminio · June 12, 2005 2:18AM

<< The vast majority of mine are $1 no reserve, >>

If you're starting at $1, you're losing 5c per auction. 99c/NR cost a nickel less than $1/NR ones do.

I should think a Ferengi would care about such things

.

ebaytrader · June 12, 2005 2:35AM

<< I pay far less attention to such offerings. >>

<< I skip all reserve auctions >>

?????????

You'll bid on Heritage, ANR, Goldbergs, Stack's, Superior, RM Smythe, etc., though. (They're all reserve auctions - nearly every last lot)

Odd position to take.

Dave99B · September 28, 2005 6:18AM

Reserves are for sissies! Nuf said!

Dave

billboat · September 28, 2005 6:24AM

I don't care--I'll pay what I think it's worth. If that's less than the reserve--fine by me.

fishcooker · September 28, 2005 7:15AM

Reserve = No bid. Poop or get off the pot.

High minimum bid = At least you were honest. Bid if appropriate.

stimmy · September 28, 2005 7:19AM

Doesn't matter to me, I know what I want and what price I am willing to pay. So a reserve or minimum bid does not matter if I'm willing to pay it.

itsnotjustme · September 28, 2005 7:30AM

Do an e-bay search on items with PCGS and 179* in the title. You will see many coins I need. You will also see no bids by me!

itsnotjustme · September 28, 2005 7:31AM

I should add....

When the opening bid would represent a bargian (but not a RIP) price that is OK. But when the opening is a what I dream I can get price, I don't touch it.

OKbustchaser · September 28, 2005 7:45AM

I STILL don't see a reason for avoiding reserve auctions....(of couse, people have said I was a little dense before.

) I bid what I am willing to pay...I either meet the reserve or I don't. End of story.

What turns me off are the .01 or .99 starting bids. As buyers we know that a seller isn't going to let that 100.00 (1000.00) coin go for 99 cents and that if that bid won the coin would suddenly get "lost in the mail". As a seller just start your auction at a price you will accept and be done with it.

Jim

Lakesammman · September 28, 2005 8:25AM

Would rather see a opening bid at reserve than a reserve revealed later on.

RGL · September 28, 2005 8:37AM

I think the low-start, no reserve auctions attract a lot more bidder interest and competition. A reasonable, but higher opening bid is OK, but reserves tend to turn me off... again, depends on the item.

How much, if at all, are you discouraged from bidding on EBay items which have minimum opening bids

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