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Opinions sought- What would you do if........UPDATED Pg 3
Boom
Posts: 10,165 ✭
A fellow Registry participant and user of these boards, lied about every question put to him regarding his auction? During the auction he only had a full sized scan of a semi-key PCGS slabbed coin and I couldn't quite make it out. So. using the ask the seller a question feature I asked "What is on the obverse?"
Now, again, bear in mind that this is a PCGS Collectors Club member, the owner of a highly ranked set and from time to time he posts on these boards. I figure I can trust him, right?! He tells me, "Nothing, the coin is fine." I believed him, I bid...I WON.
Days pass and given I always pay immediately, I begin to wonder why he hasn't left feedback for me like most people I deal with do. He tells me that unless I post first he has no way of knowing how the transaction is going and that he has no way of knowing whether or not I received it. Well, I noticed in the "Action" column of my paypal account, for the first time ever, the words "Track and Confirm." Now this is immediately after he made the aforementioned statement...I went to track and confirm and there it was, that I had received it the DAY BEFORE I asked the question, to which he again blatantly lied! Suspicions were really mounting especially in lieu of the fact that the item was grotesque. (This makes 2 lies so far!)
I took pictures of this hideous monstrosity with "nothing wrong with it", wait for the weekend to pass and bright and early Monday moning, August 16th, I shipped it back (actually my wife does the shipping) using insured mail. Having already lied twice, I expected problems and asked the wife to also put track and confirm or signature confirmation on it. Poor dear forgot to do the latter as she had quite a bundle to handle that day so I can't be angry with her. It left "insured" but no track and confirm."
Well, here we are....30 days after I put it in the system, and can you believe that NO ONE can account for this package? We may not be able to track insured mail but the USPS can and they are investigating as we speak. I wouldn't put it past this fine, upstanding member to have a buddy on the inside and maybe worked out some sort of deal for this thing to go missing.
So here I am with a liar, guilty of Fraud, false and deceptive advertising, an attitude and does not want to co-operate in the least in filing a claim. I've spoken to several other members here and there seems to be an ongoing problem in that area, whcich by the way, happens to involve a military establishment.
I have resisted doing what I am doing right now for over a month. I have resisted slapping him with a well deserved negative as for sure he will retaliate and there goes my perfect 100% positive feedback rating when all I am guilty of is trusting this person. I don't really know how to get pictures up here. My skills in that department are lacking, but given a way...a chance, I will post this gross thing. This whole fiasco reeks something terrible. Given what info I have offered, what would your opinions be as to how to handle this? What does your gut instinct tell you what is going on? Thank you!
Now, again, bear in mind that this is a PCGS Collectors Club member, the owner of a highly ranked set and from time to time he posts on these boards. I figure I can trust him, right?! He tells me, "Nothing, the coin is fine." I believed him, I bid...I WON.
Days pass and given I always pay immediately, I begin to wonder why he hasn't left feedback for me like most people I deal with do. He tells me that unless I post first he has no way of knowing how the transaction is going and that he has no way of knowing whether or not I received it. Well, I noticed in the "Action" column of my paypal account, for the first time ever, the words "Track and Confirm." Now this is immediately after he made the aforementioned statement...I went to track and confirm and there it was, that I had received it the DAY BEFORE I asked the question, to which he again blatantly lied! Suspicions were really mounting especially in lieu of the fact that the item was grotesque. (This makes 2 lies so far!)
I took pictures of this hideous monstrosity with "nothing wrong with it", wait for the weekend to pass and bright and early Monday moning, August 16th, I shipped it back (actually my wife does the shipping) using insured mail. Having already lied twice, I expected problems and asked the wife to also put track and confirm or signature confirmation on it. Poor dear forgot to do the latter as she had quite a bundle to handle that day so I can't be angry with her. It left "insured" but no track and confirm."
Well, here we are....30 days after I put it in the system, and can you believe that NO ONE can account for this package? We may not be able to track insured mail but the USPS can and they are investigating as we speak. I wouldn't put it past this fine, upstanding member to have a buddy on the inside and maybe worked out some sort of deal for this thing to go missing.
So here I am with a liar, guilty of Fraud, false and deceptive advertising, an attitude and does not want to co-operate in the least in filing a claim. I've spoken to several other members here and there seems to be an ongoing problem in that area, whcich by the way, happens to involve a military establishment.
I have resisted doing what I am doing right now for over a month. I have resisted slapping him with a well deserved negative as for sure he will retaliate and there goes my perfect 100% positive feedback rating when all I am guilty of is trusting this person. I don't really know how to get pictures up here. My skills in that department are lacking, but given a way...a chance, I will post this gross thing. This whole fiasco reeks something terrible. Given what info I have offered, what would your opinions be as to how to handle this? What does your gut instinct tell you what is going on? Thank you!
0
Comments
<< <i>I wouldn't put it past this fine, upstanding member to have a buddy on the inside and maybe worked out some sort of deal for this thing to go missing. >>
Oh geez.
Cameron Kiefer
Save the board some drama and try to get it resolved first.
And do I sense another 500+ post thread brewing?
This statement is stupid:
<< <i>I wouldn't put it past this fine, upstanding member to have a buddy on the inside and maybe worked out some sort of deal for this thing to go missing. >>
That said, if it's the coin I think it is, you have a legitimate complaint if the seller specifically told you there were no problems with it. The obverse looked like crap.
Russ, NCNE
Before filing a claim your local post office can check where the package was last scanned.
This will tell you if it made it to the receivers post office or not.
My posts viewed
since 8/1/6
<< <i>I can't believe that coin is in a PCGS 66 holder. I'd be ticked off too if I asked if the coin had any problems, was told it didn't, and got that piece of dung in the mail. >>
That POS is a PCGS 66? Looks like HRH may have to eat this one.
I'd be HOT too, especially since YOU made a point to ask the following...
<< <i>It's awful hard to tell from the pix but what is that all over the front of this slab? >>
and was told....
<< <i>It's just a bad photo. The coin is nice. >>
<< <i>I can't believe that coin is in a PCGS 66 holder. >>
I have to think that the splooge grew on the coin after it was graded.
Russ, NCNE
Perhaps some of you have seen 60 minutes and 48 hours, with cameras hidden in sorting rooms and caught red handed, right there on tape are clerks, especially during the Holiday Season, rifling thru the mail, stealing Christmas Cards that may have money in them from relatives, even obvious Birthday card to get at little kids' Birthday money etc. So Puleeez, Cameron and all, believe me, I know what I am saying. Last time something like this happened it was the USPS employee that was the thief.
Conspiracy against me...For the thousands of transcations I have handled/ shipped...NO there isn't, but in THIS case- nothing would surprise me. I have waited patiently for over a month and today the Postmaster General's Office and Mail Inspectors let me know that there is an investigation underway in THAT particular area and by NO MEANS is mine the first complaint and, for the record, what do the words "Internal Investigation" mean to all of you that just had a smart remark?
Relayer, I agree with you but that's what has me making this statement about a buddy/ buddy inside job because last I heard, "No one at either Post Office has even seen this package." They tell me straight out that they do not know where it is!
Enough is enough, I have given Mr. William Bryan every chance in the world, alias thanks1. I don't know who he is on here but I do recall that he makes few posts and that he did come out one day a few months ago and had some smart remark to which Bob Zap said, "Now that's funny Bill." Unless he changed his icon it was a small Blue butterfly that flapped it's wings. I'll pull up last night and this morning's email! Stand by
siliconvalleycoins.com
HERE ARE BOOM'S EMAILS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Warren Segura" <warren54@eatel.net>
To: <williamr.bryan@us.army.mil>
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: Hey William,
>> Thank you
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <williamr.bryan@us.army.mil>
>> To: "Warren Segura" <warren54@eatel.net>
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 3:38 PM
>> Subject: Re: Hey William,
>>
>>
>
>>> > It's just a bad photo. The coin is nice.
>>> >
>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > From: Warren Segura <warren54@eatel.net>
>>> > Date: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 9:52 am
>>> > Subject: Re: Hey William,
>>> >
>>
>>>> > > PCGS 66 1961-D for pittbreeder
>>>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>>>> > > From: <williamr.bryan@us.army.mil>
>>>> > > To: "Warren Segura" <warren54@eatel.net>
>>>> > > Cc: "Bob Zurich" <BOBZAPS@aol.com>
>>>> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:56 AM
>>>> > > Subject: Re: Hey William,
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>
>>>>> > > > Hey Warren, Fine. It's hard to tell what slab you are talking
>>>
>>>> > > about. I
>>>> > > never forget. Hah!
>>>
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > > Thanks, Bill
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > > ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> > > > From: Warren Segura <warren54@eatel.net>
>>>>> > > > Date: Monday, August 9, 2004 7:23 pm
>>>>> > > > Subject: Hey William,
>>>>> > > >
>>>>
>>>>>> > > > > How ya doin'?
>>>>>> > > > > It's awful hard to tell from the pix but what is that all
>>>>>> > > > > over the front of this slab? Oh...don't forget the feedback, huh!
>>>>>> > > > > Thanks
>>>>>> > > > > pittbreeder
>>>>
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >
>>>
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
----- Original Message -----
From: Warren Segura <warren54@eatel.net>
Date: Sunday, September 12, 2004 5:00 pm
Subject: Time to file a claim
> William,
> Let's see if we can work this out together and be done with it.
> If you would refund my money because I did pay for insurance, your
> tag # VE 895 702 516 US, I would appreciate it. You, in turn,
> could file a claim for reimbursement from the Post Office. I have
> had to do this once before. If I must remove the dispute with
> Paypal with you word that you will do this immediately, I would
> contact Paypal, advise them that we are in the process of ironing
> this out ourselves and remove the dispute and the chargeback. Will
> you do this on your word as a man?
> It will then be incumbent upon the USPS to reimburse you when
> you file your claim. Does this make sense to you and do you find
> this agreeable?
> Warren
Awesome blast white 1961D Washington Quarter. 66+ Reverse is even better! Sharp strike. Don't let the camera fool you! - this coin looks awesome!
Yep - I'm selling them all!
Check back every week.
I have never sent-in a single coin for grading, regrade or upgrade - so many of these coins will upgrade.
These are all from my personal collection.
********************************************************************************************************
I sent a package to xxxxxxxx in Virginia Beach, VA at a military address and it didn't arrive. I won't send anymore to military addresses unless I register them. I retired from the Army last year and remember the military doesn't normally have to sign for insured mail. I never understood how they got away with it.
xxxxxxx
THEN file with eBay and/or Paypal and/or Credit card company - and or USPS Fraud and/or Attorney General and/or whoever else you can think of.
Last but not least - YES, there is a problem with the USPS. If they automatically insured their mail like UPS, then it would be better. But if you are PAYING them to deliver an item, and they do NOT deliver it - then it SHOULD be their responsibility. If you pay someone for another 'service', and it is not handled properly, then what's difference ....... the fact that it is a government agency should also make this even MORE true. Aren't we supposed to trust the government? You should NOT have to buy INSURANCE to insure that the government does the job that you are PAYING them (with postage) to DO! IMHO.
Looking for PCGS AU58 Washington's, 32-63.
Only after I had no alternative but to involve Paypal did he answer one phone call and last night's email. You see the reply and as for the phone call it was useless. I gave him every benefit of doubt even unto last night's email which you may view above and all I got in return was a pissy attitude and the reply you see from this morning. He has forced my hand by all of this and I'm not done yet.
For the most part I am an even tempered person and treat people the way I would like to be treated but when all these Mr. Nice efforts fail, it's on!
WHAT I FAIL TO COMPREHEND IS WHY, RIGHT OUT THE BLOCKS, DID HE CHOOSE TO Cc Bob!
Bikingnut, what you see are more than likely the results of an enhancement job gone wrong! Either the coin had problems first and the enhancement only disguised it for a while or the coin was somehow damp when placed in the slab or got this way AFTER it was certified as there is NO WAY you'll ever convince me that PCGS would have graded this PCGS 66 in this condition, with these problems.
I agree. That's one I would send back to PCGS or if sold, accurately describe and photograph it so the buyer sees what they are getting and sell it "as is".
Looking for PCGS AU58 Washington's, 32-63.
Bikingnut, you're military, how convenient would it be for this to be "unaccounted for"? Is a regular USPS carrier allowed on the base or is there an enlisted man that meets the carrier at the base's entrance?
plain & simple, that's why you pay for plastic.
K S
<< <i>if there's a problem w/ the coin , & it's in a pcgs slab, your problem is w/ pcgs, NOT the seller. >>
Maybe true in the general case. But in this case, even though I think ultimately HRH needs to eat this coin, the primary beef IS with the seller, because in answering the questions BEFORE the bids were placed, the seller blatantly misrepresented the coin as problem-free and essentially said the crud in the picture wasn't on the coin.
Had these questions not been asked and answered, the buyer would receive what was described and as pictured. In that case, I think a seller should still accept a return, but in that case the main beef would be with PCGS for having that POS in a 66 holder. However, in this case the seller clearly and, IMO, willfully misrepresented the coin and should be held accountable for it.
<< <i>Sorry Karl, but your argument doesn't fly when, as in this case, the buyer asked the seller about the COIN (not the plastic), in advance. >>
hey coinguy1, you are correct. i made my post before reading the whole thread.
if the COIN was the topic of discussion, the seller is obligated to back up his claim, which was taken by the bidder in good faith.
K S
AL
For those that thought my theory of someone being in on this "I haven't seen it or received it yet, when I do I'll reimburse you" scam, is "Oh Geez", BOGUS... here is the latest from the USPS and WILLIAM BRYAN, I HOPE YOU READ THIS AND ARE PAYING ATTENTION."
SOMEONE at this Military facility DID, in fact, sign for your parcel on 8-19, 5 days after it left here, well within your 10 day return privilege as described on the item's auction page that someone so kindly provided. Look s like you sent "Radar" to sign for it and you deny ever receiving it. Well a copy of the signed receipt is on it's way to me.
Now, if you are stupid enough to jeopardize you military career over this I ASSURE you that you have decided to play games with the WRONG individual. With dogged determination I will not stop until I expose the truth. If you are playing me you are playing a very dangerous game. If you are guilty I will expose you for what you are and see that formal charges, both military and Federal are brought up against you! If I am wrong and the person that signed for it is the culprit I will apologize like a man and pursue him. ARE YOU SURE you want to continue this charade, because I WILL get to the bottom of it all ?!!
I have $200 to lose...if you are guilty of more than you already are, you have a military career at stake, court martial, dishonorable discharge and THEN the Feds will have their way with you for Mail Fraud. As you can plainly see, I am obtaining answers and hard evidence against you. I have been gentlemanly with you from day one. Conversely, you have lied about EVERYTHING, from the very first question on. It's your move, SIR!! If you think you're untouchable because you are US Government...think again!
As soon as I have the signed receipt in my posession I will post it here for all to see. I wonder if "Radar" will take the fall for you or sing like a bird...Have a nice day!
From the War and National Defense Act of 1940
Sec. 521. Stay of proceedings where military service affects conduct thereof
At any stage thereof any action or proceeding in any court in
which a person in military service is involved, either as plaintiff
or defendant, during the period of such service or within sixty
days thereafter may, in the discretion of the court in which it is
pending, on its own motion, and shall, on application to it by such
person or some person on his behalf, be stayed as provided in this
Act (sections 501 to 593 of this Appendix) unless, in the opinion
of the court, the ability of plaintiff to prosecute the action or
the defendant to conduct his defense is not materially affected by
reason of his military service.
STAY OF JUDICIAL PROCEEDINGS
Pub. L. 102-12, Sec. 6, Mar. 18, 1991, 105 Stat. 37, provided
that:
"(a) Stay of Action or Proceeding. - In any judicial action or
proceeding (other than a criminal proceeding) in which a member of
the Armed Forces described in subsection (b) is involved (either as
plaintiff or defendant), the court shall, upon application by such
member (or some other person on the member's behalf) at any stage
before final judgment is entered, stay the action or proceeding
until a date after June 30, 1991.
"(b) Members Covered. - A member of the Armed Forces is covered
by subsection (a) if at the time of application for the stay of a
judicial action or proceeding the member -
"(1) is on active duty; and
"(2) is serving outside the State in which the court having
jurisdiction over the action or proceeding is located.
"(c) Definition. - For purposes of this section, the term
'State' includes the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of
Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, and Guam."
You may be waiting a long time if you are looking for a judgement against this guy.
Cameron Kiefer
Mail Fraud and felony theft are crimes, are they not?
Camelot
I'd be relentless in the pursuit of my greenbacks being returned by the SELLER, not the P.O.. It's now become a matter of principle. Gett'em Warren!!!
<< <i>So one of two things has happened here. Either Mr. Bryan is a liar(He's already proven that) or the person responsible for signing for it is the thief. >>
Or the third option is that the package was signed for by the receiving clerk and the mail has not yet been distributed to the troops. Unless it's changed since I was in, that can take several days and longer.
Russ, NCNE
That's not entirely true. I do believe the member has to be out of the country to be imune. At least that's the way it worked in several maternity suits that I saw military memebers get hit with.
Looking for PCGS AU58 Washington's, 32-63.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
1. You needed a tracking number. Without the tracking number you had to waste alot of time finding out where it went and when. ALOT of wasted time.
2. When issues like this arrise open a paypal claim immed. I am sure you already did but just incase you didnt.
3. What is your deal with holding out to leave a negative?? Once the seller lies to you its over, post a neg to let others know to avoid them. Without negs we have no idea what the seller is really like.
4. Post the sellers ID here, photos of the auction, photos of the coin. We NEED to know what sellers to avoid so this doesnt happen to us.
5. When sending a coin back for a refund let the seller know via ebay. Ship with tracking number, sig verification, ins. Then you know when the coin went back and that the right person got it, or at least it helps. Open a paypal claim as soon as you can and you will always get your money if these things are followed.
Sorry this happend to you and I know it sucks but you need to help us out so we can avoid these sellers.
<< <i>Okay boom,
1. You needed a tracking number. Without the tracking number you had to waste alot of time finding out where it went and when. ALOT of wasted time.
2. When issues like this arrise open a paypal claim immed. I am sure you already did but just incase you didnt.
3. What is your deal with holding out to leave a negative?? Once the seller lies to you its over, post a neg to let others know to avoid them. Without negs we have no idea what the seller is really like.
4. Post the sellers ID here, photos of the auction, photos of the coin. We NEED to know what sellers to avoid so this doesnt happen to us.
5. When sending a coin back for a refund let the seller know via ebay. Ship with tracking number, sig verification, ins. Then you know when the coin went back and that the right person got it, or at least it helps. Open a paypal claim as soon as you can and you will always get your money if these things are followed.
Sorry this happend to you and I know it sucks but you need to help us out so we can avoid these sellers. >>
Probably too late to make a difference... I didn't notice until about 2/3 of the way through the thread that all this is from 2004!!
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 700
<< <i>I didn't notice until about 2/3 of the way through the thread that all this is from 2004!!
Why are people resurrecting these zombie threads? What good could possibly come of it?
60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!