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A few thoughts, comments and questions on the occasional herd mentality here.....

coinguy1coinguy1 Posts: 13,484 ✭✭✭

From time to time, I notice with keen interest, that certain threads start out in a certain direction, gather momentum and speed along like a freight train (without any breaks).

The two most common examples that come to mind are 1) where someone posts images of a coin and asks for opinions, or 2) when a forum member complains about so and so or such and such. Once a few opinions have been given, others often join in, echoing similar views, and no one takes the other side. Sometimes the initial opinions are informed and "correct" but other times, not.

Other times, however, a subsequent poster eventually speaks up, presents a different viewpoint and other posters quickly support the new/different idea.

Understandably, some are afraid to speak up and go against the grain, whether due to lack of knowledge or confidence, fear of upsetting the apple cart or other reasons.

This is not meant as a put down of those who agree with previous posters in threads (they are often correct in doing so) but it's something I notice and find quite interesting. And, I'm wondering if others have had similar (or different ) observations?

What factors do you think cause threads to move along in one direction only and what causes them to turn in the other direction, either abruptly or slowly?
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    tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,606 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What factors do you think cause threads to move along in one direction only and what causes them to turn in the other direction, either abruptly or slowly?

    Fractile theory.... patterns out of randomness.
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    nwcsnwcs Posts: 13,386 ✭✭✭
    I think some of the threads that have been revisited ad nauseum are the most vulnerable.

    But what I have seen that is also neither good nor bad but interesting is that over the nearly 3 years I've been on this board I've seen a number of people abandon what interested them in coins because others said (rightly or wrongly) that their interests are stupid. I've also seen cases where people have changed their collecting in order to be "approved" by the forum.

    I see that most often in the whole tiresome modern vs. classics debate. As someone else said, who are we to tell others how to spend their money? Surely we can have our opinions (and share them in a civil manner) but in the end it isn't our money and not our business how others choose to spend it.

    OK, nuff said for me now. image
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    JulianJulian Posts: 3,370 ✭✭✭
    Confidence in the poster's opinion would be my guess why people do not add in.

    If there has been substantial agreement, I do not normally post.

    If I see an error, I most always post.

    If I see incorrect conclusions, I would also post.

    It depends on how much time that you can devote to an issue, as well.

    Interesting topic.

    How come no one else thinks so??
    PNG member, numismatic dealer since 1965. Operates a retail store, also has exhibited at over 1000 shows.
    I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.

    eBaystore
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    Coinguy,
    The biggest problem I see here (and I know there will be people who will say "give examples" & "what threads are you speaking about") is people who gang up on either new or infrequent poster because they thing there is a scam of some sort. There really seems to be a pile on mentality when it comes to those situations. One poster will question the intentions of the original poster, next thing you know numerous people follow suit. I think it pushes people away, many of whom did nothing wrong. JMHO
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    ArtistArtist Posts: 2,038 ✭✭✭
    I totally disagree with all of you.

    I mean wait, I agree...

    What ever happened to Goldcoinlover?
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    TheRavenTheRaven Posts: 4,167 ✭✭✭✭
    Cause it is easier to follow then it is to lead that is why.

    image
    Collection under construction: VG Barber Quarters & Halves
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    I think that it's normal for people to wish to be approved of by their peers. It starts in childhood, and continues - most especially - into the teen years with "peer pressure" - and then into adulthood by 'going with the crowd" - keeping up with the Joneses - fitting into your employment, etc. I also think that herd mentality not only exists on this forum, but every place in real life.

    Being one that often goes against the grain, I can tell you that sometimes it's not really an easy thing to deal with. If I am dead-on sure that I am right, I will stand up for my beliefs and will not be a sheep - should someone ask or pursue the subject.

    Sometimes, however, I have found that it is just much simpler to appear to go with crowd, and continue as I wish. I do the same thing with my DH when it is simpler to agree with him, than to argue about something. It also could be caused by laziness in not wanting to put forth effort to argue. Maybe I'm just busy and don't have time to argue. There will always be the sheep crowd.


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    mgoodm3mgoodm3 Posts: 17,497 ✭✭✭
    STRING 'EM UP!image
    coinimaging.com/my photography articles Check out the new macro lens testing section
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    michaelmichael Posts: 9,524 ✭✭✭

    What factors do you think cause threads to move along in one direction only and what causes them to turn in the other direction, either abruptly or slowly?






    human nature
    ego
    anamoyous
    and the safety of being at home far away in cyber space

    and self hate/loathing/self esteem issues

    and on a lessor note but still true

    substance abuse/mental illness
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    keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    hey Mark

    it's very simple, many are afraid to rock the boat and state how they really feel for any number of reasons. PM's are often sent expressing true feelings, but the condemnation inherant with posting them within a thread can be too daunting for most.

    personally, i don't really care if the truth upsets members, so long as it's not mean spirited. as a friend of mine says, honesty without compassion is cruely----no need to be cruel. if the actual shenanigans that go on here could be known by all, the place would suffer the loss of some members, a couple who are held in high esteem i might add.

    al h.image
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    cladkingcladking Posts: 29,957 ✭✭✭✭✭
    deleted
    tempus fugit extra philosophiam.
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    CalGoldCalGold Posts: 2,608 ✭✭
    Mark,

    Not to take a contrarian view, I have seen threads die immediately when someone posts a contrarian but correct view.

    CG
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    Steve27Steve27 Posts: 13,277 ✭✭✭
    "This is not meant as a put down of those who agree with previous posters in threads (they are often correct in doing so) but it's something I notice and find quite interesting. And, I'm wondering if others have had similar (or different ) observations?"

    Yes, I've seen it too, and I miss guys like DorkKarl who weren't afraid to voice their own opinion
    "It's far easier to fight for principles, than to live up to them." Adlai Stevenson
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    cladkingcladking Posts: 29,957 ✭✭✭✭✭
    deleted.
    tempus fugit extra philosophiam.
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    As one who has gone against the grain on more than a few occasions, i must say that after a while it gets tiresome trying to convince some of a different point of view.
    The "want" to post a reply with a differing opinion is still there, but the thought of the known ramifications and frustrations causes me to just move on to another thread most of the time.

    A long time member once told me that "the less i disagree, the smoother the road will be".

    I don't mind a rough road once in a while image


    edited to add: Now that i have responded to this thread watch it die. Seems to be a pattern to the threads i post to image

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    mhammermanmhammerman Posts: 3,769 ✭✭✭
    After the newness of being in the forum and posting wears off then the percieved landscape changes somewhat. Firstly, anyone with an opinion contrary than some of the gorillas that live here will be soundly chastised so this does not encourage new opinions. For sure you don't want to be even slightly off thread. In fact, it is better to keep your opinions to yourself. Secondly, many of the threads are simply rehashes of stuff that has been beaten beyond recognition. On the other hand, there are some exceptionally astute threads that occur from time to time and that makes all this worth cruising through. How many times to we have to argue "nt/at, modern crap/classics, OH MY GOLD UP 34 cents TODAY!!!, I got ripped off on an ebay counterfeit last night!!!"...most of it has been said more than once so why respond? On the other hand, varieties, questions about vams, coin photos, gold, interesting purchases (with photos), tokens, weird stuff is all well read and responded to. So, to answer the thread question...it is harder to pick off an individual in a herd. Not trying to draw sappers here, just responding.

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    << <i>From time to time, I notice with keen interest, that certain threads start out in a certain direction, gather momentum and speed along like a freight train (without any breaks).

    ...

    Other times, however, a subsequent poster eventually speaks up, presents a different viewpoint and other posters quickly support the new/different idea.
    ... >>



    Oh yeah?... I disagree. image

    (Ok now for the real answer. Hmmmm, I haven't noticed. )

    -g image
    I listen to your voice like it was music, [ y o u ' r e ] the song I want to know.

    image

    I'd give you the world, just because...

    Speak to me of loved ones, favorite places and things, loves lost and gained, tears shed for joy and sorrow, of when I see the sparkle in your eye ...
    and the blackness when the dream dies, of lovers, fools, adventurers and kings while I sip my wine and contemplate the Chi.
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    << <i>Cause it is easier to follow then it is to lead that is why. >>



    imageimage
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    LongacreLongacre Posts: 16,717 ✭✭✭
    Personally, I tend to offer opinions on things that I think I am qualified to give an opinion on. For example, I can't tell if something is AT or NT, so I tend to not comment on those threads. Other threads, however, I try to give an unbiased opinion. I read what others have writtten, but I try to form my own opinion.
    Always took candy from strangers
    Didn't wanna get me no trade
    Never want to be like papa
    Working for the boss every night and day
    --"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
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    MadMonkMadMonk Posts: 3,743


    << <i>What factors do you think cause threads to move along in one direction only and what causes them to turn in the other direction, either abruptly or slowly? >>



    Whatever the ring leaders say. image
    Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.
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    BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,623 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I assume the thread started yesterday about the 93-s PCGS au50 at DLRC being cleaned is the most recent example of herd mentality to which you refer.
    theknowitalltroll;
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    michaelmichael Posts: 9,524 ✭✭✭
    << What factors do you think cause threads to move along in one direction only and what causes them to turn in the other direction, either abruptly or slowly? >>



    Whatever the ring leaders say.


    AS PER THE ABOVE OH MY BUT I WILL NOT GO INTO DETAIL ON HERE AS EVERYONE ALREASY KNOWS WHO THEY ARE W
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    michaelmichael Posts: 9,524 ✭✭✭
    personally, i don't really care if the truth upsets members, so long as it's not mean spirited. as a friend of mine says, honesty without compassion is cruely----no need to be cruel. if the actual shenanigans that go on here could be known by all, the place would suffer the loss of some members, a couple who are held in high esteem i might add.

    al h.

    as per the above the best staTEMENT i have ever hread on these boards w
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    michaelmichael Posts: 9,524 ✭✭✭
    Mark,

    Not to take a contrarian view, I have seen threads die immediately when someone posts a contrarian but correct view.

    CG

    imageimage
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    michaelmichael Posts: 9,524 ✭✭✭
    w
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    IrishMikeIrishMike Posts: 7,737 ✭✭✭
    One of the interesting topics on here is how quick some are to post their complaints about a company or individual with an outstanding track record in this business. Even in the face of statistical proof, comments from others praising the aforementioned company or individual, the original poster continues to drive home his/her point. It either demonstrates a lack of understanding of the business world, an axe to grind or an unhappy childhood. image

    Being perfect seems to be the only way to avoid such complaints. I have no clue why others expect more from companies/others than they do from themselves. I think a public forum is an inappropriate venue for the so called herds to gather, reminds me of the lemming story, but that's for another day.
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    relayerrelayer Posts: 10,570

    I don't like your post. Let's get him image
    image
    My posts viewed image times
    since 8/1/6
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    A lot of it probably has to do with some peoples desire to be considered one of the "in" crowd so they figure if they make posts with the same view that they will somehow be accepted by the "in" crowd. It is really kinda of funny sometimes when you see the same view posted over and over by some people even though it is obvious that the poster has little knowledge of the topic. As has been shown here many times there are a lot of people with thin skin so they are afraid to make a post that does not conform to the thinking of the "in" crowd.
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    tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,606 ✭✭✭✭✭
    mooooooo!

    +1
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    BigEBigE Posts: 6,949 ✭✭✭
    Herds mostly move when they are looking for water or foodimage------------BigE
    I'm glad I am a Tree
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    FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,428 ✭✭✭✭✭
    and some herds just vanish when hunted with vigor.

    image
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    LucyBopLucyBop Posts: 14,001 ✭✭✭


    << <i>A lot of it probably has to do with some peoples desire to be considered one of the "in" crowd so they figure if they make posts with the same view that they will somehow be accepted by the "in" crowd. It is really kinda of funny sometimes when you see the same view posted over and over by some people even though it is obvious that the poster has little knowledge of the topic. As has been shown here many times there are a lot of people with thin skin so they are afraid to make a post that does not conform to the thinking of the "in" crowd. >>




    Who is this 'In Crowd' exactly......?

    I see this mentioned more then once.....

    I personaly don't see a 'in crowd' or cliques.....

    People with similiar interests tend to wind up on the same threads....
    imageBe Bop A Lula!!
    "Senorita HepKitty"
    "I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
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    clw54clw54 Posts: 3,815 ✭✭✭
    Herd mentality is why I post a grade guess in guess-the-grade threads BEFORE reading the other guesses. It's difficult not to be influenced by what is written before.
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    "After the newness of being in the forum and posting wears off then the percieved landscape changes somewhat. Firstly, anyone with an opinion contrary than some of the gorillas that live here will be soundly chastised so this does not encourage new opinions. For sure you don't want to be even slightly off thread. In fact, it is better to keep your opinions to yourself. Secondly, many of the threads are simply rehashes of stuff that has been beaten beyond recognition. On the other hand, there are some exceptionally astute threads that occur from time to time and that makes all this worth cruising through. How many times to we have to argue "nt/at, modern crap/classics, OH MY GOLD UP 34 cents TODAY!!!, I got ripped off on an ebay counterfeit last night!!!"...most of it has been said more than once so why respond? On the other hand, varieties, questions about vams, coin photos, gold, interesting purchases (with photos), tokens, weird stuff is all well read and responded to. So, to answer the thread question...it is harder to pick off an individual in a herd. Not trying to draw sappers here, just responding."

    What mhammerman said.

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    MyqqyMyqqy Posts: 9,777
    I think everyone wants to be like Russ....image
    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable !
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    RYKRYK Posts: 35,800 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think everyone wants to be like Russ....

    I know I do.

    Since Russ taught me the secret handshake, I am also in the "in crowd".
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    JRoccoJRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭
    In life there are followers, and there are leaders. There are some that ooh and ahh just to be accepted, but they are easily seen and irrelevant. If you start a thread and get ONE worthwhile opinion or an insight by someone who knows more than you, than you can't ask for more---this in turn is much better than getting 20 responses just stroking your ego about how wonderful you are. When my non-ending inquiries are answered by some of the experts here (like Mark, Keets, cladking, Chuck, Russ, Lucy, Eric, Bill, Mike etc etc etc ((to name only a few-there are many many more)) - I am thrilled and extremely thankful.
    Hey Mark- its funny how even this thread wound its way in this direction. And RYK- Russ taught me a secret handshake also-but he had this buzzer in his palm.....image --- I bet I am in the "super secret 'in crowd' "....yeah that must be itimage
    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
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    A blatant accusation of any sort can often turn a thread abruptly
    into a different direction, and give it renewed vigor as well! image

    Ken
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    dorancoinsdorancoins Posts: 2,095 ✭✭✭


    << <i>From time to time, I notice with keen interest, that certain threads start out in a certain direction, gather momentum and speed along like a freight train (without any breaks). The two most common examples that come to mind are 1) where someone posts images of a coin and asks for opinions, or 2) when a forum member complains about so and so or such and such. Once a few opinions have been given, others often join in, echoing similar views, and no one takes the other side. Sometimes the initial opinions are informed and "correct" but other times, not. Other times, however, a subsequent poster eventually speaks up, presents a different viewpoint and other posters quickly support the new/different idea. Understandably, some are afraid to speak up and go against the grain, whether due to lack of knowledge or confidence, fear of upsetting the apple cart or other reasons. This is not meant as a put down of those who agree with previous posters in threads (they are often correct in doing so) but it's something I notice and find quite interesting. And, I'm wondering if others have had similar (or different ) observations? What factors do you think cause threads to move along in one direction only and what causes them to turn in the other direction, either abruptly or slowly? >>



    What gets my attention is that there are people who may have a question or questions about our hobby that not everyone is so keen on. Some of the poster on this forum will, at some point, "grab someone's goat!" I feel that the forum has given those who inquire about our hobby a wealth of knowledge, but let us not forget that there are a lot of people who visit this forum on a daily basis that will judge it on the behavior and actions of everyone.
    DORAN COINS - On Facebook, Instagram, X (formerly Twitter), & www.dorancoins.net - UPCOMING SHOWS (tentative dates)- 2/26/2026 - Joliet, IL
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    BearBear Posts: 18,953 ✭✭✭
    It takes strength of character and a strong self image to take a contrary opinion.

    The fear of taking a position and standing all alone, strike many with fear. Remember, You can never lose

    true friends if one speaks from the heart and one must not always be in the majority to be

    in the right. Sometime a single voice, can thunder louder, then the cries of a crowd or a mob.

    That being said, it may take a newbie a while to get known on the Forum and fully accepted,

    before one goes loudly attacking and acting in an aggressive manner. Also it is never helpful to become

    defensive when subject to disquieting opinions. It is the slow, steady, consistancy of word and deed that

    indeed places a person in the inner circle. Even then, you are not always spared" the slings and arrows of

    outragious fortune." Always be of good cheer, of forgiving nature and slow to anger.

    There once was a place called
    Camelotimage
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    ccexccex Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>A lot of it probably has to do with some peoples desire to be considered one of the "in" crowd so they figure if they make posts with the same view that they will somehow be accepted by the "in" crowd. It is really kinda of funny sometimes when you see the same view posted over and over by some people even though it is obvious that the poster has little knowledge of the topic. As has been shown here many times there are a lot of people with thin skin so they are afraid to make a post that does not conform to the thinking of the "in" crowd. >>




    Who is this 'In Crowd' exactly......?

    I see this mentioned more then once.....

    I personaly don't see a 'in crowd' or cliques.....

    People with similiar interests tend to wind up on the same threads.... >>



    LucyBop makes a good point, whether she is considered one of the "in crowd" or not. Personally, I have avoided Frankies for 17 years, and before that, enjoyed being in the "out crowd" in high school and college. I started collecting circulated Barber Dimes because they were unfashionable at that time.

    I haven't changed my sig line since I started posting here, and believe that my silence in most threads i read is the best alternative.

    When I post it is for one of the following reasons:
    a) I agree with someone who chose words better than I could have
    b) I have experience in the matter relevant to the thread title
    c) I feel previous posters have overlooked something obvious to me
    d) I want to share something related to U.S. coins without a clear answer (in which case I usually start a
    new thread)

    I don't see a dangerous herd mentality here, although I cringe whenever an innocent newbie is scared off by acerbic posts. Most newbies receive more welcomes than insults. This forum does not have a dress code requiring flame retardent suits as thick as those worn by posters on some of the other coin groups I have visited. There's less perversity and more diversity here than most places where coin collectors discuss online.
    "Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity" - Hanlon's Razor
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    BearBear Posts: 18,953 ✭✭✭
    Is this the year of the Lemmings mass suicide ?
    There once was a place called
    Camelotimage
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    orevilleoreville Posts: 12,292 ✭✭✭✭✭
    coinguy1: In some cases I agree with you.

    Examples:

    (1) A young collector buys an inexpensive coin but overpays or the coin is slightly but not too badly overgraded. He/she is proud of his purchase and displays it here. We all seem to get on the bandwagon to give positive encouragement to the young collector. "We" seem to recognize that the young collector thrives on encouragement. Only in pm's will some real comments be made to the young collector.

    (2) Grading of coins with pictures: agreement might be posted with a potential snowball effect but I believe in adding different reasoning if at all possible. I do see that from time to time.

    (3) A strong opinion that might be controversial, quite often I will not want to argue as I don't have the energy. That reminds me of the esteemed Ed Norton of the Honeymooners saying to his brother Stanley in 1955 when Stanley said "Well I don't want to argue with Agnes (his bride to be)" Ed Norton then said, "Well if you don't want to argue then what are you getting married for?"

    I have also noted that many posts I make with a definite opinion seems to end many threads. That is something I have noticed more and more often.
    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
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    Steve27Steve27 Posts: 13,277 ✭✭✭
    " mooooooo!" no TDN baah would be better since we're dealing with sheep here.
    "It's far easier to fight for principles, than to live up to them." Adlai Stevenson
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    BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,623 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Not sure but I think the tendency is to assume either rightly or wrongly that most experienced posters here are knowledgeable or have some expertise in what they post SO if Max Morgan says its a 64 then it must be a 64. I often wonder how smoe make the comments they do from smoe of the pictures that are presented.
    theknowitalltroll;
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    orevilleoreville Posts: 12,292 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Who is Smoe? We do not have anyone named Smoe listed here.
    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
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    BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,623 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Warn't he wunna da three stooges? image
    theknowitalltroll;
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    The in-crowd!......The in-crowd!.....The in-crowd!
    The in-crowd!......The in-crowd!.....The in-crowd!
    The in-crowd!......The in-crowd!.....The in-crowd!



    image


    You all better believe that I'm not a member of the in-crowd. I say what I have to say right out in the open and don't have to hide behind PM's! I piss people off! I really don't care. It's a tough world and the strong survive.

    I don't have to fluff my opinions with a "JMHO!" Just my honest opinion is what I always give, not just sometimes. You also have the people that fluff their opinion with a statement of "To be perfectly honest!" Uhmmm, are there times when you aren't??
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    I guess I see the wrong problem here.....If you provide an opinion that "shoot's down" someone elses idea, as long as it is not done in a mean spirited way, I don't see the problem. What is the problem, in my mind, is when someone with little or no experience makes an innocent post that is misconstrued. Or when one board member is mean spirited towards such a post, lurking members will often jump into the fray and heep more mean spirit onto the pile. I can't remeber the names of those involved but I'm most people know the threads I am referring to.
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    the next time I have enough energy to disagree and start getting attacked, I am going to post a link to this thread.

    Denise Crane.

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