How do you feel about Sellers on Ebay holding your feedbacks hostage?

skate4357 · April 10, 2005 10:05AM

I for one give Positive feedback and shpping dates when the buyers pay for one of my auctions. I have in the last few weeks recieve a few emails stating their (sellers) feedback will be posted after I give mine. Is this a Hostage Situation?
How do you feel?
Would you give any feedback at all?
Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
Mike
M.E. Stewart Collections
coin_boy_57

kieferscoins · April 10, 2005 10:06AM

Many forum members thoughts

another thread

Cameron Kiefer

longtimecollector · April 10, 2005 10:08AM

Just what we need...........

Kiefer's snowed in............

I sense about 600-80 useless Kiefer posts coming soon to a forum near you !!!!!!!

Russ · April 10, 2005 10:09AM

<< I have in the last few weeks recieve a few emails stating their (sellers) feedback will be posted after I give mine. >>

I just tell them that as a buyer my policy is to post feedback after the seller does - or when hell freezes over. Whichever comes first.

Russ, NCNE

kieferscoins · April 10, 2005 10:10AM

Useless? I linked a thread with 4 pages of peoples thoughts on this subject. Give me a break.

Cameron Kiefer

longtimecollector · April 10, 2005 10:10AM

599-799 left to go !!!!!!!!

skate4357 · April 10, 2005 10:13AM

WOW Thanks Cameron Kiefer. That is Great stuff. I am sorry for the repete posting. This answers my question.
Again Thanks Mike

bgrice · April 10, 2005 10:30AM

Except for a couple of dealers/sellers on eBay I am attempting to avoid the place. The *feedback* thought might have had some merit when eBay started, but the place started to reek when it became etiquette that buyers have to give the feedback first. It's like going into Best Buy and having to say "Thank You" before ever buying anything.

LeeG · April 10, 2005 10:34AM

<< But the place started to reek when it became etiquette that buyers have to give the feedback first. It's like going into Best Buy and having to say "Thank You" before ever buying anything. >>

PutTogether · April 10, 2005 11:18AM

The whole idea pisses me off. Bad. If you pay for someones auction quickly, and exactly how they ask you to, you deserve positive feedback, PERIOD. If they decide to neg you after that, for WHATEVER reason - it still doesnt change the fact that the buyer did what he was supposed to do, when he was supposed to do it, and deserves a positive.

Pisses me off to no end when i pay someone seconds after the auction ends, and they refuse to give me a positive. What does how i react after the sale have anything to do with how fast and accurately I paid? As a matter of fact, next person that does that to me, I'm going to neg them. With a polite explanation that the transaction wasn't bad, its just they engage in the prohibited practice of hostaging feedback for possible retaliation purposes.

PutTogether · April 10, 2005 11:21AM

And if you want to check up on me, look up "fractionalgold" on ebay. I just sold an item. Gave the buyer a positive for a wonderful transaction. Check got lost in the mail, he called me on the phone, and made it right. GREAT buyer. I gave him a positive before I shipped the coin. He has yet to leave me feedback (probably has not received coin yet). If he is unhappy with the coin, or for some other reason decides to neg me.......it sucks, but it doesnt change the fact that they guy deserved a positive for the buying side of the transaction, and I have no right to hold him feedback hostage.

ss350camaro · April 10, 2005 12:14PM

Ask yourself this question:

"Is the transaction done when a buyer pays" ?

.

mozin · April 10, 2005 12:27PM

As buyers we are still at the whim of the seller deserving negative feedback, the seller who could retaliate by giving good buyers a negative.

Ebay needs to drastically change the feedback rules.

badgrdog · April 10, 2005 12:45PM

Feedback is just one small part of the system that makes the Ebay community a success. I am not a Power Seller by any means, I am just a member who enjoys the selling and buying. I have had many people not leave feedback for me and I have made multiple purchases from the same seller, which don't count towards the almighty colored star.

What I do with my sales is, I leave feedback immediately after receiving payment and when I ship I notified the buyer that feedback has been left for them and ask them to confirm the receipt of their item by leaving feedback. Still there are those members of the Ebay Community that just don't leave any feedback.

KurtHorn · April 10, 2005 12:48PM

This subject has been discussed ad nauseum. Read the links Cammie posted above. There are two sides to this issue just like there are two sides to feedback. Giving a seller a negative feedback has big consequences for the seller and none for the buyer. If you get negative feedback as a buyer it has little impact unless it's for refusing to pay... A buyer should have to at least attempt to contact the seller and give them a chance at making it right. If waiting to give feedback makes someone take a moment of pause before they slam an unwarranted negative on either seller or buyer, then that's a good thing. It's best to communicate first, negative later.

66Tbird · April 10, 2005 1:10PM

It's simple ''Ebay feedback is a joke'' but, you have to have as few negs as possible to make sales. With unscrupulous buyers just waiting to pounce like a children testing the limits of their parents, precautions have to be taken. If that entails having the buyer wait until he has the item in hand and is happy with the transaction then so be it.

For me I never even thought for a moment I should ever receive FB moments after clicking the paynow button. The first time it happened I was confused and felt pushed out the door with a big ''thank you'', and no money, no item, and everything was now in the hands of the PO. See ya sucker, deal over on my end.

I will say one thing though. It happens a lot more often on items other than coins IMO. I do give instant FB to people I've dealt with on good terms before.

To answer the question, give it time and in a three+ weeks leave the FB

Frank · April 10, 2005 10:46PM

I am a buyer. I pay immediately and expect feedback immediately. My new policy, I do not leave feedback first, except negative. Further, after I receive delivery of an item I remove it from my ebay page. If I later get a feedback, I do not research it to see who sent it, I just don't respond at all. I simply am fed up with the attitude of sellers holding me hostage and promising positive feedback IF I leave positive feedback. I have left ONE negative feedback in the whole time I have used ebay. That was for non-delivery and for four promises to refund my money. Each response was followed up with an e-mail and each e-mail received another excuse. Finally forgot the whole thing and left a negative. Of course I got a negative in return. Said I didn't understand the system and failed to communicate with him. NUTS!

K6AZ · April 10, 2005 10:52PM

You all know my response to this question when it comes up here.

Are you more interested in getting feedback or a nice coin shipped quickly?

I've bought coins from many sellers who do not post feedback first. Doesn't bother me in the least. I've bought many times from these sellers because they sell nice coins, and ship immediately after payment.

ziggy29 · April 10, 2005 11:00PM

<< My new policy, I do not leave feedback first, except negative. >>

Am I understanding this correctly? You are complaining about others not leaving feedback first, when you admit to doing the same? Sounds like you're playing as much of a "game" with feedback as your t rading partners.

markglicker · April 10, 2005 11:14PM

Wonder if Dansco makes an album for Feedback. Seems that buyers are more concerned about these baubles, then the coins that they buy.

K6AZ · April 10, 2005 11:29PM

They're better known as "feedback junkies".

mr1931S · April 10, 2005 11:40PM

"I am a buyer. I pay immediately and expect feedback immediately...I simply am fed up with the attitude of sellers holding me hostage and promising positive feedback IF I leave positive feedback."

I agree with this.

Camaro: "Ask yourself this question: "Is the transaction done when a buyer pays" ?"

The transaction is not necessarily "done," however, a buyer who has paid quickly with good funds deserves prompt feedback of the positive kind from the seller. The seller now needs to send the item out promptly to the buyer and move the transaction along. Providing prompt positive feedback to a prompt paying customer is a way of saying "Thank you for your business. I appreciate the way you are handling things by paying me quickly with good funds."

Seller, ask yourself this question: "Has the customer, at this early point in the transaction, fulfilled his primary obligation to me (which is to promptly pay for the merchandise with good funds) ?"

If the answer is "yes," give the guy positive feedback for cryin' out loud. Remember, what goes around comes around.

K6AZ · April 10, 2005 11:54PM

The buyer's obligations do not end with payment. If the coin should get lost in transit (and this is not a rare occurence) there is a section of postal form 1000 that the recipient must fill out for the claim to be paid. I know of several instances where buyers refused to fill out their part, and simply filed a reversal with PayPal.

ss350camaro · April 11, 2005 12:10AM

mr1874: "The transaction is not necessarily "done," however, a buyer who has paid quickly with good funds deserves prompt feedback of the positive kind from the seller. "

uh ........... no. The buyer has paid. They deserve , because they have paid for, prompt packaging and shipping.

mr1874: "The seller now needs to send the item out promptly to the buyer and move the transaction along."

agreed, see response above

mr1874: "Providing prompt positive feedback to a prompt paying customer is a way of saying "Thank you for your business. I appreciate the way you are handling things by paying me quickly with good funds."

an email to the buyer with the statement you typed would be just as good. The transaction is not completed yet.

mr1874: "Seller, ask yourself this question: "Has the customer, at this early point in the transaction, fulfilled his primary obligation to me (which is to promptly pay for the merchandise with good funds) ?"

yes, ............. but the transaction is not yet completed. The item could get lost in the mail, the seller might not be satisfied with the item ............etc.............The transaction is not completed yet.

mr1874: If the answer is "yes," give the guy positive feedback for cryin' out loud. Remember, what goes around comes around.

Sounds a lot like the typical threat from a buyer. You've proved part of my point for me

dthigpen · April 11, 2005 12:14AM

The few times which I do sell on Ebay, I always post positive feedback containing the ship date as soon as I receive payment (Or payment clears in the case of a check/mo). I expect other sellers to do the same with me, but it rarely happens, so I just don't leave them feedback as a result.

ziggy29 · April 11, 2005 12:14AM

All I ask is that a buyer let me know that they've received the coin and that they are satisfied with it. At that point, they *will* receive a positive, even if they never leave anything for me, assuming I didn't have to pull teeth to get them to pay up.

Once the buyer acknowledges receiving the coin and expresses the satisfaction, THEN the transaction is completed. Even if they never leave any feedback for me.

Too many buyers are claiming that all the sellers are insisting "you first" on the feedback. Not so. Just tell me you received the coin and that you like it.

mr1931S · April 11, 2005 12:16AM

I agree with you about buyer obligation not necessarily ending with payment, k6az. I just think seller leaving positive feedback very soon after receiving payment tends to keep transaction moving in a positive direction.

Most people are, and will be, reasonable. That's my theory.

Coinhusker1 · April 11, 2005 12:23AM

<< You all know my response to this question when it comes up here.

Are you more interested in getting feedback or a nice coin shipped quickly?

I've bought coins from many sellers who do not post feedback first. Doesn't bother me in the least. I've bought many times from these sellers because they sell nice coins, and ship immediately after payment. >>

I agree, Eric. The feedback hostage game is played on both sides, so I can understand why sellers do not leave it first. I think it is nice when they do, but is not a requirement for me to do business with them. Receiving nice coins shipped promptly is what pleases me most. Frankly, if you restrict yourself only to sellers who leave feedback first, you probably narrow yourself to only 25% of the market.

I guess this means that those obsessed with getting positive feedback first will not buy from the BST. There is no feedback to "collect" at all!!

ss350camaro · April 11, 2005 12:24AM

mr1874: "I just think seller leaving positive feedback very soon after receiving payment tends to keep transaction moving in a positive direction."

What's a more positive way to keep the

<< transaction moving in a positive direction >>

?

1) leaving feedback right away or...........

2) promptly packaging and shipping the item.

mr1874: "Most people are, and will be, reasonable. That's my theory. "

your "theory" seems to be tainted to the buyer side of the equation in my opinion

fishcooker · April 11, 2005 12:34AM

Couldn't care less about my Ebay feedback.

mr1931S · April 11, 2005 12:36AM

mr1874: If the answer is "yes," give the guy positive feedback for cryin' out loud. Remember, what goes around comes around.

Camaro: "Sounds a lot like the typical threat from a buyer. You've proved part of my point for me."

Reasonable starts going around, reasonable keeps coming around. Threats start going around, threats will likely come around. Many buyers will perceive failure of seller to leave prompt positive feedback after paying as not reasonable. As a seller, I will be proactive about keeping "reasonableness" in the forefront as the transaction moves towards completion. What better way for a seller to start this process of "let's be reasonable" than leaving prompt positive feedback for a prompt-paying buyer? It's an appeal to the buyer's sense of "reaonableness." And it's public, for all to see.

ss350camaro · April 11, 2005 12:43AM

<< mr1874: If the answer is "yes," give the guy positive feedback for cryin' out loud. Remember, what goes around comes around.

Camaro: "Sounds a lot like the typical threat from a buyer. You've proved part of my point for me."

Reasonable starts going around, reasonable keeps coming around. Threats start going around, threats will likely come around. Many buyers will perceive failure of seller to leave prompt positive feedback after paying as not reasonable. As a seller, I will be proactive about keeping "reasonableness" in the forefront as the transaction moves towards completion. What better way for a seller to start this process of "let's be reasonable" than leaving prompt positive feedback for a prompt-paying buyer? It's an appeal to the buyer's sense of "reaonableness." And it's public, for all to see.

>>

Sounds like you've yet to be on the receiving end of an unreasonable buyer

mr1874: And it's public, for all to see.

yes, so is an unwarranted negative feedback from a buyer who uses feedback as a tool to demand something

skate4357 · April 11, 2005 12:51AM

Great Feedback. I want to answer the following:

1) leaving feedback right away or...........

2) promptly packaging and shipping the item.

BOTH IS VERY IMPORTANT,

ziggy29 · April 11, 2005 12:57AM

<< Great Feedback. I want to answer the following:

1) leaving feedback right away or...........

2) promptly packaging and shipping the item. >>

When I receive payment, I e-mail the buyer ASAP and tell them, essentially, the following:

* Thanks for the prompt payment;
* This will be shipped on or before (date) [depending on how they paid, for PayPal generally the next business day];
* I will advise you as soon as I ship the coin and give you a delivery confirmation number;
* Please let me know when you receive the coin -- if you are satisfied with the transaction, I will promptly issue feedback (if I haven't done so already); if something's not right please contact me to work it out

And then -- follow up on all of these items. Seems like that's enough to "keep the transaction going." And note that I don't say "I will leave feedback after you leave yours." I merely ask for confirmation that the coin was received and that the buyer is satisfied. And even if the buyer never responds, if I can see the coin was delivered, I'll leave feedback within a week of shipping -- even if I never hear from them again and even if they never leave feedback.

Seems like a reasonable compromise between buyer's and seller's concerns to me.

ss350camaro · April 11, 2005 1:05AM

<< 

<< Great Feedback. I want to answer the following:

1) leaving feedback right away or...........

2) promptly packaging and shipping the item. >>

When I receive payment, I e-mail the buyer ASAP and tell them, essentially, the following:

* Thanks for the prompt payment;
* This will be shipped on or before (date) [depending on how they paid, for PayPal generally the next business day];
* I will advise you as soon as I ship the coin and give you a delivery confirmation number;
* Please let me know when you receive the coin -- if you are satisfied with the transaction, I will promptly issue feedback (if I haven't done so already); if something's not right please contact me to work it out

And then -- follow up on all of these items. Seems like that's enough to "keep the transaction going." And note that I don't say "I will leave feedback after you leave yours." I merely ask for confirmation that the coin was received and that the buyer is satisfied. And even if the buyer never responds, if I can see the coin was delivered, I'll leave feedback within a week of shipping -- even if I never hear from them again and even if they never leave feedback.

Seems like a reasonable compromise between buyer's and seller's concerns to me. >>

<< Seems like a reasonable compromise between buyer's and seller's concerns to me. >>

Agreed

mr1931S · April 11, 2005 1:07AM

mr1874: And it's public, for all to see.

Camaro: yes, so is an unwarranted negative feedback from a buyer who uses feedback as a tool to demand something.

I can make a reasonable reply to "unwarranted negative feedback" or I can be silent. People, in general, are very perceptive, able to "read between the lines," if you will. Jackasses don't read and bray when they speak.

ksteelheader · April 11, 2005 2:09AM

Yo you buyers that want instant feedback: Please PM me your ebay ID so that I can block you from bidding.

Life is short enough, to have to put up with whining little people!

orie · April 11, 2005 2:17AM

A seller who leaves feedback when paid ships faster and has better coins. This is true 90% of the time. They have no reason to be afraid.

Iampoorman2 · April 11, 2005 2:25AM

Don't really care one way or the other. As long as I've gotten my money or my goods, they can keep the feedback.

66Tbird · April 11, 2005 3:06AM

<< Yo you buyers that want instant feedback: Please PM me your ebay ID so that I can block you from bidding. >>

BINGO!!

flaminio · April 11, 2005 3:22AM

As a buyer, I leave positive feedback as soon as I receive the item successfully. I don't sit around and worry about what the seller is going to do.

When I sell on eBay, I generally leave feedback after I ship, or a few days later. If a buyer leaves me feedback first, I make sure to jump in and give them feedback back. But usually the next time I find myself on the feedback form, I just leave all the feedback that I've shipped items for.

That's just me, and others may do differently. Honestly, I don't really care.

aficionado · April 11, 2005 9:02AM

The standard process is:

Buyer leaves positive feedback upon receiving item. (if happy with it)

Seller leaves feedback after seeing buyer’s feedback assuring Seller everything is OK.

If buyer has a problem with the item they should email the Seller for resolution.

There are already too many emails flying back and forth. Especially if you have 5 or 10 items out there, it can get tough to keep track of all the emails and everything.

So don't send an email saying you got the item, just leave the feedback. When the Seller sees the feedback, he can file that one as completed.

coppercoins · April 11, 2005 12:09PM

I don't care about feedback left, and I don't usually leave feedback unless it is asked for. That whole system is a waste of time. Unless someone murders someone else's dog, everybody gives/gets positive feedback, so it's worthless.

mozin · April 11, 2005 1:44PM

<< I don't care about feedback left, and I don't usually leave feedback unless it is asked for. That whole system is a waste of time. Unless someone murders someone else's dog, everybody gives/gets positive feedback, so it's worthless. >>

I agree positive feedback is meaningless.

MadMonk · April 11, 2005 9:22PM

How do you feel about Sellers on Ebay holding your feedbacks hostage?

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