Well George, the current seller and the buyer of the coin at $150 both post here. Instead of making legal threats, perhaps they should answer the questions.
What I find most interesting about this whole thing is that we have not heard from the parties involved. <ALTHOUGH it is OBVIOUS to everyone that they threw their "bully" weight around behind the scenes>
It has been pointed out that if this was some "wannabe" or ebay newbie the CU forum members would have them running for the border!!!!...OR they would log on and try to explain their way of "seeing" it. Or they would just say hey...."you caught me".
PESONALLY.... I think Braddick was NOT trying to make this into the big deal it has turned out to be...he was doing what IS the essence of these forums...educating!
Maybe I missed it in one of the dozen or so threads in regards to this coin as well as the other one, but the one thing I haven't read is truly an "expert" non biased opinion as to whether the coin is AT/NT/MA (market acceptable).
I would like to hear from someone that really knows toned Morgans as to whether they believe this coin as a shot @ slabbing at NGC or PCGS. From my experience, ANACS can sometimes be real tough on color and grading.
<< <i>Maybe I missed it in one of the dozen or so threads in regards to this coin as well as the other one, but the one thing I haven't read is truly an "expert" non biased opinion as to whether the coin is AT/NT/MA (market acceptable).
I would like to hear from someone that really knows toned Morgans as to whether they believe this coin as a shot @ slabbing at NGC or PCGS. From my experience, ANACS can sometimes be real tough on color and grading.
Michael >>
Michael, this coin would not slab with PCGS or NGC. In fact, even ANACS declared it AT.
it's simple. anacs has an opinon. anaconda has an opinion. pcgs has an opinion & guess what so does ngc.
sometimes opinions differ. in this case, opinions differ as to the value of this coin. anacs thinks it's worth 20 bucks. anaconda thinks it's worth alot more.
you should respect others's rights to having THEIR OPINION.
<< <i>but the one thing I haven't read is truly an "expert" non biased opinion as to whether the coin is AT/NT/MA (market acceptable). >>
TBT said it is the real deal:
<< <i>I have seen the coin and yes it will slab.....the colors are sitting on smooth luster that is mirror like and deep. VERY nice coin with Sonnier like color and Luster. >>
For those who missed it, Eric's post is almost exactly how Braddick's first -- and now deleted -- post appeared. And yes, the "tactic," such as it is, is the same and involves the same parties.
And I take it, based on past experience, this post will have staying power, without regard to the vitriol of baseless threats.
Michael, this coin would not slab with PCGS or NGC. In fact, even ANACS declared it AT.
I don't know that you can be 100% sure of this. If I remember correctly, in one of the original threads about this coin, there were some members here that thought the toning was NT. Hmmm...seems he could clear everything up by sending it in himself and it finding its way into an NGC or PCGS holder (he'd also save himself 5K).
<< <i>Michael, this coin would not slab with PCGS or NGC. In fact, even ANACS declared it AT.
I don't know that you can be 100% sure of this. If I remember correctly, in one of the original threads about this coin, there were some members here that thought the toning was NT. Hmmm...seems he could clear everything up by sending it in himself and it finding its way into an NGC or PCGS holder (he'd also save himself 5K). >>
It is a pretty well done job, but it is AT, and I base that on 27 years of experience. When I get the chance, I will take the image and note the problems with it.
Yes Karl, it was meant as a joke. And we're not talking about mere disputes about "grading." This is coin pumping and dumping. Go watch the movie "Boiler Room" for an analogous practice.
I still come back to the same conclusion, which is if the coin could have made it's way into a PCGS or NGC holder.....it would have. That's not an endorsement that it is an AT coin, but I don't think these dealers are in the business of throwing away profits like that because they are too lazy to send the coin in. There has to be a better than average chance it won't holder for whatever reason or it would have been submitted and we wouldn't have this conspiracy thread to post too.
do you also believe that only anacs/pcgs/ngc's opinions matter about coins & toning?
I've read many of your comments on this matter in the past. In theory, they have merit and warrant consideration.
But the practices identified here are another matter entirely, as in: "let me purchase this cubic zirconia from A for $300, and I'll give it to C to be auctioned as a natural diamond for $3500."
<< <i>it's simple. anacs has an opinon. anaconda has an opinion. pcgs has an opinion & guess what so does ngc.sometimes opinions differ. in this case, opinions differ as to the value of this coin. anacs thinks it's worth 20 bucks. anaconda thinks it's worth alot more. you should respect others's rights to having THEIR OPINION.
case closed.
>>
Oh no, I agree with the dork................I'm in trouble now.
Just because the coin wasn't "blessed" by PCGS doesn't make it AT and even if it was "blessed" by PCGS or NGC wouldn't make it any less of a sucker deal for the buyer. If you guys don't see this kind of hype happening all around the coin "world" then you need to look a little closer. The new unsuspecting collector is getting buried in hyped , slabbed MSabillion common stuff that won't hold value. The US mint being the first to line thier pockets.
Sequitur - your analogy is totaly bogus and wrong.
The coin in question is obviously not a FAKE coin. The question is whether or not the toning is NT or AT. ANACS says it is AT, Adrian and TBT think they are wrong, I personally don't have an opinion because I haven't seen the coin in hand. And even then, I probably could not tell.
But the bottom line is, there is no ABSOLUTE way - unless you were standing there when it happened - to say that this coin is either NT or AT!
There are many people on this board who have submitted coins to PCGS and had them turned down for AT several times and then they submit them one more time and VIOLA - PCGS slabs the very same coin!!! Given that kind of information, even PCGS is not perfect so whether or not PCGS would slab the coin is totally irrellevant as a determination of AT vs NT.
Cecil Total Copper Nutcase - African, British Ships, Channel Islands!!! 'Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup'
Anaconda's feedback is perfect 100%. If someone pays anywhere near what he is offering, so be it. But it is ideal for anyone buying any coin to get some background on it. This coin, thanks to members, does, and it would make me hesitate buying it. But someone else out their might simply want it. Everything has a price. But do your homework. Any coin I have purchased, I KNEW a bit where it came from. SOme I have paid WAY more than just a few years ago, but I felt good about my purchase...because I did my homework, then decided to go for it.
This coin, I would never purchase anyway, with it not slabbed by NGC or PCGS. That would help dictact what it's true value is.
How many times have I heard on this forum "Don't Buy Raw Coins On E-Bay" There is usually a reason they are raw. DUH!!! What is this Kindergarten Koin Klub???
It really doesn't matter to me because I'm not a player on this end of the market, but if someone else on this board knowingly cracked a $10 coin designated as AT and tried to sell it as NT for $50, they'd be ridiculed to death and run out on a rail.
I guess the magnitude of the numbers involved here are a bit difficult to comprehend. Perhaps "The bigger the lie, the more people will believe it" is an appropriate catchphrase in the coin business.
1. If the field of play was balanced I would respond but its a lynch mob...no thanks. 2. Braddick took it upon himself to edit and apologies. No threats from TBT. 3. Braddick has also refused to post that he was not threatened allowing the thread to spiral. 4. TBT bought the coins....and sold the coins to a DEALER of tone material. 5. TBT has no control over how a coin is marketed or priced when own by another. 6. TBT believes the coins to be NT and disagrees with ANACS....shock! 7. TBT has the coin(s) history from the past seller that is contrary to Braddicks post. 8. I bumped old threads to remind members that Braddick has duped us in the past.
All I ask is for each person to look past the personal agendas of posters like K6AZ and company as the truth is right there. Nothing has been done that is unethical, unlawful, unscrupulous, or dishonest. Its simple as far as TBT is involved: Coins were bought, histories exchanged, sold dealer to dealer. Anything after that is not my issue so please before continuing the assumptions.....look at the facts.
I understand some will disagree and that's OK!
We are all allowed to form opinions about color, grading, coins, life, but its is also un-ethical to slander someone / company just b/c you disagree......especially on an open public forum.
I will respond to PM's and may post again if things remain civil. K6AZ has a personal agenda and vendetta vs myself and TBT so I will not get into another pissing match him or his groupies.
<< <i>6. TBT believes the coins to be NT and disagrees with ANACS....shock! >>
I have two questions:
1. Since you believe that, and clearly the coin would be worth a hell of a lot of money graded by PCGS or NGC, did you try submitting it to either? 2. Was it sold by you still in the ANACS holder, or raw?
TBT, I have some news for you. I don't need to add any commentary. Those auctions speak for themselves as far as what is going on here. Anyone with even the most basic knowledge in numismatics can figure it out without any help from me.
Bryan I am not coming down on sides on this issue, but I would like to hear if it was submitted to NGC or PCGS, if not why not and if so what did they say? Inquiring minds want to know.
<< <i>The question is whether or not the toning is NT or AT. ANACS says it is AT, Adrian and TBT think they are wrong, I personally don't have an opinion because I haven't seen the coin in hand. And even then, I probably could not tell.
But the bottom line is, there is no ABSOLUTE way - unless you were standing there when it happened - to say that this coin is either NT or AT! >>
Naive, aren't we, ccrdragon. Look at the rest of Anaconda's listings. How many other coins are raw? How many other coins come with a "I'm just too lazy to submit to PCGS. I'd rather sit in front of my computer, and just type unrelated nonsense and post my vacation pictures on Ebay. You take your valuable time, spend the 30 bucks, and as a reward, I'll pay you $5K more than you paid me to buy the coin back."
The coins were bought, looked at, researched right before the Labor day weekend. They were bought that weekend raw by a dealer before Long Beach. I was planning on giving them to NGC at the LB show.
Comments
Cameron Kiefer
42/92
Anaconda Auction
<< <i>I just want to know if the current seller bought it raw or in the ANACS slab...
Good question
Rookie Joe
It has been pointed out that if this was some "wannabe" or ebay newbie the CU forum members would have them running for the border!!!!...OR they would log on and try to explain their way of "seeing" it. Or they would just say hey...."you caught me".
PESONALLY.... I think Braddick was NOT trying to make this into the big deal it has turned out to be...he was doing what IS the essence of these forums...educating!
K S
Russ, NCNE
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
When will you be issuing your apology thread?
My posts viewed
since 8/1/6
I would like to hear from someone that really knows toned Morgans as to whether they believe this coin as a shot @ slabbing at NGC or PCGS. From my experience, ANACS can sometimes be real tough on color and grading.
Michael
<< <i>Welcome to today's episode of As The Coin World Turns.
Russ, NCNE >>
Yeah Russ, except this time the thread is not going to be edited under any circumstances.
<< <i>Maybe I missed it in one of the dozen or so threads in regards to this coin as well as the other one, but the one thing I haven't read is truly an "expert" non biased opinion as to whether the coin is AT/NT/MA (market acceptable).
I would like to hear from someone that really knows toned Morgans as to whether they believe this coin as a shot @ slabbing at NGC or PCGS. From my experience, ANACS can sometimes be real tough on color and grading.
Michael >>
Michael, this coin would not slab with PCGS or NGC. In fact, even ANACS declared it AT.
sometimes opinions differ. in this case, opinions differ as to the value of this coin. anacs thinks it's worth 20 bucks. anaconda thinks it's worth alot more.
you should respect others's rights to having THEIR OPINION.
case closed.
now, go find real "issues" to complain about.
K S
<< <i>but the one thing I haven't read is truly an "expert" non biased opinion as to whether the coin is AT/NT/MA (market acceptable). >>
TBT said it is the real deal:
<< <i>I have seen the coin and yes it will slab.....the colors are sitting on smooth luster that is mirror like and deep. VERY nice coin with Sonnier like color and Luster. >>
Russ, NCNE
And I take it, based on past experience, this post will have staying power, without regard to the vitriol of baseless threats.
I don't know that you can be 100% sure of this. If I remember correctly, in one of the original threads about this coin, there were some members here that thought the toning was NT. Hmmm...seems he could clear everything up by sending it in himself and it finding its way into an NGC or PCGS holder (he'd also save himself 5K).
In which case both you and the former Iraqi Information Minister have a lot in common.
K S
<< <i>i don't see a problem here, neither ethically nor morally.
In which case both you and the former Iraqi Information Minister have a lot in common. >>
hmmm, having an opinion that differs from yours AUTOMATICALLY makes me comparable to the Iraqi Information Minister???
i gotta know what kind of drugs your taking!
K S
<< <i>Michael, this coin would not slab with PCGS or NGC. In fact, even ANACS declared it AT.
I don't know that you can be 100% sure of this. If I remember correctly, in one of the original threads about this coin, there were some members here that thought the toning was NT. Hmmm...seems he could clear everything up by sending it in himself and it finding its way into an NGC or PCGS holder (he'd also save himself 5K). >>
It is a pretty well done job, but it is AT, and I base that on 27 years of experience. When I get the chance, I will take the image and note the problems with it.
Michael
<< <i>This is coin pumping and dumping. Go watch the movie "Boiler Room" for an analogous practice. >>
ok so you don't like the coin. does that mean nobody else is allowed to like it either?
do you also believe that only anacs/pcgs/ngc's opinions matter about coins & toning?
K S
You mean like the $19.95 NCM 1995-w "Silver Eagles" that sell on Ebay for $200-$300? How about Tonecoin's auctions?
2 Cam-Slams!
1 Russ POTD!
I've read many of your comments on this matter in the past. In theory, they have merit and warrant consideration.
But the practices identified here are another matter entirely, as in: "let me purchase this cubic zirconia from A for $300, and I'll give it to C to be auctioned as a natural diamond for $3500."
<< <i>it's simple. anacs has an opinon. anaconda has an opinion. pcgs has an opinion & guess what so does ngc.sometimes opinions differ. in this case, opinions differ as to the value of this coin. anacs thinks it's worth 20 bucks. anaconda thinks it's worth alot more.
you should respect others's rights to having THEIR OPINION.
case closed.
>>
Oh no, I agree with the dork................I'm in trouble now.
Just because the coin wasn't "blessed" by PCGS doesn't make it AT and even if it was "blessed" by PCGS or NGC wouldn't make it any less of a sucker deal for the buyer. If you guys don't see this kind of hype happening all around the coin "world" then you need to look a little closer. The new unsuspecting collector is getting buried in hyped , slabbed MSabillion common stuff that won't hold value. The US mint being the first to line thier pockets.
I think there's a big difference. I haven't seen a tonecoin auction lately, but don't they make a claim that the coins are naturally toned?
Looking for PCGS AU58 Washington's, 32-63.
I don't think he made any reference at all to whether the coins were original or not.
2 Cam-Slams!
1 Russ POTD!
The coin in question is obviously not a FAKE coin. The question is whether or not the toning is NT or AT. ANACS says it is AT, Adrian and TBT think they are wrong, I personally don't have an opinion because I haven't seen the coin in hand. And even then, I probably could not tell.
But the bottom line is, there is no ABSOLUTE way - unless you were standing there when it happened - to say that this coin is either NT or AT!
There are many people on this board who have submitted coins to PCGS and had them turned down for AT several times and then they submit them one more time and VIOLA - PCGS slabs the very same coin!!! Given that kind of information, even PCGS is not perfect so whether or not PCGS would slab the coin is totally irrellevant as a determination of AT vs NT.
Total Copper Nutcase - African, British Ships, Channel Islands!!!
'Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup'
<< <i>I haven't seen a tonecoin auction lately, but don't they make a claim that the coins are naturally toned?
I don't think he made any reference at all to whether the coins were original or not. >>
That's correct. He has never claimed the coins were naturally toned in his auctions.
However:
<< <i>By the way, I am quite confident that it is original bag type toning. >>
From the auction that is the subject of this thread.
Russ, NCNE
a. Making no claims about the toning when you know it to be fake.
b. Claiming you're confident that it's original when a reputable authority has deemed it to be fake.
2 Cam-Slams!
1 Russ POTD!
This coin, I would never purchase anyway, with it not slabbed by NGC or PCGS. That would help dictact what it's true value is.
There is usually a reason they are raw. DUH!!! What is this Kindergarten Koin Klub???
I guess the magnitude of the numbers involved here are a bit difficult to comprehend. Perhaps "The bigger the lie, the more people will believe it" is an appropriate catchphrase in the coin business.
2 Cam-Slams!
1 Russ POTD!
1. If the field of play was balanced I would respond but its a lynch mob...no thanks.
2. Braddick took it upon himself to edit and apologies. No threats from TBT.
3. Braddick has also refused to post that he was not threatened allowing the thread to spiral.
4. TBT bought the coins....and sold the coins to a DEALER of tone material.
5. TBT has no control over how a coin is marketed or priced when own by another.
6. TBT believes the coins to be NT and disagrees with ANACS....shock!
7. TBT has the coin(s) history from the past seller that is contrary to Braddicks post.
8. I bumped old threads to remind members that Braddick has duped us in the past.
All I ask is for each person to look past the personal agendas of posters like K6AZ and company as the truth is right there. Nothing has been done that is unethical, unlawful, unscrupulous, or dishonest. Its simple as far as TBT is involved: Coins were bought, histories exchanged, sold dealer to dealer. Anything after that is not my issue so please before continuing the assumptions.....look at the facts.
I understand some will disagree and that's OK!
We are all allowed to form opinions about color, grading, coins, life, but its is also un-ethical to slander someone / company just b/c you disagree......especially on an open public forum.
I will respond to PM's and may post again if things remain civil. K6AZ has a personal agenda and vendetta vs myself and TBT so I will not get into another pissing match him or his groupies.
<< <i>6. TBT believes the coins to be NT and disagrees with ANACS....shock! >>
I have two questions:
1. Since you believe that, and clearly the coin would be worth a hell of a lot of money graded by PCGS or NGC, did you try submitting it to either?
2. Was it sold by you still in the ANACS holder, or raw?
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>The question is whether or not the toning is NT or AT. ANACS says it is AT, Adrian and TBT think they are wrong, I personally don't have an opinion because I haven't seen the coin in hand. And even then, I probably could not tell.
But the bottom line is, there is no ABSOLUTE way - unless you were standing there when it happened - to say that this coin is either NT or AT! >>
Naive, aren't we, ccrdragon. Look at the rest of Anaconda's listings. How many other coins are raw? How many other coins come with a "I'm just too lazy to submit to PCGS. I'd rather sit in front of my computer, and just type unrelated nonsense and post my vacation pictures on Ebay. You take your valuable time, spend the 30 bucks, and as a reward, I'll pay you $5K more than you paid me to buy the coin back."
Wanna buy a bridge?
2 Cam-Slams!
1 Russ POTD!
Is it in good condition with a fresh coat of paint? Whats the price
and where is it located?
Camelot
<< <i>Could you tell me a little more about the bridge being sold.
Is it in good condition with a freash coat of paint? Whats the price
and where is it located? >>
A little bit of rust. It's in Brooklyn. Where else?