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How much did that Jefferson Nickel go for!!!!!!!
cmanbb
Posts: 1,059 ✭✭✭✭✭
Anyone see Coinworld "Coinvalues" (10/4/04) issue. Page 14 titled "Registry" coins sizzle.
I could not believe someone would pay $32,200 for a 1960-D Jefferson PCGS MS64 Full Steps
OR $23,000 for a 1961-D Jefferson MS65 Full Steps. What are these people thinking................
I could not believe someone would pay $32,200 for a 1960-D Jefferson PCGS MS64 Full Steps
OR $23,000 for a 1961-D Jefferson MS65 Full Steps. What are these people thinking................
0
Comments
Russ, NCNE
and simply haven't been able to find the coin. Many of the later date coins are extremely tough in
higher grades and nickels are especially tough because of their tendency to be either well struck
or mark free when they are choice and gem.
Many of these coins are scarce or rare in even very choice condition.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
When I bought the 61(d) Jeff nickel in that auction, to be honest, the only thing I was thinking was how much higher than $30,000 I was going to go if pressed. I have a hard time putting my paddle down sometimes at auction
IMHO, this 61(d) nickel in MS65FS is one of the most important PCGS Mint State Jefferson nickels in a holder today, with the possible exception of the 1954(s) MS67FS.
Wondercoin
<< <i>That's some excellent money. I'm sure you should be able to find some of those in full steps. There must be lots of them laying around. You could make a bundle. >>
Cameron Kiefer
Now is the coin worth that much entirely due to the FS designation is another question entirely. Obviously the market currently deems this to be of utmost importance.
If you collect conditioinal rarities, especially moderns, you don't collect coins. You collect % points of a set rating. That emperor has no clothes.
Someone get me some more coffee, I'm on a roll!
--Severian the Lame
We havent had this arguement before...
Same old stuff, different day...
I think everyone knows where everyone stands on this issue and only time will tell who is right.
John
siliconvalleycoins.com
<< <i>It's a nickel, people. A modern. Made 20+ years after the design change and still being produced today. The mint made 229 MILLION of the 61-D. What is the significance? >>
The significance is that , owing solely to PCGS, one person can say "I have it and no one else does" The vast majority of the value of this coin is tied to the existance of PCGS and the registry. Without that, I'm sure there are a lot of "close calls" that could be claimed to be the same grade. These people need to buy PCGS stock. If the company goes, so will half the value of thier holdings.
<< <i>It's a nickel, people. A modern. Made 20+ years after the design change and still being produced today. The mint made 229 MILLION of the 61-D. What is the significance? What earth-shattering design or composition alteration happened in 1961? What scandal or secret happened behind the scenes at the Denver mint? What political tug-of-war caused the removal of a device or legend from the coins? Nothing. It's a N-I-C-K-E-L.
If you collect conditioinal rarities, especially moderns, you don't collect coins. You collect % points of a set rating. That emperor has no clothes.
Someone get me some more coffee, I'm on a roll! >>
This is no argument, it's a baseless rant. That some people don't like moderns or the prices
paid for them has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on their collectibility, desirability, or his-
torical importance. It would surprise some people that even a three year old coin can comprise
part of a collection. Let's not even tell them that time didn't really stop in 1964 and it's now a
few years after that.
Why people collect moderns vary as widely as the numbers of collectors but they have a lot going
for them.
-They are actually available for a little searching.
-It's a great area to make one's own discoveries since they are so poorly studied.
-There are not wide variations in surface quality which makes grading them much easier.
-The rarities are often available for a song and even the recognized rarities sell for far less than their older counterparts.
-Virtually no counterfeits, AT, or crackouts in most cases.
-There is still far less competition for coins.
-They are the only affordable US coin in nice condition.
-There are advantages in collecting in a growing area that are unrelated to increased profits.
-Not only can sets be formed from circulation but they can include many very desirable coins.
People should collect the coins they enjoy whether it's seated dollars or Jefferson nickels. There are
advantages and disadvantages to collecting any coin but writing off moderns and their collectors is
shortsighted and baseless.
Wondercoin
there are some logical points to your rant, certainly. there is also the myopic viewpoint that a coin needs to have certain criteria associated with it's production, either historical or simply from the standpoint of how many were struck, before it attains a collectible significance. we could take a look at the entire U.S. Numismatic spectrum and find examples of issues which are only C-O-I-N-S, for Christ's sake, yet have astronomical value. but you already know that. therein lies the beauty of a good rant!!!!!! they are most always logically illogical. let's face it, the general population finds it absurd that anyone in their right mind would actually pay money for a coin past it's face value, they just shake their collective heads about what we do.
now, back to my coffee!!
BTW, Mitch--------a tip-o-the-hat to you on that crummy N-I-C-K-E-L.
al h.
al h.
I know - that is the argument I hear every day when I ask why Mint State Liberty Nickels can't come close to the prices of Mint State Buffalos.
Thanks Keets
Wondercoin
<< <i>note to Cameron--------15 will get ya 20!! >>
In his case, the former would be seconds.
Russ, NCNE
I was born in 1961.....enough said!
where'd you go?? you sure ain't helpin' to dispel the notion that you might be a troll.
al h.
Let's not even tell them that time didn't really stop in 1964 ...
My calendar shows 1961 *before* 1964.
They are actually available for a little searching.
Indeed. That is why they command a $30,000 premium.
-It's a great area to make one's own discoveries since they are so poorly studied.
No doubt. The Jefferson nickel is one of the most prolifically produced coins in the history of the world. And it ain't changed but a lick in nearly 70 years. Remember we're not talking about a die variety or an error. We're talking about die state or perhaps a freakish hiccup in pressure. The first of 230 million is still just one of 230,000,000.
-There are not wide variations in surface quality which makes grading them much easier.
Read: they are intrinsically boring.
-The rarities are often available for a song and even the recognized rarities sell for far less than their older counterparts.
Interesting position, since we're talking about a $30,000 nickel.
-Virtually no counterfeits, AT, or crackouts in most cases
-There is still far less competition for coins.
-Not only can sets be formed from circulation but they can include many very desirable coins.
You win all of those points.
I actually find it hard to argue against conditonally rare moderns. The concept goes against the nature of something being "collectible". So many of the 1961-d nickels were made that virtually every single man, woman, and child in the country can own one. Yet someone has still paid 600,000 times face value for one. But hey. People collect beanie babies and precious moments too, right?
--Severian the Lame
<< <i>So many of the 1961-d nickels were made that virtually every single man, woman, and child in the country can own one. >>
Yep, and nearly that many are - and have been - searching for full step examples. Yet PCGS has graded only three, ever. With a payoff of $20,000 to $30,000 at stake you can bet your ass that everybody and his brother is trying to find them. Funny that there aren't more graded.
Russ, NCNE
Must have been a muddy day that day.
<< <i>
I actually find it hard to argue against conditonally rare moderns. The concept goes against the nature of something being "collectible". So many of the 1961-d nickels were made that virtually every single man, woman, and child in the country can own one. Yet someone has still paid 600,000 times face value for one. But hey. People collect beanie babies and precious moments too, right? >>
Again, time didn't stop in 1964. While in those days there may well have been many more nickels
in circulation than people in the country, this is no longer true. In 1964 there were over 200 million
of these in circulation and they were mostly AU's with a few XF's and Uncs. There were only about
185 million people in the country.
Today is 2004!!!! All those nickels that were in circulation back then have been joined by vast num-
bers of more coins that had been in rolls and bags in 1964. People simply got tired of saving worthless
junk that would never be collectible so they spent it. The population of the country has grown signifi-
cantly and there are now 275,000,000 people in the country. This is largely caused by time and the
inclination of people to procreate when they are well fed. It is also the result of large amounts of im-
migration. Huge quantities of water have passed under the bridge since 1964 and much of the world
has changed remarkably in over the years. There are not 230,000,000 '61-D nickels in circulation. Every
time that bridge has flooded it's taken out more of these coins. Fires and loss have wiped out huge num-
bers of these coins. Today only a little more than a third of these coins remain in circulation. Time has
not been kind to them. While coin collectors may not age, coins do. These are frequently damaged and
nice specimens tend to be in Fine condition or less. You can't go on e-bay and buy rolls of XF's because
people didn't even have enough respect for the uncs to keep them out of circulation so who'd fool with
XF's?
OK, so only every fourth and fifth man woman and child can have one. This hardly constitutes rare so it
might not be wise to mortgage your house and invest it in removing and saving '61-D's from circulation.
But ask yourself this, if you have a collection of say Jefferson nickels in gem, are you to exclude the '61-D
because nearly every family in the country can have one from circulation? In fact, if you are collecting them
in gem do you even care how many beat up VG's are left after a few decades of circulation?
<< <i>It's a nickel, people. A modern. Made 20+ years after the design change and still being produced today. The mint made 229 MILLION of the 61-D. What is the significance? What earth-shattering design or composition alteration happened in 1961? What scandal or secret happened behind the scenes at the Denver mint? What political tug-of-war caused the removal of a device or legend from the coins? Nothing. It's a N-I-C-K-E-L.
If you collect conditioinal rarities, especially moderns, you don't collect coins. You collect % points of a set rating. That emperor has no clothes.
Someone get me some more coffee, I'm on a roll! >>
Weiss, I don't think you're being trollish, despite the resurrection of the age-old "classic-versus-modern" debate. I have to admit, you made me chuckle.
And I happen to share your blindness in this respect. I don't "get it", either.
BUT...
<< <i>That some people don't like moderns or the prices
paid for them has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on their collectibility, desirability, or his-
torical importance. It would surprise some people that even a three year old coin can comprise
part of a collection. Let's not even tell them that time didn't really stop in 1964 and it's now a
few years after that.
Why people collect moderns vary as widely as the numbers of collectors but they have a lot going
for them.
-They are actually available for a little searching.
-It's a great area to make one's own discoveries since they are so poorly studied.
-There are not wide variations in surface quality which makes grading them much easier.
-The rarities are often available for a song and even the recognized rarities sell for far less than their older counterparts.
-Virtually no counterfeits, AT, or crackouts in most cases.
-There is still far less competition for coins.
-They are the only affordable US coin in nice condition.
-There are advantages in collecting in a growing area that are unrelated to increased profits.
-Not only can sets be formed from circulation but they can include many very desirable coins.
People should collect the coins they enjoy whether it's seated dollars or Jefferson nickels. There are
advantages and disadvantages to collecting any coin but writing off moderns and their collectors is
shortsighted and baseless. >>
The ever-wise Cladking is typically well-spoken and makes some excellent counterpoints. In fact, while I am mostly on Weiss' side of the issue personally, I think Cladking wins the debate (at least this round!), and I believe time will probably prove him right.
what about that recent early copper that's worth moon money just because it happens to have a Strawberry leaf instead of the other type?? if you can be realistic and look past the fascination of it's classic-ness, should that coin be so much more valuable just because it has a different leaf style??
now to put things into perspective, fast forward 160 years.........................and if you can't see where i'm going with this and why i don't need to finish, you should exit the thread immediately and turn off the PC as you leave the room.
al h.
<< <i>if you can't see where i'm going you should immediately leave the room >>
<< <i>Anyone see Coinworld "Coinvalues" (10/4/04) issue. Page 14 titled "Registry" coins sizzle.
I could not believe someone would pay $32,200 for a 1960-D Jefferson PCGS MS64 Full Steps
OR $23,000 for a 1961-D Jefferson MS65 Full Steps. What are these people thinking................
And they're not even full step nickels! The 61-D is close due to a small bridge in the steps but the 60-D has only 4.50 steps. This was all hashed out over in the registry forum a few weeks ago, here is the link for those of you who may have missed out on seeing that thread!
And here's a picture of my 1960-D that has IMHO much better steps then the coin that sold.
Ya'all have a nice day now!
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
David
Did you like the 1967 nickel that sold on Ebay today???
Crazy money, huh....
1967 PCGS MS66
coinuniverse price listing should probably be updated... $10 vs. $280... hmm...
PCGS # Description Desig 60 62 63 64 65 66 67
4079 1967 - - - - 5 10 20
Looking for 1967 PCGS/NGC slabbed coins.
I'd have to say that if a collector had to have one of these, dmhconst got a deal.
Looking for 1967 PCGS/NGC slabbed coins.
i was an underbidder on that 1967 somewhere around $60. at $200++ it seems a bit high to me though it looked to be a nice coin. i'm cautious about bidding high on the Mint State SMS year issues due to the confusion created by the U.S. Mint and recognized, or at least acknowledged, by the grading services. there's every chance that MS could be an SMS though it didn't look like it from the pictures.
i would also add that there's a 1960-D in a SEGS MS65FS holder listed at eBay right now. did anyone else seeit??
al h.
******
i could have played "Carnac" and told you that. one thing to keep in mind about those who's tendency it is to criticize modern coinage, or any coinage for that matter, but i'll consider moderns cause that's the thread topic; they almost always have no realistic perspective from which they are pointing their critical finger. i'll walk out on a limb and state that those in this thread who believe the subject date to be an easy one in well struck high grade FS have never, never, never, ever done any substantial roll searching of Jefferson Nickels from that era. if they had or if they do, the tune they whistle will be different.
remember, it's always easy to criticize from the standpoint of ignorance. education---in this case, attained by actually looking at many hundreds of coins---gives a more reasoned opinion. my challenge to anyone would be to purchase a $200 bank bag of 1961-D Jefferson Nickels, the ones they made so many of that every M-W-C in the country has some, and search through it. then report back here with the findings...............better yet, i'll play "Carnac" for you.
you'll pay hell to find the bag in the first place, that'll be the struggle. searching what you find---if you can indeed find it---will only make you start to see double and wish you had never started. you'll find an abundance of MS63-64 coins. some may have partial steps but the majority will be somewhere between wheelchair ramps and three steps. after the search for an MS64FS coin proves futile, you'll report back here as a whipped pup to beg our forgiveness.
it will be gladly given, you will be hooked on Jeffs and convinced, as we are, that you ar crazy. but it will be an educational adventure. that beats ignorant bliss any day of the week.
al h.
<< <i>cd, you must have missed this 1967 MS66
I'd have to say that if a collector had to have one of these, dmhconst got a deal. >>
Niiiice. I picked up a really pretty raw 1967 non-SMS over the weekend, too. Now all Ihave to do is get PCGS to call it a 66...
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
you'll pay hell to find the bag in the first place, that'll be the struggle. searching what you find---if you can indeed find it---will only make you start to see double and wish you had never started. you'll find an abundance of MS63-64 coins. some may have partial steps but the majority will be somewhere between wheelchair ramps and three steps. after the search for an MS64FS coin proves futile, you'll report back here as a whipped pup to beg our forgiveness"
In response to Keets,
Been there done that. Over the last year I have been searching for bags and have come by two, a 59-D bag and a 61-D. Guess what folks. Zero, nata, nothing in either bag. I submitted about 12-15 that I thought were marginal because of bridges, but for that payoff I took as shot. Not a single one came back FS. I have since given up on the searching bags and now just buy coins already in holders.
I would have to agree that there are probably very few if any of these FS nickels out there. I had rolls of 70D pennies from the bank I hadn't opened since 1970. When I did I couldn't believe the crap that I found.
My question would be though , "is the full steps issue THAT important. Why not concentrate on hairlines or ear detail? In addition , even if it is the only one ever to be found with what some agree is full steps, does it really rate an exaulted position? Full steps of not, unique or not for most collectors it's still a common date Jefferson Nickel. It's not comparable to a 1913 V no matter how many steps it has.
<< <i>Stephunter
I would have to agree that there are probably very few if any of these FS nickels out there. I had rolls of 70D pennies from the bank I hadn't opened since 1970. When I did I couldn't believe the crap that I found.
My question would be though , "is the full steps issue THAT important. Why not concentrate on hairlines or ear detail? In addition , even if it is the only one ever to be found with what some agree is full steps, does it really rate an exaulted position? Full steps of not, unique or not for most collectors it's still a common date Jefferson Nickel. It's not comparable to a 1913 V no matter how many steps it has. >>
The '61-D is a common coin in circulation and it's common in unc. This is not going
to change in the near future. It is, however, not common in gem or with full steps
and this will never change. Sure there will be more MS-65's slabbed but this does
not increase the number of gems in the world, it merely identifies them. Despite the
fact that this coin may be rarer than th '13 5c in full step, it will almost certainly never
have enough demand to even approach it in price. Even if demand for Jeffersons goes
through the roof and this coin remains rarer it will probably never approach the price
of the '13 nickel. But there are people who collect the Jeffersons and most of them
seek the best they can find. Why should it be surprising that the '61-D is included in
these sets? Everything with more demand than supply will increase in price until they
are in balance.
cladking said a mouthful when he stated plainly that there are people who collect the Jeffersons and most of them seek the best they can find.
as to other strike characteristice, if you have looked at enough Jefferson Nickels searching for Full Step coins-----read as Fully Struck-----you'd know that ear/hair detail is never present with a non-FS coin. put another way, you can look at enough coins to realize that, just from the obverse, the coin doesn't need to be flipped over!!!! also, looking at enough Jeffersons tells the looker of the stark difference between an MS63-64 coin and an MS66 wanna-be.
the fun thing about any nickel coinage is the difference in hardness of the planchets vs. relatively soft silver and gold. i suspect that many collectors assume both strike with equal ease and such is just not the case. that's one aspect that makes the series a challenge. gems really stand out and as such, are treasured. with this date we're discussing and with pretty much all dates in the series from 1951-1971, a fully struck coin-----read as Full Step-----is a gem when found.
please tell me what series you collect wherein you chase after non-fully struck examples to form a collection. don't make me put that silly Carnac hat on and blow the envelopes open again!!!!
al h.
Just two points... please, for all of the individuals who think Jeffersons are easy to find in high grade, or not collectible... then your loss is our gain. As wondercoin said, it just saves the rest of us money.
Secondly, I'm offering $2000 for the first person who sells me a PCGS graded 1965 MS65FS (not SMS), 1966MS65FS (not SMS), 1967 MS65FS (not SMS), 1968-D MS65FS, 1969D MS65FS, 1969S MS65FS or 1970D MS65FS. Just so all of you know, here is the pop report for the dates listed:
1965 - 1 known (Ray Overby's #1 Set)
1966 - 1 known (Justhavingfun's #2 Set)... a few years ago, he told me IF the coin sold, it would probably have a 10K price atleast
1967 - 0 known
1968-D - 0 known
1969-D - 0 known
1969-S - 0 known
1970-D - 1 known (Justhavingfun's #2 Set)
So, figure out the total mintage for all of these dates...
1965 - 136,131,380
1966 - 156,208,283
1967 - 107,325,800
1968-D - 91,227,880
1969-D - 202,807,500
1969-S - 120,075,000
1970-D - 515,485,380
That equates to a total mintage of all of these dates of 1,329,261,223 and a total of 3 coins have been graded MS65FS by PCGS. Yeap, 3 whole coins out of 1.3 billion...
Hum.... something tells me IF you actually found one of these coins, you'd want more money for those non-collectible, not worth the nickel their minted on, ugly coins.
Again, I'd rather you didn't like them... and didn't buy them... but go ahead and find them for me, will ya?
Have a nice day!
Steve
In memory of the USAF Security Forces lost: A1C Elizabeth N. Jacobson, 9/28/05; SSgt Brian McElroy, 1/22/06; TSgt Jason Norton, 1/22/06; A1C Lee Chavis, 10/14/06; SSgt John Self, 5/14/07; A1C Jason Nathan, 6/23/07; SSgt Travis Griffin, 4/3/08; 1Lt Joseph Helton, 9/8/09; SrA Nicholas J. Alden, 3/3/2011. God Bless them and all those who have lost loved ones in this war. I will never forget their loss.
mostly about the nickels of the early '60's which were saved in massive quantities. While
time has decimated the numbers of surviving coins from this era it should be remembered
that many ofthe post 1964 coins were not really saved at all!!! Not only weren't there lots
of bags of 1974 nickels or '81-P quarters set aside neither were there collectors scouring
the coins and setting aside the nice ones. In fact only a handfull of collectors bothered with
these in their collections! With some effort and patience you can find a bag of '61-D nickels
that will be just as Keets described (unless it's a bad bag), but the same amount of work
probably won't turn up even an original roll of 1974 nickels. Most rolls of many dates of mod-
erns on the market were assembled from mint sets. While the average quality of these
rolls is excellent, usually the highest grades and varieties have been cherry picked. Other
than most cents, many nickels, and a few quarters most of the circulating post '64 coins sim-
ply weren't saved as bags, rolls, or even singles. If not for the rapidly disappearing mint
sets, some of these coins would be scarce in unc.
Good Morning Leo, Here's my S.E.G.S. Collection/ I just got my 1961-D back? it's close to what you have,,,,, write me, an give your comments on it! /Jims Jefferson Collection/Ngc Registry Cir-1938 to Date catagory. I also have my "Custom Vintage Jeffersons as well, your most certainly welcome to visit along with the other Jefferson Specialists on here? You'll find my (1) Jefferson War Nickel also there, only (9) have been certified thru-NGC,FROM 1942 TO 1945 . I have the 1945(S)an Francisco Silver War Jefferson. Only (1) has been certified!