1869 $20 Liberty in MS-65- Sold for $218.5K at 2005 Heritage FUN. UPDATE!! Sold for $299K at 2008 He

oreville · February 23, 2005 8:14AM

A lovely coin indeed!

The PCGS Price Guide showed a value of $75,000 for this coin prior to the 2005 Heritage FUN sale.

Indeed, PCGS updated their price guide for this coin over the two year period to $150,000.

It is for sale again at FUN 2008 and it is already at $230,000. Another reminder that PCGS price adjustment to $150,000 was not enough?

It finally sold at $299.000.

ER · February 23, 2005 8:26AM

How often do these coins at this grade trade hands?

RYK · February 23, 2005 8:27AM

Maybe someone felt it is a 66?

Beautiful coin.

PhillyJoe · February 23, 2005 8:27AM

Someone with deep pockets thinks it's a 66? Wouldn't be the first time.

Really is a beautiful 130 year old coin.

joe

PhillyJoe · February 23, 2005 8:28AM

RYK and I must be twins seperated at birth.

RYK · February 23, 2005 8:30AM

Joe ended up in Philly and ryk in Pittsburgh.

oreville · February 23, 2005 9:02AM

ER: Jay Parrino sold this coin back around 1997 for a lot less money. I believe it was re-sold once after that. It does not come around very often.

That coin is a very special type II $20 Liberty indeed. The only type II in PCGS MS-65 dated in the 1860's. Only one of 3 (or 4) in MS-65 for the entire type II.

SethChandler · February 23, 2005 9:18AM

Oreville- You must be happy about Gem Type II's going for that much money.

CalGold · February 23, 2005 9:50AM

<< Maybe someone felt it is a 66? >>

Enlighten me here. Why isn't it a 66?

CG

sumdunce · February 23, 2005 10:53AM

Enlighten me here. Why isn't it a 66?

Because PCGS says its a 65!

oreville · February 23, 2005 10:58AM

Heritage's description of the coin.

---------This particular coin is identifiable by a minor nick right up against Liberty's chin and a long thin scratch up from the inside point of the second star. On the reverse we note absolutely nothing that will show up in a photo, as only the faintest signs of handling can be found with a 10X loupe. ----------

This coin is a 65. A good solid 65 in my opinion.

jdimmick · February 23, 2005 11:23AM

Thats a sweet looking $20. The Marks Oreville mentioned probably keeps this coin in a 65 holder. Could be the photo, but the luster to me doesnt have the pop like many 66 coins do either?

FatMan · February 23, 2005 11:26AM

Knowing what I know about Heritage's crappy scans, that is a magnificent coin. MS65 my azz.

oreville · February 23, 2005 11:39AM

Here is a nice PCGS MS-64 1876-S for comparison:

oreville · January 2, 2008 8:40AM

Update:

For Sale again at 2007 Heritage FUN show and is already at $230,000.

Goldbully · January 2, 2008 8:56AM

<< A lovely coin indeed!

A correction in order for the PCGS Price Guide?

Indeed, PCGS updated their price guide over the two year period to $150,000!!

It is for sale again at FUN 2007 and it is already at $230,000. Another reminder that PCGS price adjustment to $150,000 was not enough?

>>

SWEET...SWEET...SWEET.......

Sunshine Rare Coins · January 2, 2008 9:00AM

oreville - I wonder how much your 1875S in MS-67 is worth now?

Coxe · January 2, 2008 9:04AM

<< 

<< Maybe someone felt it is a 66? >>

Enlighten me here. Why isn't it a 66?

CG >>

DUH....because the tag says "65".

oreville · January 2, 2008 9:09AM

UltraHighRelief: Your question probably will take a separate thread to discuss since this is an 1860's decade type II $20 which is overall rarer than the 1870's type II in high mint state grades.

I am wondering how much this 1869 will go for given four factors aiding its price rise:

(1) off the market for two years, normally not considered "fresh" but in the hyper fast world of today, two years seems like an eternity.

(2) gold prices going like crazy.

(3) still unfooled with and still in the same holder.

(4) population count remained static.

oreville · January 13, 2008 1:06AM

At the 2008 Heritage Sale this same coin sold for $299,000. All of the bidders had fallen asleep on the floor by then.

BECOKA · January 13, 2008 1:21AM

If they fell asleep how come it sold for so much?

oreville · January 13, 2008 2:50AM

The winning bidder phoned in his bid or used his HA Live computer program to win the coin. The coin had been bid up previously via internet bidding prior to the live auction.

I admit I was half asleep on the floor as well by the time it sold. Very close to midnight.

mrearlygold · January 13, 2008 2:53AM

Great coin.

bidask · January 13, 2008 4:46AM

<< The winning bidder phoned in his bid or used his HA Live computer program to win the coin. The coin had been bid up previously via internet bidding prior to the live auction.

I admit I was half asleep on the floor as well by the time it sold. Very close to midnight. >>

Maybe they should do the gold first and the copper last next time.

GoldenEyeNumismatics · January 13, 2008 4:50AM

Wow! That coin has an amazing look.

fc · January 13, 2008 5:17AM

How often do these coins at this grade trade hands?

i am also curious of that question. if the coin is so great why is it that no one wishes
to keep it for more then a few years? :-|

time after time i see these high end coins being treated as an investment
more then an antique to be cherished. but alas, i think this market
is reaching its peak and coins at prices like these are becoming a
hot potatoe, so to speak.

oldcameoproofsguy · January 13, 2008 5:19AM

That is one beautiful coin alright!

If someone purchased a $300K coin because they thought it might upgrade... that's just nuts!

This coin looks like it is one knock out rarity and it doesn't matter what the PCG of S calls it.

tradedollarnut · January 13, 2008 5:19AM

The peak is just starting. There's gonna be smoe crazy prices before this thing is over.

oreville · January 13, 2008 3:23PM

Many think the $299,000 price is the sign of crazy prices.

keep in mind that in January 2005, this coin sold for $218,000.

Three years later at $299,000 represents an annual per annum increase of slightly over 11% per year.

Not the sign of craziness but the sign of steady and solid growth in the interest of this coin.

fc said:

<< i am also curious of that question. if the coin is so great why is it that no one wishes
to keep it for more then a few years? :-| >>

I think I know the answer. Most collectors when they near the completion of their sets, buy the most expensive coins of their sets as they wait until near the end of their "hunt." Once the top rarities are acquired for their sets, the collector (even investor) is now satisfied. They they are "ready to sell."

This explains some of the "hot potato" sydrome.

Dawg144 · January 13, 2008 3:35PM

Great coin! After this auction, PCGS is going to have to update a lot of prices...

mrearlygold · January 13, 2008 3:47PM

<< Many think the $299,000 price is the sign of crazy prices.

keep in mind that in January 2005, this coin sold for $218,000.

Three years later at $299,000 represents an annual per annum increase of slightly over 11% per year.

Not the sign of craziness but the sign of steady and solid growth in the interest of this coin.

fc said:

<< i am also curious of that question. if the coin is so great why is it that no one wishes
to keep it for more then a few years? :-| >>

I think I know the answer. Most collectors when they near the completion of their sets, buy the most expensive coins of their sets as they wait until near the end of their "hunt." Once the top rarities are acquired for their sets, the collector (even investor) is now satisfied. They they are "ready to sell."

This explains some of the "hot potato" sydrome. >>

Similar but without the completion of anything is that sometimes we /they get bored and just feel like buying something else.

cupronik · January 14, 2008 12:36AM

I love it when the "real McCoy" brings a fantastic sum in auction. This is further affirmation of funny (fiat)
money chasing one-of-a kind coins.

1869 $20 Liberty in MS-65- Sold for $218.5K at 2005 Heritage FUN. UPDATE!! Sold for $299K at 2008 He

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