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LOUIS ELIASBERG, SR. THE "MODERN COIN" COLLECTOR!!!
oreville
Posts: 12,292 ✭✭✭✭✭
Incredible but true, snuck deep in his coin collection was this Peruvian GOLD coin dated 1965. I was stunned. I could NOT pass it up. I did not think Eliasberg would have ever thought of buying a post 1964 modern gold coin! He was certainly NOT known for ever doing so. I do not recall any post 1964 modern gold coin that was sold in his coin collection unless I missed it.
So the next time you modern coin collectors get bashed just tell the purists that "if a modern coin was good enough for Louis Eliasberg, Sr. it is good enough for me!!!"
I paid more than full price at $690 including the juice in competitive bidding.
If anyone has the original Eliasberg catalogue of US coins please list which modern gold coins he had in his sale dated 1965 and thereafter. I do not recall it.
Lot #3612
Description: Peru
1965 50 soles. Fr-79. MS-66 (NGC).
23.41 grams, 29.80 mm. Types as above. Frosty orange gold. ($250-400)
So the next time you modern coin collectors get bashed just tell the purists that "if a modern coin was good enough for Louis Eliasberg, Sr. it is good enough for me!!!"
I paid more than full price at $690 including the juice in competitive bidding.
If anyone has the original Eliasberg catalogue of US coins please list which modern gold coins he had in his sale dated 1965 and thereafter. I do not recall it.
Lot #3612
Description: Peru
1965 50 soles. Fr-79. MS-66 (NGC).
23.41 grams, 29.80 mm. Types as above. Frosty orange gold. ($250-400)
A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
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Bill: Yes, I missed it indeed. If I am not mistaken they were not individually listed and no pictures shown?
I asked Richard Eliasberg (his son) about that and he remarked that this foreign gold collection was a big surprise to them as it was and did not realize to the extent in which he pursued foreign coins as compared to US coins.
He was indeed a type collector for the most part of foreign gold coins. I wonder if there is more yet to come (meaning non gold foreign coin collection). I forgot to ask that question.
How big is it? (comparatively to a U.S. coin............quarter, 50 cent...etc...?)
Perhaps Eliasberg did not bother to get more foreign gold in the short time he had left after 1974. I think the gold ownership restrictions explain what you are noting.
As for his modern American coins, here are two examples from the catalog. Lot # 2165, April 6-8, 1997 sale - 1948 - 1963 Franklin half dollars - complete set graded from MS-63 to Proof- 66 by the cataloger. Lot # 2166, 1964 to date (1976) Kennedy half dollars, grade from MS-62 to MS-66 (from Special Mint Set).
The bottom line was Eliasberg was like many collectors of classic coins, like myself. He kept up with the modern stuff, but did not go crazy over it. Perhaps if he were alive today he'd be going for the high grade modern coins, but back then the super grades for modern coins were not important.
and put more effort into it but Pittman reportedly had extensive modern collections and
holdings. Perhaps even more worthy of note is that these coins were not in his estate
when it was sold back in '96-'98. The implication is that he advised his family to hold on
to these.
It might also be noted that most of the big 19th century collectors had coins right up to
the current date. Indeed this had been the standard since the very first coins went into
the very first collections 2,500 years ago. Granted, though, many collectors won't collect
anything made after a certain date and usually this is the date they began collecting.
Was Peruvian gold on the "legal to own gold coin list" at the time?
Where in the heck did all of his post 1964 coins go? I have not seen any of them for sale for as long as I can remember! Who has them?
<< <i>
The bottom line was Eliasberg was like many collectors of classic coins, like myself. He kept up with the modern stuff, but did not got crazy over it. Perhaps if he were alive today he'd be going for the high grade modern coins, but back then the super grades for modern coins were not important. >>
Thanks for the insights BillJones.
It doesn't seem that the super grades were any more or less important then than they are now.
Ultimately obsolete coins simply aren't important to anyone but collectors anyway.
But I can tell you a little about searching for high grade coins back in the mid-'70's. This was ex-
tremely labor intensive. There was lots of shuffling around boxes and driving all over God's green
Earth. Costs of doing this were also substantial but it was not something an old man might do
unless he were in the best of health and had great contacts and a lot of time to devote to it.
One had to identify the release points for gems and varieties by driving around looking for them
because there were no other collectors to tell you where they were. Other than the '72-D DDR 25c,
'70-S sd 1c, '72-DDO 1c and the '64 silver 25c, there were almost no reported varieties. If you didn't
find coins within three years of issue it was too late because that's how long it usually took the fed
to completely rotate out all of their coin including the new issues.
It was impossible to simply call up your friends and tell them you were in the market for nice attractive
clad. After they got done laughing they'd call you names. They didn't have any more access to it than
you did. A few times I was booted out of coin shops or given the bum's rush when they discovered I
was looking for clad. Fortunately I was a little imposing with my mint set lifting muscles.
around looking at estates there were never clad coins included because people didn't save rolls and bags
of this material. There were really only two ways to get them and both required a great deal of effort.
Either ypou found a friendly dealer who'd let you poke through his sets or you found them in the year of
issue.
Today people collect these not so much because they are important or unimportant but because they
can. You can still go out and find raw mint and proof sets and you can pick through dealers stock, but
the easiest way to find the coins can be done with a few clicks of the mouse. The grading service has
already identified many of the finest coins and put them in holders. The internet puts these coins right
in our homes through ebay and other venues.
Because these were so difficult to find in those days those who collected them were even harder to
find. Despite all the hours I spent looking I didn't bump into someone else who was looking until the
early 1980's!!!!!!! The implication of this is that there simply aren't many collection of clad to come
onto the market in the future. Even now really nice coins seem to get sucked into a blackhole and don't
reappear. This will continue until the growth in this area stops and considering how small it still is, that
could be a while. It might also be pointed out that there is a finite number of raw moderns and that
eventually there won't be anything to toss into the black hole of demand. Even some of the raw coins
appear to be getting a little tight.
30 milimeters diameter
23.4056 grams weight
.900 gold fineness (Alloy)
0.6772 Actual gold weight in troy ounces
Bigger than a US quarter and fairly close to the size of a US half dollar.
He probably would have forgot to answer anyway.
Maybe we should corner Rick Bagg and not let him go until he answers?
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
YOU SUCK! YOU SUCK! YOU SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I was underbidder on the 1965 (lot 3612) and lot (3608--a 1956 modern). Both coins were absolutely beautiful and in
my opinion better than MS 66's!!! I was high bid at $350/$500 max. until some crazy collector won it more than 2 TIMES !!! the low
estimate of $250.
Congradulations--
( By the way I did get a group lot of tiny PERU Indians (5 total lot 3595)) two in MS 66 and one in 65, but they were oldies (1906-1925) but I really wanted a modern too.!!! Glad that beauty found a good home. Bill P.
I purposely did NOT bid on the other late Peruvian lots especially lot #3611 (the 1961 Peru 100 soles in NGC MS-67) that sold for $2990 to avoid fanning the prices up anymore than necessary.
Oh well, I was successful buying the entire Eliasberg collection of coins from Nepal!!!--the bad news is it was comprised of only 3 coins, with 2 in MS!! Hopefully NGC will holder the group as a single multicoin set.
You action strategy was really smart. I though such a late date at the end of the sale might be ignored--but it didn't work and the 100 soles in MS 67 just before went to over $3000 if my computer "watch live sale" was correct.
Congrads again to anther new "modern collector"!!
As an aside===========
I was most amazed that he DID bring his dog to the auction room. I was AMAZED. Then I asked him how, how, how did you get in with your dog????? Then he said "Leona Helmsley" and I suddenly then remembered her favoritism towards those four legged ones.
I can just see myself carrying my 40+ pound mix breed yellow labrador in my arms and being treated the same way as Mr Eureka. My poor 10 year old baby would be scared out of her wits to be in my arms that long!