1807-1812 Capped Bust $5 PCGS/NGC grades AU58 to MS63
mozin
Posts: 8,755 ✭✭✭
I have always admired these coins but never thought I could afford one of them. Recently I sold enough coins to be able to afford one from this series. My research has shown me that NGC grades about half a grade higher than PCGS on this series. Also, from what I see there are a lot of AU58 to MS61 coins in somewhat interchangeable holders, meaning the grading services are doing a terrible job on this short series. Since I am looking to buy my one best coin ever in this series I would like your input before I blow my $ wad on the wrong coin. I don't even know which date I should buy.
I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
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Comments
Shy away from the 61-62 grade unless the coins drips originality.
John
siliconvalleycoins.com
<< <i>Buy a 58...or a 63...
Shy away from the 61-62 grade unless the coins drips originality.
John >>
So you do not trust the grading services on AU58 to MS62 grading either?
But...there are some real 62's out there that are nice.
J
siliconvalleycoins.com
<< <i>I never completely trust the grading services...especially when it comes to that grade range on bust coinage.
But...there are some real 62's out there that are nice.
J >>
Do you happen to own any of the coins I want in this series?
I sold them both to board members...
John
siliconvalleycoins.com
You're statements about NGC are incorrect.
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>I'll be putting some up at auction soon. I've got almost 20 coins to sell ranging from 55-63. They'll be going to an ANR sale.
You're statements about NGC are incorrect.
Tom >>
So are you saying that NGC grades this capped bust gold seies as strictly as does PCGS?
<< <i>
<< <i>I'll be putting some up at auction soon. I've got almost 20 coins to sell ranging from 55-63. They'll be going to an ANR sale.
You're statements about NGC are incorrect.
Tom >>
So are you saying that NGC grades this capped bust gold seies as strictly as does PCGS? >>
How many early 5's have you examined? How many 1806 pted 6's in au as a case in point have you looked at with a loupe, without the owner saying "pass or play" right in front of you? Have you ever bought and sold an early gold coin and made a profit on it, dealer to dealer? What qualifies you to make the statement you did about NGC? I'd really like to know.
Now I've only bought and sold a few hundred early gold coins and frankly the services are about the same. Although the B/S propaganda can sure run deep sometimes.
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
How many early 5's have you examined? How many 1806 pted 6's in au as a case in point have you looked at with a loupe, without the owner saying "pass or play" right in front of you? Have you ever bought and sold an early gold coin and made a profit on it, dealer to dealer? What qualifies you to make the statement you did about NGC? I'd really like to know.
Now I've only bought and sold a few hundred early gold coins and frankly the services are about the same. Although the B/S propaganda can sure run deep sometimes.
Tom >>
Your comments on this thread are appreciated and I do understand that you are a dealer specializing in these type of coins.
I certainly have not examined as many early US gold as you have but I am restricting myself to 1807-1812 capped bust left $5, not the 1806's you mentioned. I am not talking about buying and selling this special coin I want to make a profit as you said, only buying one coin to keep forever. My PCGS versus NGC grading statement is based on personal observation and speaking with a number of larger coin dealers that routinely deal in such coins, not the local coin dealers.
In checking your web site early US gold inventory you show more than 80% in NGC holders so you must like NGC coins in the gold series.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Your perception is your perception. If someone like TDN makes a statement regarding Trade Dollars, I dont need his credentials to understand that his view is more based in knowledge than mine. My whole point is that you dont need to run over someone if you have a different point of view and more experience.
Half a point is really very little when you get down to it. Particularly when you are talking coins that routinely slide back and forth between grades.
<< <i>
<< <i>I'll be putting some up at auction soon. I've got almost 20 coins to sell ranging from 55-63. They'll be going to an ANR sale.
You're statements about NGC are incorrect.
Tom >>
So are you saying that NGC grades this capped bust gold seies as strictly as does PCGS? >>
What WE are saying is that when it comes to early coinage, you buy the coin, NOT the holder. While I'll admit all day long that PCGS modern coins are more reliable than NGC modern coins. BUT when it comes to the classics, you have to know how to grade and really LOOK
In dealer to dealer transactions I've some both NGC and PCGS coins for well over the prices on the sheets because the coins were that nice. Niether services has a lock on "perfect coins" for the grade.
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>How many early 5's have you examined? How many 1806 pted 6's in au as a case in point have you looked at with a loupe, without the owner saying "pass or play" right in front of you? Have you ever bought and sold an early gold coin and made a profit on it, dealer to dealer? What qualifies you to make the statement you did about NGC? I'd really like to know. >>
Nice rant!!!
You're the gold expert?? Instead of going off on the guy why don't you share with him some of your vast knowledge of the series, like he's asked for.
<< <i>Now I've only bought and sold a few hundred early gold coins and frankly the services are about the same. Although the B/S propaganda can sure run deep sometimes. >>
<< <i>My research has shown me that NGC grades about half a grade higher than PCGS on this series. >>
"half a grade" That sounds ABOUT the same to me?
Now back on topic.
Mozin.....
Both services tend to be a bit inconsistant in their grading, which as you pointed out NGC being a bit looser (at times).
If you are looking for an AU example. I'd try to stick with a 53-55, for price reasons. You won't have to compete with the crack-out guys who think a 58 will upgrade. This is only important if buying out of an auction.
Look for nice smooth surfaces. Look for unsightly nicks, scratches, gouges or rim dings. Many coins have nasty marks. Stay away from glossy, dipped out coins that have that light yellow color. Most of these early gold coins have been dipped. The coin will appear sometimes to be a bit hazy with some of the high points being off color. A coin in an older holder is always nice. That way you eliminate the chances of it turning color in the holder if it has been recently dipped. You want a coin which may have a little bit of toning and the mint frost still intact. A little dirt always helps. Look for repairs, repaired coins do get into holders. Usually some sort of smoothing in the fields. Most of the dates are available unless you are looking for one of the tougher varieties. Take your time, be VERY picky and wait for the right coin. Nice original pieces are few and far between but do show up from time to time. My guess would be that fewer than 10% are original or appear to be original. At the largest shows you would be lucky to find 1-2 original circ coins. Originals are more available in MS or maybe they just take a cleaning better than circs. Don't buy raw!!!!
You should turn on your private messages feature in your "profile".
Edited to add: Here is my only early gold piece. One would have to look far and wide to find one equally attractive and original at any price point. (My credentials for saying so is that I have looked at the selection in dealer inventories over the course of the last two years and have looked at early $5's in about a half a dozen Heritage Signature sales over the same time period.
My advice to you is to decide which positive attributes are important to you, and which kinds of flaws you are willing to accept, and then search for a coin which has those characteristics. Your coin will NOT be "perfect" in the sense that modern coins are, unless you have 6 figures to spend on it, and even then, will be tough to find and you will face strong competition in auction. Your coin will have a flaw or two, and you must decide where you're willing to bend, is it on luster? original surfaces and color? marks? a bit of "rub" on the very highest points of an otherwise MS coin? Something has to give for the coin to grade in the high AU to low MS range.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>Mozin,
You should turn on your private messages feature in your "profile". >>
PM feature now turned on, although I don't know how to use it.
Thanks to all who have shown an interest in this thread so far, it is much appreciated. The previous thread on the 1807 $5 also gave good pertinent information.
I have collected Bust silver series in mostly AU grades for over 30 years so this $5 would fit right in.
Sent you a test private message. To view it, click on the padlock icon that's at the upper left hand corner of your screen under "Collector's Universe Message Boards". It should say "1 new message" or something like that.
<< <i>Mozin,
Sent you a test private message. To view it, click on the padlock icon that's at the upper left hand corner of your screen under "Collector's Universe Message Boards". It should say "1 new message" or something like that. >>
Thanks.
Anyone else have information to share?
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!