DDO,DDR, ?????????

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lonelyp
lonelyp Posts: 1,634
in U.S. Coin Forum
Seeing coins discribed as DDO, or DDR, I thought this was for dubble die obverse or reverse. But looking at the NCG pop report I think I am wrong about this. As they have a specific list for 1955 dubble die, and 1955 ddo and so on.

I looked arond a little but havent found the answer.
Will some one please explain?
Thanks
pz
(Old man) Look I had a lovely supper, and all I said to my wife was, “That piece of halibut was good enough for Jehovah”.

(Priest) BLASPHEMY he said it again, did you hear him?

Comments

  • Darkmane
    Darkmane Posts: 1,021 ✭
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    i think double dies are due to errors in the dies themselves, and therefore there are many types of different doubles..... there could be 5 or 10 double die varieties for 1955, etc.
  • pharmer
    pharmer Posts: 8,355 ✭
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    It could be like ANACS's pop reports, which have different lines and numbers for the same coin because there was inconsistency in the labeling on the slab. Some abbreviate DDO, some spell it out, creating different listings for the same thing. Because of added lack of specificity on NGC slabs about which DDO, etc they are labeling, it gets more confused. So, the reports' line items reflect how the slab is labeled. Sounds too simple, but that's really it.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

    Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."

    image
  • koynekwest
    koynekwest Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    ANACS has the bad habit of labeling a coin "Doubled die" without further attribution. On coins that have more than one doubled die (many) this really screws up any purported population numbers, since you can't tell WHICH doubled die the numbers refer to. I wouldn't be surprised if NGC doesn't do the same thing.
  • RELLA
    RELLA Posts: 963 ✭✭✭
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    lonelyp,

    In the specific case that you mention (1955 DDO vs. 1955 Doubled Die Obverse) this difference is not at all about "accounting" on their part. Used to be that NGC only slabbed a select few "big" varieties in most 20th century series; they now will attribute ANY die variety or other variety that is listed in the Cherrypickers' guide system (whether or not the variety appears in a published book...just has to be listed and given a number in the system). The "DDO FS-021.9" is not the same as the "big" 1955 DDO; it is a different die pairing with less dramatic doubling...but still a very nice die variety in its own right.

    pharmer's example is also a problem at times with NGC, just not in this situation.





    << <i>ANACS has the bad habit of labeling a coin "Doubled die" without further attribution >>



    "bad habit" my @$$...ANACS doesn't (and can't) assign die numbers in anyone's die attribution system, so no matter how "big" a die variety is if it isn't PUBLISHED as Die "ABC" or RPM-XYZ or whatever by someone else they can't just give it a new number...they grade and attribute; they don't maintain their own die variety numbering system. They also don't attribute for free...if I have a DDO or DDR or RPM but don't know WHICH ONE it is it only costs me $1 extra to get it slabbed as such...just no die number for that $1...if I don't know the die number it will cost me $6 extra if I want the coin slabbed with the die number...and if there's no published record of that die then I just threw away the extra $5 (at least in terms of what the slab will say when I get it back). Bottom line...not their problem; not their fault.

    RELLA
    Do not fall into the error of the artisan
    who boasts of twenty years experience in his craft
    while in fact he has had only one year of experience...
    twenty times.
  • Marknish666
    Marknish666 Posts: 8 ✭
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    Doubled dies are created when the hub imprints an additional, misaligned image onto a die. There are many ways this misalignment of images can occur, which have been classified into eight accepted classes:

    Class 1, Rotated
    A class I doubled die results when the die receives an additional hubbing that is misaligned in a clockwise or counterclockwise direction.
    Class 2, Distorted
    A class 2 doubled die results when the hub's design moves toward the rim between hubbings.
    Class 3, Design
    A class 3 doubled die results when a hub bearing a different design stamps a die bearing another design.
    Class 4, Offset
    A class 4 doubled die results when the die receives an additional hubbing that is misaligned in an offset direction.
    Class 5, Pivoted
    A class 5 doubled die results when the die receives an additional hubbing that was misaligned via rotation with a pivot point near the rim.
    Class 6, Distended
    A class 6 doubled die results when the die receives an additional hubbing from a hub that was distended.
    Class 7, Modified
    A class 7 doubled die results when the hub is modified between the die's hubbings (e.g., a design element was chiseled off).
    Class 8, Tilted
    A class 8 doubled die results when a die and/or hub is tilted during a hubbing.

  • Marknish666
    Marknish666 Posts: 8 ✭
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    Cla
    Ss
    2
    Doubled di![](https://us.v-cdn.net/6027503/uploads/editor/ga/thnx0adqc1u0.jpg
    Class two DoubleD die. That's an ED at the end of double.
    1970 S nickel proof

  • Oldhoopster
    Oldhoopster Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Mark,
    Nice post but the original thread is over 14 years old. You may want to check the dates next time something pops up in a search.

    BTW : Welcome to the CU forum

    Member of the ANA since 1982
  • Hemispherical
    Hemispherical Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    14 year old

    OLD THREAD ALERT

  • ricko
    ricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Marknish666....Welcome aboard...and good input, even if on an old thread....Cheers, RickO

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