Something like that. And I also wonder if they are going to reprint all the slams in the judge's opinion, just like they repeated all of ACG's outrageous allegations.
From the plaintiff's web site... Take it for what you will:
"The year 2005 will bring to a culmination four years of turmoil brought on by an industry that does not foster competition in a healthy environment. Our small and heretofore well-respected Florida based coin grading and authentication company has filed suit in Federal Court in the District of Columbia alleging that PCGS/Collectors Universe, Inc. (“PCGS”), Heritage Capitol Corporation (“Heritage”), the American Numismatic Association (ANA”), the Professional Numismatists Guild (“PNG”), the Industry Council for Tangible Assets (ICTA”), Rec.Collecting.Coins.Com (“RCC”), Barry Stuppler & Co., Inc. (“Stuppler”) and NuGrade, LLC conspired to engage in and engaged in Federal Antitrust violations that have resulted in the destruction of true competition in the rare coin grading industry and have destroyed ACG’s business."
<< <i>From the plaintiff's web site... Take it for what you will:
"The year 2005 will bring to a culmination four years of turmoil brought on by an industry that does not foster competition in a healthy environment. Our small and heretofore well-respected Florida based coin grading and authentication company has filed suit in Federal Court in the District of Columbia alleging that PCGS/Collectors Universe, Inc. (“PCGS”), Heritage Capitol Corporation (“Heritage”), the American Numismatic Association (ANA”), the Professional Numismatists Guild (“PNG”), the Industry Council for Tangible Assets (ICTA”), Rec.Collecting.Coins.Com (“RCC”), Barry Stuppler & Co., Inc. (“Stuppler”) and NuGrade, LLC conspired to engage in and engaged in Federal Antitrust violations that have resulted in the destruction of true competition in the rare coin grading industry and have destroyed ACG’s business." >>
It will be most interesting to see what changes they make to their website in light of the decision.
<< <i>i didn't read everything...bottom line.....is it ALL over? >>
The Florida suit is still alive, but barely. But these people have proven to be vexatious litigants, so most likely they will try again. Eventually certain people will go on the offense and shut them down for good in regards to using the legal system to harrass people.
<< <i>The Florida suit is still alive, but barely. But these people have proven to be vexatious litigants, so most likely they will try again.
Yes. We have seen that litigation can go on endlessly in Florida. I doubt we have heard the last of the Hagers. >>
You cut out the second part of my post. If they are smart, they will drop this nonsense. If they attempt to file another suit, they will be shut down legally. They have a well documented record of abusing the legal system in response to criticism, and this time, they've picked some formiddable adversaries. There are some serious resources lined up in the event they do something stupid like filing yet another suit.
The pathetic part of all this is Hager knows how to grade. What if he had taken ACG in a different direction and graded according to everyone else standards? I have a feeling he might be in a different position today.
<< <i>The pathetic part of all this is Hager knows how to grade. What if he had taken ACG in a different direction and graded according to everyone else standards? I have a feeling he might be in a different position today. >>
Alan and Diane have a specialty in self-destructing. Call it stupidity, arrogance, greed; they finally found something where they are the market leader.
Anyone named is owed an apology. The Hagers were trying to squeeze some settlement money and use it as their vindication.
Now we have to rescue those poor coins still entombed in ACG plastic before they are thrown away.
The snails can now return to their bottom-feeding position.
Joe
The Philadelphia Mint: making coins since 1792. We make money by making money. Now in our 225th year thanks to no competition.
<< From the plaintiff's web site... Take it for what you will:
"The year 2005 will bring to a culmination four years of turmoil brought on by an industry that does not foster competition in a healthy environment. Our small and heretofore well-respected Florida based coin grading and authentication company has filed suit in Federal Court in the District of Columbia alleging that PCGS/Collectors Universe, Inc. (“PCGS”), Heritage Capitol Corporation (“Heritage”), the American Numismatic Association (ANA”), the Professional Numismatists Guild (“PNG”), the Industry Council for Tangible Assets (ICTA”), Rec.Collecting.Coins.Com (“RCC”), Barry Stuppler & Co., Inc. (“Stuppler”) and NuGrade, LLC conspired to engage in and engaged in Federal Antitrust violations that have resulted in the destruction of true competition in the rare coin grading industry and have destroyed ACG’s business." >>
Well, you have to admit they are right about this, it is coming to a culmination. They got tossed out on their ear and their case was dismissed.
<< The only thing more ridiculous than the lawsuits themselves is that they were actually able to find lawyers stupid enough to file them.>>
You got to remember that lawyers get paid by the hour. A lot of them don't really care if the suit has merit or not as long as they get their hourly fee.
Take it from someone on the other side of all those workers compensation lawyers on TV. If you pay them thay will file, no matter how downright stupid it is.
Not really surprising though. Their suit had no basis for an anti-trust/Sherman Act claim. While the civil case in Florida remains intact and viable, I'm wondering what is going on there. I don't see the Florida claim being dismissed. If the Hagar's have the money to push that one, I can see a trial coming.
As for the lawyers being greedy/stupid, no one here has any knowledge as to the discussions the Hagar's had with their lawyers. If they were informed by their counsel they didnt have a snowball's chance with a anti-trust lawsuit, but still wanted to file it, the lawyer has done his job. As a lawyer, we cant block people's access to the court system. If they have the money to pay hourly fees of $300 and they want to pay, they can file their claims. Sorry, but lots of stupid lawsuits get filed everyday because there are plenty of stupid people in this world.
This is far from over. I'm also wondering why no one yet has filed claims against ACG and the Hagars based on their grading/system and the grading of counterfeit coins????
<< <i>but a federal ruling tossing out antitrust allegations is a pretty important precedent. >>
How??? It has no effect on the state claim? It only reaffirms what most believed would happen. I'm not saying this isnt good news, just that it isnt ground shaking news.
Actually, if I were a defendant in the state claim, I wouldnt be too happy about this. I'd rather see ACG lose at the end of a long and costly trial. With their litigation funds expended in the federal claim, less $$$ would be available for prosecuting the state claim, which I think they have a better shot at. The reason why they havent done anything with the state claim -- IMHO -- is that they've been spinning their wheels in Federal Court. I have a feeling, they might start back on the state claim. The Hagar's would have been able to recover much larger damages from the deep-pockets of the industry if they had been successful on the anti-trust claim and I believe thats why this lawsuit was filed as opposed to going to litigate the state civil claim.
I'm not sure, but I doubt the Hagar's are going to give up on their Florida claims. They might -- if they have no $$$ left to litigate. Or they just dont see a payoff coming from that lawsuit, even if they do prevail. Its hard to collect $$$ from individuals after a judgement and sometimes it costs as much to collect as a prevailing party as you have actually been awarded.
Lets see what the Hagars do in regard to the state claims. I doubt if they'll appeal this. Appeals costs lots of money and they've been completely shut down by the Judge in his decision and order.
Always took candy from strangers Didn't wanna get me no trade Never want to be like papa Working for the boss every night and day --"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
Michael, they have serious problems with their state suit as well, namely jurisdictional issues and federal trumping. It's closer to being over than you may think.
<< <i>The only thing more ridiculous than the lawsuits themselves is that they were actually able to find lawyers stupid enough to file them.
Russ, NCNE >>
Actually Russ, that is the least ridiculous part of the entire affair, lots of lawyers will file anything for a fee and to suggest that there aren't stupid lawyers is more ridiculous.
Comments
<< <i>Wonder how long this will take to make Coin World. >>
Considering how long it took them the first time, maybe 8 months?
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WS
"In any case,plaintiffs claim is unsupported by fact,is illogical on it's face,and exposes the boilerplate character of the pleading:.
Bwahahahahahahaha !
"The year 2005 will bring to a culmination four years of turmoil brought on by an industry that does not foster competition in a healthy environment. Our small and heretofore well-respected Florida based coin grading and authentication company has filed suit in Federal Court in the District of Columbia alleging that PCGS/Collectors Universe, Inc. (“PCGS”), Heritage Capitol Corporation (“Heritage”), the American Numismatic Association (ANA”), the Professional Numismatists Guild (“PNG”), the Industry Council for Tangible Assets (ICTA”), Rec.Collecting.Coins.Com (“RCC”), Barry Stuppler & Co., Inc. (“Stuppler”) and NuGrade, LLC conspired to engage in and engaged in Federal Antitrust violations that have resulted in the destruction of true competition in the rare coin grading industry and have destroyed ACG’s business."
<< <i>From the plaintiff's web site... Take it for what you will:
"The year 2005 will bring to a culmination four years of turmoil brought on by an industry that does not foster competition in a healthy environment. Our small and heretofore well-respected Florida based coin grading and authentication company has filed suit in Federal Court in the District of Columbia alleging that PCGS/Collectors Universe, Inc. (“PCGS”), Heritage Capitol Corporation (“Heritage”), the American Numismatic Association (ANA”), the Professional Numismatists Guild (“PNG”), the Industry Council for Tangible Assets (ICTA”), Rec.Collecting.Coins.Com (“RCC”), Barry Stuppler & Co., Inc. (“Stuppler”) and NuGrade, LLC conspired to engage in and engaged in Federal Antitrust violations that have resulted in the destruction of true competition in the rare coin grading industry and have destroyed ACG’s business." >>
It will be most interesting to see what changes they make to their website in light of the decision.
My OmniCoin Collection
My BankNoteBank Collection
Tom, formerly in Albuquerque, NM.
Herb
<< <i>i didn't read everything...bottom line.....is it ALL over? >>
The Florida suit is still alive, but barely. But these people have proven to be vexatious litigants, so most likely they will try again. Eventually certain people will go on the offense and shut them down for good in regards to using the legal system to harrass people.
My World Coin Type Set
<< <i>The Florida suit is still alive, but barely. But these people have proven to be vexatious litigants, so most likely they will try again.
<< <i>
Yes. We have seen that litigation can go on endlessly in Florida. I doubt we have heard the last of the Hagers.
<< <i>The Florida suit is still alive, but barely. But these people have proven to be vexatious litigants, so most likely they will try again.
Yes. We have seen that litigation can go on endlessly in Florida. I doubt we have heard the last of the Hagers. >>
You cut out the second part of my post. If they are smart, they will drop this nonsense. If they attempt to file another suit, they will be shut down legally. They have a well documented record of abusing the legal system in response to criticism, and this time, they've picked some formiddable adversaries. There are some serious resources lined up in the event they do something stupid like filing yet another suit.
Starring Eric Tillery as "THE VAMPIRE HUNTER"
Alan Hager as "COUNT SLABULA"
and Diane Hager as "BRIDE of SLABULA"
See Eric the vampire hunter in action!!!
Photos of the 2006 Boston Massacre
STUPIDITY OR GREED? Did the lawyers do this on a contingency basis? I doubt it.
Jim
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
<< <i>heretofore well-respected >>
By whom?
Tom
<< <i>Eric, are you now allowed to talk about the case or do you still have to keep quiet?
Tom >>
Tom, the state case is still alive so I have to be careful. Once that's over with, I will tell the entire story, and some of it is pretty amazing.
<< <i>
<< <i>Eric, are you now allowed to talk about the case or do you still have to keep quiet?
Tom >>
Tom, the state case is still alive so I have to be careful. Once that's over with, I will tell the entire story, and some of it is pretty amazing. >>
Do I smell a book deal in the works??
TorinoCobra71
I'm looking forward to hearing the entire story!!
Can't grade a coin, can't pick a lawyer ...
The Ludlow Brilliant Collection (1938-64)
Looking for PCGS AU58 Washington's, 32-63.
<< <i>The pathetic part of all this is Hager knows how to grade. What if he had taken ACG in a different direction and graded according to everyone else standards? I have a feeling he might be in a different position today. >>
GREED
Anyone named is owed an apology. The Hagers were trying to squeeze some settlement money and use it as their vindication.
Now we have to rescue those poor coins still entombed in ACG plastic before they are thrown away.
The snails can now return to their bottom-feeding position.
Joe
Hopefully the Hagers will realize it is pointless to continue, fold up their tent, and drop the Florida suit
"The year 2005 will bring to a culmination four years of turmoil brought on by an industry that does not foster competition in a healthy environment. Our small and heretofore well-respected Florida based coin grading and authentication company has filed suit in Federal Court in the District of Columbia alleging that PCGS/Collectors Universe, Inc. (“PCGS”), Heritage Capitol Corporation (“Heritage”), the American Numismatic Association (ANA”), the Professional Numismatists Guild (“PNG”), the Industry Council for Tangible Assets (ICTA”), Rec.Collecting.Coins.Com (“RCC”), Barry Stuppler & Co., Inc. (“Stuppler”) and NuGrade, LLC conspired to engage in and engaged in Federal Antitrust violations that have resulted in the destruction of true competition in the rare coin grading industry and have destroyed ACG’s business." >>
Well, you have to admit they are right about this, it is coming to a culmination. They got tossed out on their ear and their case was dismissed.
<< <i>Does this mean we can start speaking our minds concerning ACG without fear of retrobution? >>
I recommend you use judgment and follow the law regarding libel and slander regardless of this suit. c
<< <i>Our small and heretofore well-respected >>
Russ, NCNE
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
You got to remember that lawyers get paid by the hour. A lot of them don't really care if the suit has merit or not as long as they get their hourly fee.
Take it from someone on the other side of all those workers compensation lawyers on TV. If you pay them thay will file, no matter how downright stupid it is.
Not really surprising though. Their suit had no basis for an anti-trust/Sherman Act claim. While the civil case in Florida remains intact and viable, I'm wondering what is going on there. I don't see the Florida claim being dismissed. If the Hagar's have the money to push that one, I can see a trial coming.
As for the lawyers being greedy/stupid, no one here has any knowledge as to the discussions the Hagar's had with their lawyers. If they were informed by their counsel they didnt have a snowball's chance with a anti-trust lawsuit, but still wanted to file it, the lawyer has done his job. As a lawyer, we cant block people's access to the court system. If they have the money to pay hourly fees of $300 and they want to pay, they can file their claims. Sorry, but lots of stupid lawsuits get filed everyday because there are plenty of stupid people in this world.
This is far from over. I'm also wondering why no one yet has filed claims against ACG and the Hagars based on their grading/system and the grading of counterfeit coins????
TPN
<< <i>This is far from over. >>
You're right, of course, but a federal ruling tossing out antitrust allegations is a pretty important precedent.
Glad to hear it!!
collections: Maryland related coins & exonumia, 7070 Type set, and Video Arcade Tokens.
The Low Budget Y2K Registry Set
<< <i>but a federal ruling tossing out antitrust allegations is a pretty important precedent. >>
How??? It has no effect on the state claim? It only reaffirms what most believed would happen. I'm not saying this isnt good news, just that it isnt ground shaking news.
Actually, if I were a defendant in the state claim, I wouldnt be too happy about this. I'd rather see ACG lose at the end of a long and costly trial. With their litigation funds expended in the federal claim, less $$$ would be available for prosecuting the state claim, which I think they have a better shot at. The reason why they havent done anything with the state claim -- IMHO -- is that they've been spinning their wheels in Federal Court. I have a feeling, they might start back on the state claim. The Hagar's would have been able to recover much larger damages from the deep-pockets of the industry if they had been successful on the anti-trust claim and I believe thats why this lawsuit was filed as opposed to going to litigate the state civil claim.
I'm not sure, but I doubt the Hagar's are going to give up on their Florida claims. They might -- if they have no $$$ left to litigate. Or they just dont see a payoff coming from that lawsuit, even if they do prevail. Its hard to collect $$$ from individuals after a judgement and sometimes it costs as much to collect as a prevailing party as you have actually been awarded.
Lets see what the Hagars do in regard to the state claims. I doubt if they'll appeal this. Appeals costs lots of money and they've been completely shut down by the Judge in his decision and order.
TPN
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
Well thank goodness that's over. Now maybe their turn-around time will pick up & I'll get my submissions back.
<< <i>The only thing more ridiculous than the lawsuits themselves is that they were actually able to find lawyers stupid enough to file them.
Russ, NCNE >>
Actually Russ, that is the least ridiculous part of the entire affair, lots of lawyers will file anything for a fee and to suggest that there aren't stupid lawyers is more ridiculous.
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