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A few thoughts, comments and questions on the occasional herd mentality here.....
coinguy1
Posts: 13,484 ✭✭✭
From time to time, I notice with keen interest, that certain threads start out in a certain direction, gather momentum and speed along like a freight train (without any breaks).
The two most common examples that come to mind are 1) where someone posts images of a coin and asks for opinions, or 2) when a forum member complains about so and so or such and such. Once a few opinions have been given, others often join in, echoing similar views, and no one takes the other side. Sometimes the initial opinions are informed and "correct" but other times, not.
Other times, however, a subsequent poster eventually speaks up, presents a different viewpoint and other posters quickly support the new/different idea.
Understandably, some are afraid to speak up and go against the grain, whether due to lack of knowledge or confidence, fear of upsetting the apple cart or other reasons.
This is not meant as a put down of those who agree with previous posters in threads (they are often correct in doing so) but it's something I notice and find quite interesting. And, I'm wondering if others have had similar (or different ) observations?
What factors do you think cause threads to move along in one direction only and what causes them to turn in the other direction, either abruptly or slowly?
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Fractile theory.... patterns out of randomness.
But what I have seen that is also neither good nor bad but interesting is that over the nearly 3 years I've been on this board I've seen a number of people abandon what interested them in coins because others said (rightly or wrongly) that their interests are stupid. I've also seen cases where people have changed their collecting in order to be "approved" by the forum.
I see that most often in the whole tiresome modern vs. classics debate. As someone else said, who are we to tell others how to spend their money? Surely we can have our opinions (and share them in a civil manner) but in the end it isn't our money and not our business how others choose to spend it.
OK, nuff said for me now.
If there has been substantial agreement, I do not normally post.
If I see an error, I most always post.
If I see incorrect conclusions, I would also post.
It depends on how much time that you can devote to an issue, as well.
Interesting topic.
How come no one else thinks so??
I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.
eBaystore
The biggest problem I see here (and I know there will be people who will say "give examples" & "what threads are you speaking about") is people who gang up on either new or infrequent poster because they thing there is a scam of some sort. There really seems to be a pile on mentality when it comes to those situations. One poster will question the intentions of the original poster, next thing you know numerous people follow suit. I think it pushes people away, many of whom did nothing wrong. JMHO
I mean wait, I agree...
What ever happened to Goldcoinlover?
>>>My Collection
Being one that often goes against the grain, I can tell you that sometimes it's not really an easy thing to deal with. If I am dead-on sure that I am right, I will stand up for my beliefs and will not be a sheep - should someone ask or pursue the subject.
Sometimes, however, I have found that it is just much simpler to appear to go with crowd, and continue as I wish. I do the same thing with my DH when it is simpler to agree with him, than to argue about something. It also could be caused by laziness in not wanting to put forth effort to argue. Maybe I'm just busy and don't have time to argue. There will always be the sheep crowd.
What factors do you think cause threads to move along in one direction only and what causes them to turn in the other direction, either abruptly or slowly?
human nature
ego
anamoyous
and the safety of being at home far away in cyber space
and self hate/loathing/self esteem issues
and on a lessor note but still true
substance abuse/mental illness
it's very simple, many are afraid to rock the boat and state how they really feel for any number of reasons. PM's are often sent expressing true feelings, but the condemnation inherant with posting them within a thread can be too daunting for most.
personally, i don't really care if the truth upsets members, so long as it's not mean spirited. as a friend of mine says, honesty without compassion is cruely----no need to be cruel. if the actual shenanigans that go on here could be known by all, the place would suffer the loss of some members, a couple who are held in high esteem i might add.
al h.
Not to take a contrarian view, I have seen threads die immediately when someone posts a contrarian but correct view.
CG
Yes, I've seen it too, and I miss guys like DorkKarl who weren't afraid to voice their own opinion
The "want" to post a reply with a differing opinion is still there, but the thought of the known ramifications and frustrations causes me to just move on to another thread most of the time.
A long time member once told me that "the less i disagree, the smoother the road will be".
I don't mind a rough road once in a while
edited to add: Now that i have responded to this thread watch it die. Seems to be a pattern to the threads i post to
<< <i>From time to time, I notice with keen interest, that certain threads start out in a certain direction, gather momentum and speed along like a freight train (without any breaks).
...
Other times, however, a subsequent poster eventually speaks up, presents a different viewpoint and other posters quickly support the new/different idea.
... >>
Oh yeah?... I disagree.
(Ok now for the real answer. Hmmmm, I haven't noticed. )
-g
I'd give you the world, just because...
Speak to me of loved ones, favorite places and things, loves lost and gained, tears shed for joy and sorrow, of when I see the sparkle in your eye ...
and the blackness when the dream dies, of lovers, fools, adventurers and kings while I sip my wine and contemplate the Chi.
<< <i>Cause it is easier to follow then it is to lead that is why. >>
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
<< <i>What factors do you think cause threads to move along in one direction only and what causes them to turn in the other direction, either abruptly or slowly? >>
Whatever the ring leaders say.
Whatever the ring leaders say.
AS PER THE ABOVE OH MY BUT I WILL NOT GO INTO DETAIL ON HERE AS EVERYONE ALREASY KNOWS WHO THEY ARE W
al h.
as per the above the best staTEMENT i have ever hread on these boards w
Not to take a contrarian view, I have seen threads die immediately when someone posts a contrarian but correct view.
CG
Being perfect seems to be the only way to avoid such complaints. I have no clue why others expect more from companies/others than they do from themselves. I think a public forum is an inappropriate venue for the so called herds to gather, reminds me of the lemming story, but that's for another day.
I don't like your post. Let's get him
My posts viewed
since 8/1/6
+1
<< <i>A lot of it probably has to do with some peoples desire to be considered one of the "in" crowd so they figure if they make posts with the same view that they will somehow be accepted by the "in" crowd. It is really kinda of funny sometimes when you see the same view posted over and over by some people even though it is obvious that the poster has little knowledge of the topic. As has been shown here many times there are a lot of people with thin skin so they are afraid to make a post that does not conform to the thinking of the "in" crowd. >>
Who is this 'In Crowd' exactly......?
I see this mentioned more then once.....
I personaly don't see a 'in crowd' or cliques.....
People with similiar interests tend to wind up on the same threads....
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
What mhammerman said.
I know I do.
Since Russ taught me the secret handshake, I am also in the "in crowd".
Hey Mark- its funny how even this thread wound its way in this direction. And RYK- Russ taught me a secret handshake also-but he had this buzzer in his palm.....
into a different direction, and give it renewed vigor as well!
Ken
<< <i>From time to time, I notice with keen interest, that certain threads start out in a certain direction, gather momentum and speed along like a freight train (without any breaks). The two most common examples that come to mind are 1) where someone posts images of a coin and asks for opinions, or 2) when a forum member complains about so and so or such and such. Once a few opinions have been given, others often join in, echoing similar views, and no one takes the other side. Sometimes the initial opinions are informed and "correct" but other times, not. Other times, however, a subsequent poster eventually speaks up, presents a different viewpoint and other posters quickly support the new/different idea. Understandably, some are afraid to speak up and go against the grain, whether due to lack of knowledge or confidence, fear of upsetting the apple cart or other reasons. This is not meant as a put down of those who agree with previous posters in threads (they are often correct in doing so) but it's something I notice and find quite interesting. And, I'm wondering if others have had similar (or different ) observations? What factors do you think cause threads to move along in one direction only and what causes them to turn in the other direction, either abruptly or slowly? >>
What gets my attention is that there are people who may have a question or questions about our hobby that not everyone is so keen on. Some of the poster on this forum will, at some point, "grab someone's goat!" I feel that the forum has given those who inquire about our hobby a wealth of knowledge, but let us not forget that there are a lot of people who visit this forum on a daily basis that will judge it on the behavior and actions of everyone.
The fear of taking a position and standing all alone, strike many with fear. Remember, You can never lose
true friends if one speaks from the heart and one must not always be in the majority to be
in the right. Sometime a single voice, can thunder louder, then the cries of a crowd or a mob.
That being said, it may take a newbie a while to get known on the Forum and fully accepted,
before one goes loudly attacking and acting in an aggressive manner. Also it is never helpful to become
defensive when subject to disquieting opinions. It is the slow, steady, consistancy of word and deed that
indeed places a person in the inner circle. Even then, you are not always spared" the slings and arrows of
outragious fortune." Always be of good cheer, of forgiving nature and slow to anger.
Camelot
<< <i>
<< <i>A lot of it probably has to do with some peoples desire to be considered one of the "in" crowd so they figure if they make posts with the same view that they will somehow be accepted by the "in" crowd. It is really kinda of funny sometimes when you see the same view posted over and over by some people even though it is obvious that the poster has little knowledge of the topic. As has been shown here many times there are a lot of people with thin skin so they are afraid to make a post that does not conform to the thinking of the "in" crowd. >>
Who is this 'In Crowd' exactly......?
I see this mentioned more then once.....
I personaly don't see a 'in crowd' or cliques.....
People with similiar interests tend to wind up on the same threads.... >>
LucyBop makes a good point, whether she is considered one of the "in crowd" or not. Personally, I have avoided Frankies for 17 years, and before that, enjoyed being in the "out crowd" in high school and college. I started collecting circulated Barber Dimes because they were unfashionable at that time.
I haven't changed my sig line since I started posting here, and believe that my silence in most threads i read is the best alternative.
When I post it is for one of the following reasons:
a) I agree with someone who chose words better than I could have
b) I have experience in the matter relevant to the thread title
c) I feel previous posters have overlooked something obvious to me
d) I want to share something related to U.S. coins without a clear answer (in which case I usually start a
new thread)
I don't see a dangerous herd mentality here, although I cringe whenever an innocent newbie is scared off by acerbic posts. Most newbies receive more welcomes than insults. This forum does not have a dress code requiring flame retardent suits as thick as those worn by posters on some of the other coin groups I have visited. There's less perversity and more diversity here than most places where coin collectors discuss online.
Camelot
Examples:
(1) A young collector buys an inexpensive coin but overpays or the coin is slightly but not too badly overgraded. He/she is proud of his purchase and displays it here. We all seem to get on the bandwagon to give positive encouragement to the young collector. "We" seem to recognize that the young collector thrives on encouragement. Only in pm's will some real comments be made to the young collector.
(2) Grading of coins with pictures: agreement might be posted with a potential snowball effect but I believe in adding different reasoning if at all possible. I do see that from time to time.
(3) A strong opinion that might be controversial, quite often I will not want to argue as I don't have the energy. That reminds me of the esteemed Ed Norton of the Honeymooners saying to his brother Stanley in 1955 when Stanley said "Well I don't want to argue with Agnes (his bride to be)" Ed Norton then said, "Well if you don't want to argue then what are you getting married for?"
I have also noted that many posts I make with a definite opinion seems to end many threads. That is something I have noticed more and more often.
The in-crowd!......The in-crowd!.....The in-crowd!
The in-crowd!......The in-crowd!.....The in-crowd!
You all better believe that I'm not a member of the in-crowd. I say what I have to say right out in the open and don't have to hide behind PM's! I piss people off! I really don't care. It's a tough world and the strong survive.
I don't have to fluff my opinions with a "JMHO!" Just my honest opinion is what I always give, not just sometimes. You also have the people that fluff their opinion with a statement of "To be perfectly honest!" Uhmmm, are there times when you aren't??
Denise Crane.