September 11 coins a "fraud," Spitzer Seeks Injunction

Sequitur · October 13, 2004 2:29AM

Interesting. Article.

ALBANY, N.Y. (AP) -- New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer on Wednesday obtained a court order to temporarily suspend the sale of commemorative Sept. 11 coins heavily advertised as being minted from silver recovered from ground zero.

Spitzer said the sale of the silver dollars emblazoned with the World Trade Center towers on one side and the planned Freedom Tower on the flip side is a fraud and he's investigating the claim the silver came from the ruins of the twin towers.

"It is a shameless attempt to profit from a national tragedy," Spitzer said. "This product has been promoted with claims that are false, misleading or unsubstantiated."

Spitzer said the National Collector's Mint says the coins, engraved with "In God We Trust," are legally authorized silver dollars, when they aren't.

He said the coin advertised as nearly pure silver is only silver plated, produced by a Wyoming company called SoftSky.

The TV and print ads include one fashioned after a news story that reads: "Today, history is being made. For the first time ever, a legally authorized government issue silver dollar has been struck to commemorate the World Trade Center and the new Freedom Tower being erected in its place ... Most importantly, each coin has been created using .999 pure silver recovered from ground zero!"

The dollar pieces are priced at $39 each, but sold at $19.95 with a limit of five per customer.

A company spokesman didn't immediately respond to a request for comment. On Sept. 10, the U.S. Mint issued a notice on its Web site that the coin "is not a legally authorized government issued" product.

The temporary halt on sales is pending a civil suit filed by Spitzer in state Supreme Court. Spitzer seeks civil penalties, restitution to those who bought the coins, greater consumer disclosure and full disclosure that the coins aren't endorsed by the federal government.

The company sells a variety of novelty coins, including those with characters from the Harry Potter books and movies.

MICHAELDIXON · October 13, 2004 2:35AM

Today, I called to verify my Coin Show ad starts tomorrow in the local newspaper. The lady asked if any of the dealers would have the new World Trade Center Commemorative Coins for sale. I explained they weren't coins, but rather privately minted silver "rounds." She seemed to be irritated because she "had seem them on TV and they said coins." Many people are/have been duped with these.

JadeRareCoin · October 13, 2004 2:38AM

I hope Spitzer gets the injunction. Hang them losers by the nads and then sell pinata tickets.....

Shamika · October 13, 2004 2:39AM

I hope Spitzer nails them to the ground!

dbldie55 · October 13, 2004 2:42AM

He should have went after those hawking the eagles recovered too. "It is a shameless attempt to profit from a national tragedy," Spitzer said. certainly exists for those as well.

kranky · October 13, 2004 2:43AM

Sure the ads are misleading, but I bet they aren't false.
I believe the ad says "created using silver recovered from Ground Zero." I would think the thin layer of silver plating would qualify.

The coins are legal tender - in the Commonwealth of the Northern Marianas.

Don't misunderstand, I'm not in favor of profiting from 9/11 (no offense to our fellow board member who designed the coin), but I don't think the ads are false. Perhaps the weak area is calling them "silver dollars", but you could argue that the term is commonly applied to any coin of that size with a value of one dollar (i.e. Ikes).

Russ · October 13, 2004 2:44AM

Somebody should point Spitzer at eBay.

Russ, NCNE

khayse · October 13, 2004 2:52AM

I'm with Kranky here. I listened very carefully to the commercial. They say the coin <whatever> is completely covered in .999 silver on both sides (or something to that effect). And it is government issued, just not our
government.

It's disgusting but I doubt it's fraud.

-Khayse
ps the funny thing is my mother-in-law asked me if I wanted one. She seemed all
excited to help with my collection and talked about how much these would be worth some day.

K6AZ · October 13, 2004 2:57AM

I've seen those ads over and over again, and they are totally misleading. I'm glad someone had the guts to take them down.

SarasotaFrank · October 13, 2004 3:07AM

if an outift puts that much work into putting forth such a misleading effort, you can bet they checked and double checked every statement for "accuracy" and staying in teh limits of the law. They're wrong to do this, and they're a scummy outfit, but they probably will skate right by, becuase it's what lawyers do.

Kinda reminds me of this gem posted a few weeks ago:

"I don't need to lie about something like this. I cam slime around and come right up next to the truth and bump it and grind it, and trade places with exterior molecules of it without ever having the sun shine through that thin veneer of the truth that separates it from damnable lies.

Because.......I'm a lawyer."

earlwbollinger · October 13, 2004 3:24AM

Well, I beleive they can drag this out in court for as long as needed (months, years).
Then when sales aren't good enough, discontinue it.
Then they'll state they quit selling it due to public and legal pressures.

mrearlygold · October 13, 2004 3:43AM

It's amazing what these guys have gotten away with so far. They belong not only in jail, but turned loose in a room with some of the victims family members ( or "representatives"

)

Tom

mgoodm3 · October 13, 2004 3:47AM

Bikingnut · October 13, 2004 3:53AM

Excellent.

Sure the ads are misleading, but I bet they aren't false.

They prey on those who know nothing of coins. The misleading part is the statement that they are authorized by the gov't. It doesn't say what gov't.

SirAnthonyAC · October 13, 2004 4:30AM

Hi,

I’ve seen their commercials on late night TV… they make the coin vault look legitimate!

They are absolutely misleading and running a scam… you cannot say “minted from pure .999% silver” and have the coins be plated … and you cannot say they are government issue, when they are not. Hopefully these scammers will end up in Rikers Island and receive a visit from Bubba the butt-banging-gang-banging convict!

Just my 2 cents,
Anthony

BUSHWHACKED!!! Song MP3

Barry · October 13, 2004 4:36AM

I read somewhere the guy used to sell pornography. He was fined $600K and banned from selling porn.

I like Spitzer. He don't take no sh*t from nobody! (how's that for a triple negative?)

jhar · October 13, 2004 4:37AM

I saw that article on Yahoo just a few minutes ago. I'm glad someone is looking into this. I would like to know what silver they used to plate these "coins".

Link to the New York State's Attorney's office website.

Sequitur · October 13, 2004 4:41AM

I would like to know what silver they used to plate these "coins".

The claim is suspicious. The defense will be something akin to a bank vault located beneath the WTC that had silver rounds or ingots.

Edited: saving this before the National Collector's Mint wipes it clean:

"Washington, DC, Corp ID Center, Thursday 8:55 AM - Today, history is being made. For the first time ever, a legally authorized government issue silver dollar has been struck to commemorate the World Trade Center and the new Freedom Tower being erected in its place. It’s the minting of the 2004 “Freedom Tower” Silver Dollar from CNMI. Most importantly, each commemorative coin has been created using .999 Pure Silver recovered from Ground Zero!

"No, this is not a misprint. The silver used in each gleaming dollar coin is from Ground Zero! You see, when the Twin Towers fell on September 11, 2001, a bank vault full of .999 Pure Silver bars was buried under hundreds of tons of debris. After months of salvage work, many of the bars were found. Now, the same silver that was reclaimed from the destruction has been used to create the magnificent 2004 “Freedom Tower” Silver Dollar.

"The stunning design of the 2004 “Freedom Tower” Silver Dollar is a silver clad tribute to all who were lost on that fateful day and to the indomitable spirit of America to rebuild, to be stronger than ever and to never let terrorism succeed. The obverse celebrates our recovery and renewal with a glistening vision of the new “Freedom Tower,” dedicated on July 4, 2004, rising from the ashes of Ground Zero.

"On the reverse, the frosted New York skyline featuring the magnificent Twin Towers gleams against a mirror-like background, much as they gleamed in the sunlight that fateful September morning. Beneath them is our promise: “We Will Never Forget.” These silver dollars may well be among the most historically meaningful coins you will ever own.

ADVANCE DISCOUNT PRICE

"The issue’s price will be set at $49 per coin. However, during this limited special release, this .999 Pure Silver clad masterpiece can be yours for just $19.95. But you must act NOW to take advantage of this Special Advance Striking offer. THIS MAY BE THE ONLY OPPORTUNITY YOU WILL EVER HAVE TO ACQUIRE THIS HISTORIC MASTERPIECE.

"Each 2004 'Freedom Tower' Silver Dollar comes with a Certificate of Authenticity confirming it as a legally authorized government issue of CNMI, and verifying its .999 Pure Ground Zero Recovery Silver content. Distribution will take place in registration number order. So, the earliest reservations receive the lowest registration numbers. A deluxe velvet presentation box is available for an additional charge.

STRICT LIMIT

"When this small supply of silver recovered from Ground Zero is finished, this striking will end forever! So, there is a strict limit of five coins per customer. Orders will be filled on a first-come, first-served basis. Nonetheless, if the 2004 “Freedom Tower” Silver Dollar is not everything we promised, send back your order within 30 days by insured mail and we’ll promptly refund your purchase price. Your satisfaction is guaranteed.

"You may order one 2004 “Freedom Tower” Silver Dollar for $19.95 plus $3.50 shipping, handling and insurance, 3 for only $65 ppd., or 5 for only $99 ppd. Deluxe velvet presentation case is only $3.50 each ppd. So, don’t delay. Avoid disappointment and future regret. ACT NOW!

How many would you like to order today?

Prices include shipping & handling.

- 1 "Freedom Tower" Silver Dollar & Display Case $26.95
- 3 "Freedom Tower" Dollars & 3 Display Cases $75.50
- 5 "Freedom Tower" Dollars & 5 Display Cases $116.50

- 1 "Freedom Tower" Silver Dollar $23.45
- 3 "Freedom Tower" Silver Dollars $65.00
- 5 "Freedom Tower" Silver Dollars $99.00

dcarr · October 13, 2004 5:28AM

<< Sure the ads are misleading, but I bet they aren't false.
I believe the ad says "created using silver recovered from Ground Zero." I would think the thin layer of silver plating would qualify.

The coins are legal tender - in the Commonwealth of the Northern Marianas.

Don't misunderstand, I'm not in favor of profiting from 9/11 (no offense to our fellow board member who designed the coin), but I don't think the ads are false. Perhaps the weak area is calling them "silver dollars", but you could argue that the term is commonly applied to any coin of that size with a value of one dollar (i.e. Ikes). >>

No offense taken. As I've said before, National Collectors Mint contracts me to design coins. Im am happy to get the work since I get paid to do what I like to do. They tell me what they want on the coin and I design it. I agree with Kranky that I don't think there is anything technically illegal or untrue in ther marketing of this "coin". That said, I would have done some things differently. I'm not involved in the marketing of the coin in any way.

I also do not know any details on how the coin was minted, or who minted it. I only produced the renderings. But it would not be impossible for someone to purchase a few of the PCGS "WTC Recovery" Silver Eagles, melt them down, mix them with other silver, and use the mix to plate coins.

There is a strange irony to all of this. Now that the coin is temporarily unavailable (or maybe permanently banned) more people will want one. Like it or not, there is a collector market for WTC "relic" items (the PCGS WTC Recovery coins, for example, carry a large premium). All of this controversy adds more publicity to the issue.

dcarr · October 13, 2004 5:34AM

<< I read somewhere the guy used to sell pornography. He was fined $600K and banned from selling porn.

I like Spitzer. He don't take no sh*t from nobody! (how's that for a triple negative?) >>

I hadn't heard that. Which "guy" was it ? What kind of porn and why the fine ?
I hope it wasn't child porn. I'll have nothing to do with anyone who has ever engaged in exploiting children.

MacCrimmon · October 13, 2004 5:39AM

Good save!! They've already pulled the Ad.

K6AZ · October 13, 2004 5:42AM

With all due respect Daniel, these rounds are nothing but junk, being sold with the most misleading advertising I have ever seen. I would be ashamed to be connected to this outfit.

SarasotaFrank · October 13, 2004 5:48AM

not sure we should be faulting a very talented fellow for merely plying his trade. He designs extraordinary coins, and there is a limited market for such talent.

just my never very humble opinion

K6AZ · October 13, 2004 6:11AM

<< not sure we should be faulting a very talented fellow for merely plying his trade. He designs extraordinary coins, and there is a limited market for such talent.

just my never very humble opinion >>

Because when you roll around with pigs, the stench gets on you as well. I wouldn't sell my services to this outfit.

dorkkarl · October 13, 2004 6:23AM

remarkable how certain 1's of y'all come to such definitive conclusions & opinions as to the nature quality of the item in question - WITHOUT EVER HAVING ACTUALLY BOUGHT OR EVEN SEEN THE ITEM

blabbering your wacky armchair theories about what's fraud & what's not, while you sit on your fat rear-end in front of a computer monitor, tapping on your keyboard - THAT qualifies as "fraud" in my book. basically, you have no clue what the he11 your blabbering about!

get up off your e-z chair & actually INVESTIGATE what it is you want to discuss.

oh, & you know what? yes, i did actually buy something from the nat'l collectors mint, just w/in the last 2 weeks as a matter of fact. & guess what - the quality of the product was FANTASTIC, w/ lighning-quick delivery to boot.

K S

Barry · October 13, 2004 6:28AM

<< 

<< I read somewhere the guy used to sell pornography. He was fined $600K and banned from selling porn.

I like Spitzer. He don't take no sh*t from nobody! (how's that for a triple negative?) >>

I hadn't heard that. Which "guy" was it ? What kind of porn and why the fine ?
I hope it wasn't child porn. I'll have nothing to do with anyone who has ever engaged in exploiting children. >>

I did a google search and found this link. Now that I see it's in the NY Times, I recall that I read it in the paper that day.

Sequitur · October 13, 2004 6:35AM

blabbering your wacky armchair theories about what's fraud & what's not

Karl, given you see no problem with artificially toning a coin and then selling the coin as naturally toned with a 5,000% markup, I wonder who really holds "wacky" theories about what constitutes fraud.

get up off your e-z chair & actually INVESTIGATE what it is you want to discuss.

The attorney general already is investigating -- and has brought an enforcement action to stop the sale. I don't need to fly to the Marianas islands to know the coin is a scam. If you want to throw money away on National Collector's Mint garbage, go ahead. But your purchases won't turn the NCM's cow manure into mother-of-pearl.

mrearlygold · October 13, 2004 6:44AM

There is a strange irony to all of this. Now that the coin is temporarily unavailable (or maybe permanently banned) more people will want one. Like it or not, there is a collector market for WTC "relic" items (the PCGS WTC Recovery coins, for example, carry a large premium). All of this controversy adds more publicity to the issue. >>

No it won't. The medal is a piece of crap and a fraud and will be recognized as such. No amount of "publicity" is going to create any "desire" in anyone to buy this POC.

Tom

dcarr · October 13, 2004 6:55AM

<< 

<< 

<< I read somewhere the guy used to sell pornography. He was fined $600K and banned from selling porn.

I like Spitzer. He don't take no sh*t from nobody! (how's that for a triple negative?) >>

I hadn't heard that. Which "guy" was it ? What kind of porn and why the fine ?
I hope it wasn't child porn. I'll have nothing to do with anyone who has ever engaged in exploiting children. >>

I did a google search and found this link. Now that I see it's in the NY Times, I recall that I read it in the paper that day. >>

Hmm...
It doesn't give any details on the charges. Lots of outfits sell/market porn. I wonder why these particular charges were brought about.

SarasotaFrank · October 13, 2004 6:56AM

dcarr · October 13, 2004 7:04AM

<< There is a strange irony to all of this. Now that the coin is temporarily unavailable (or maybe permanently banned) more people will want one. Like it or not, there is a collector market for WTC "relic" items (the PCGS WTC Recovery coins, for example, carry a large premium). All of this controversy adds more publicity to the issue. >>

No it won't. The medal is a piece of crap and a fraud and will be recognized as such. No amount of "publicity" is going to create any "desire" in anyone to buy this POC.

Tom >>

I wasn't talking about sophisticated collectors. When I said "more people", I was referring to the uneducated public masses.
A certain segment of the population will always have a greater desire for something when they're not supposed to have it.

Watch eBay. I'll bet that prices realized for these pieces will go up. But I haven't been watching and I couldn't tell you if any have already sold on eBay or what they went for.

mrearlygold · October 13, 2004 7:11AM

<< 

<< There is a strange irony to all of this. Now that the coin is temporarily unavailable (or maybe permanently banned) more people will want one. Like it or not, there is a collector market for WTC "relic" items (the PCGS WTC Recovery coins, for example, carry a large premium). All of this controversy adds more publicity to the issue. >>

No it won't. The medal is a piece of crap and a fraud and will be recognized as such. No amount of "publicity" is going to create any "desire" in anyone to buy this POC.

Tom >>

I wasn't talking about sophisticated collectors. When I said "more people", I was referring to the uneducated public masses.
A certain segment of the population will always have a greater desire for something when they're not supposed to have it.

Watch eBay. I'll bet that prices realized for these pieces will go up. But I haven't been watching and I couldn't tell you if any have already sold on eBay or what they went for. >>

Wonderful so what you are suggesting is that people are going to get ripped off on this piece of crap for even more.

Tom

EVillageProwler · October 13, 2004 7:19AM

The coins are legal tender - in the Commonwealth of the Northern Marianas.

No, I don't think so. Unless the CNMI stopped being a member of the federal republic of the USA. In any case, the ad doesn't say that these so-called silver coins are legal tender; rather, they're simply government "authorized". I guess the govt of CNMI authorized them to use their name...

EVP

HoshiShoju · October 13, 2004 7:46AM

Okay so a couple of things.

1. you watch ebay like they said. eBay prices will skyrocket. The general Public will go stupid over this now. It's just like when i was a teenager. A guy put out an album with a song called cop-killer. it sold 125,000 (ballpark) copies. People got FURIOUS because of the song, and it went on to sell over 5 million albums before the CD was pulled and the song taken off. The Public doesn't care about fraud, The Public doesn't care about integrity. People care. there's a difference.

2. The coins are not legal tender anywhere, if you look closely, there is no denomination anywhere on the coin.

3. don't ridicule someone for using their talents to make something beautiful just because it was perverted by someone else. He made a stunning medal, they scammed people with it. He has nothing to do with the marketing, and minting of his design. Sure there is such a thing as guilt by association, but man this is taking it to the extreme.

dcarr · October 13, 2004 7:48AM

<< 
Wonderful so what you are suggesting is that people are going to get ripped off on this piece of crap for even more.
>>

If someone wants to pay $20 (or more) for a novelty item, then they have a right to do so, of course. But they shouldn't expect to recover their "investment" should they decide to sell the item. This applies to lots of items, not just this Freedom Tower coin.

Are people being ripped off when they pay $200 for a PCGS WTC recovery Silver Eagle, when they could buy a 2001 (raw) Silver Eagle for $8 ? I don't know, but there is obviously an established market for the PCGS WTC Recovery coins.

Personally, like you, I'd rather buy an early US gold coin than novelty items. But in my case, the novelty items are affordable while the "real thing" usually isn't. For about the same price, I'd rather buy a "generic" AU $10 Liberty than a PCGS WTC Recovery Silver Eagle.

INXS · October 13, 2004 8:07AM

Check out this bargain on the BIN.

LINK

dcarr · October 13, 2004 8:12AM

<< ... sold with the most misleading advertising I have ever seen. >>

You haven't been watching this season's political ads have you ?

PS:
Advertising is, in general, the art of misleading the masses.
But I can relate to your sentiments. My situation is this:

My largest customer (and only steady customer) is engaged in
marketing practices that are controversial. If they didn't contract
me to design coins, they'd contract someone else.

So what to do ?

A couple weeks ago I did request that they not use my
name in association with the Freedom Tower coin.

Beyond that, I don't know.

Hedger · October 13, 2004 8:29AM

It's about time Spitzer jumped on this one. The first time I saw the commercial for those silver plated pieces of crap it angered me. And to say that it was "government authorized" put me through the roof! These private mints need to be shut down for good.

dcarr · October 13, 2004 8:29AM

I just checked eBay.
There are several running now. Some are already bid well above the issue price of $20.

Here is one example:

Freedom Tower coin auction

dcarr · October 13, 2004 8:36AM

<< Okay so a couple of things.

1. you watch ebay like they said. eBay prices will skyrocket. The general Public will go stupid over this now. It's just like when i was a teenager. A guy put out an album with a song called cop-killer. it sold 125,000 (ballpark) copies. People got FURIOUS because of the song, and it went on to sell over 5 million albums before the CD was pulled and the song taken off. The Public doesn't care about fraud, The Public doesn't care about integrity. People care. there's a difference.

2. The coins are not legal tender anywhere, if you look closely, there is no denomination anywhere on the coin.

3. don't ridicule someone for using their talents to make something beautiful just because it was perverted by someone else. He made a stunning medal, they scammed people with it. He has nothing to do with the marketing, and minting of his design. Sure there is such a thing as guilt by association, but man this is taking it to the extreme. >>

I remember that "Cop Killer" CD. I would never buy one of those, even if I liked that style of music (which I don't). But yes, I think the contoversy (publicity) drove up the sales.

PS: The coin does actually say "One Dollar" on it. It also has a small CNMI logo on it. The CNMI logo was added during the minting process - it wasn't on the renderings that I made. The coin is a CNMI "government authorized" item. The legal tender status is somewhat cloudy, due to conflicting statements from CNMI and their agents.

Sequitur · October 13, 2004 8:41AM

If they didn't contract me to design coins, they'd contract someone else.

Generally speaking, that's no defense at all. Merely because someone on the planet is willing to perform an act for n dollars doesn't mean the act itself is proper. But I don't think we're critical of the artist designs in particular.

My largest customer (and only steady customer) is engaged in marketing practices that are controversial.

This is the crux of the thing. I'm no fan of the head-in-the-sand defense, however the real problem is the marketing of this POS, not your artistic renderings.

But a big piece of this fraud is NCM's following claim: "[E]ach commemorative coin has been created using .999 Pure Silver recovered from Ground Zero . . . . [T]his .999 Pure Silver clad masterpiece can be yours for just $19.95." This leads one to believe the coin is nearly pure silver, but as the Attorney General charges, the coin is only silver plated.

And I copied the NCM's online advertisement verbatim -- nowhere does the NCM disclose it's merely silver plating, so I think the charge has merit. I surely was misled into believing the coin was akin to a silver bullion coin, as that's what I thought the commercials said and that's the impression left by the online advertising. And the shameless use of 9/11 and the purported 9/11 silver and use of the phrase "authorized government issue silver dollar" are additional matters that, in my mind, add to the deception.

Of couse Karl sees no problem in advertising a coin as a ".999 pure silver" "government issue silver dollar" without disclosing the fact it's only silver plate, and further sees no problem with television commercials deftly concealing the fact the "government" is not the United States, but instead is an acronym, "CNMI."

You know what the real kicker is? The U.S. dollar is the currency of the Marianas. Plainly, the Marianas islands are not using these "authorized" dollars for currency. What a fraud.

wallstreetman · October 13, 2004 8:41AM

<< 
They are absolutely misleading and running a scam… you cannot say “minted from pure .999% silver” and have the coins be plated >>

Like many, you are confusing the word pure with solid!

Conder101 · October 13, 2004 10:55AM

<< [T]his .999 Pure Silver clad masterpiece can be yours for just $19.95." This leads one to believe the coin is nearly pure silver, but as the Attorney General charges, the coin is only silver plated. >>

This is because of a poor inferance on the part of the reader. ".999 pure silver CLAD masterpiece" tells you that it is NOT solid pure silver.

<< With all due respect Daniel, these rounds are nothing but junk, being sold with the most misleading advertising I have ever seen. I would be ashamed to be connected to this outfit. >>

Well they have a good lawyer who understands the numismatic viewpoint, and what they can and can't claim. David Ganz from the ANA.

Frankly th only thing I find wrong with their ad is the claim that the vaults were buried under the rubble. Actually they were in another building of the complex, not the two towers. Yes that building was later demolished because of damage but I don't believe it was from the actual collapse of the towers.

wayneherndon · October 13, 2004 11:53AM

Assuming they really are using silver from ground zero, I think Spitzer has them on the legal tender issue. Commonwealth of the Northern Marianas is a US possession (one of six territories proposed for 2010 quarters (along with DC, PR, Guam, the US Virgin Islands, and one other I can't immediately think of). Under the CNM's agreement with the US, they do not have the authority to issue legal tender which is reserved to the federal government. That would be like, say, Pennsylvania, issuing coins and calling them legal tender. Not permitted!

WH

Sequitur · October 13, 2004 12:27PM

This is because of a poor inferance on the part of the reader. ".999 pure silver CLAD masterpiece" tells you that it is NOT solid pure silver.

But that's not all they say. NCM also calls it a "silver dollar," and says the coin is "created using .999 Pure Silver." It's not a "poor inference" to believe the coin is actually made of .999 pure silver -- that's what the advertising actually says. Only the most careful reader would make the leap from a one-word disclosure, "clad," and deduce it's not a pure silver coin, but a silver plated coin.

More to the point, if this ad is not misleading, why doesn't the website disclose in plain fashion the following: "SILVER PLATED." The reason this isn't disclosed is because they're trying to dupe people, plain and simple.

Frankly th only thing I find wrong with their ad is the claim that the vaults were buried under the rubble. Actually they were in another building of the complex, not the two towers.

Even more indicia of fraud.

Under the CNM's agreement with the US, they do not have the authority to issue legal tender which is reserved to the federal government.

More still. Let's see if these facts come out in the investigation, and then have the naysayers still defend this fraud.

sliderider · October 13, 2004 12:38PM

<< He should have went after those hawking the eagles recovered too. "It is a shameless attempt to profit from a national tragedy," Spitzer said. certainly exists for those as well. >>

The thing I want to know about the WTC recovery coins is, was any attempt ever made to find the depositors of those coins?? They didn't just appear in the vault by magic. Someone put them there. If someone put them there, then someone owns them. If they were just taken without trying to find the owners, then they are stolen property.

TWQG · October 13, 2004 12:45PM

where's the dam popcorn!?!

mrearlygold · October 13, 2004 1:43PM

<< 

<< ... sold with the most misleading advertising I have ever seen. >>

You haven't been watching this season's political ads have you ?

PS:
Advertising is, in general, the art of misleading the masses.
But I can relate to your sentiments. My situation is this:

My largest customer (and only steady customer) is engaged in
marketing practices that are controversial. If they didn't contract
me to design coins, they'd contract someone else.

So what to do ?

A couple weeks ago I did request that they not use my
name in association with the Freedom Tower coin.

Beyond that, I don't know. >>

And all politicians are lowlifes, liars and thieves. All.

If you don't want your "name" used in conjunction with people whose mission is to scam people, then contract your "services" elsewhere. But since your claiming these are your only customers then that in and of itself is telling of what your talents are, or what the market is for this crap.

As the saying goes, "everyone has a price". You just sell out cheaply.

Hope you're enjoying the notoriety and continuing with your assertion that these scam medals will be worth more because of the publicity, then your "art" should be worth more too huh?

Tom

mrearlygold · October 13, 2004 1:47PM

You know what the real kicker is? The U.S. dollar is the currency of the Marianas. Plainly, the Marianas islands are not using these "authorized" dollars for currency. What a fraud. >>

Touche' counselor

Tom

SarasotaFrank · October 13, 2004 1:55PM

aye yi yi!

I just can't see slamming the designer on this. He designs coinage, and i seriously doubt the discussion was along the lines of:

"Listen we need a design for a WTC coin that we're going to scam the public with. We're going to use questionable language, mislead through advertising, and make it look like these coins were minted from teh very tombs of 9/11 victims" You with us?

"Hell yeah!"

Instead, more along the lines of "We are going to issue a WTC coin with the twin towers on one side and the new structures on the other side and we're going to sell it on tv." Can you work up a design for this?"

"Hell yeah"

there seems to be a lot of mis-directed anger over a guy trying to feed his family.

loanshark · October 13, 2004 1:55PM

It's about time!!!!!

I have employees and customers coming up to me all the time to ask if this is a good investment.

Loan Shark

September 11 coins a &quot;fraud,&quot; Spitzer Seeks Injunction

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September 11 coins a "fraud," Spitzer Seeks Injunction