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Suggestion re. PCGS online priceguide

lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 45,020 ✭✭✭✭✭
Perhaps a noticeable disclaimer should be posted at the top of each page (or the priceguide homepage, at the very least) that clearly states that the prices are applicable to PCGS-graded coins only ?

This is the only preventive measure I can think of to discourage some of the abuses by sellers who quote the priceguide when discussing their coins that have been slabbed by third-tier or phony "certification" services? The only other solution I can think of would be to make the priceguide accessible to Collectors' Club members only, but I think I like the idea of a disclaimer more. I'm sure it's already on the site somewhere if you look hard enough, but it should be prominently displayed to discourage at least a few of these scammers from posting links or screenshots of it in their fraudulent auctions.

Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.

Comments

  • ccexccex Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭
    A good suggestion, LordMarcovan. Do you think that eBay, the ANA, or eBay's Coin Community Watch will actually do anything if PCGS takes your suggestion?
    "Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity" - Hanlon's Razor
  • wam98wam98 Posts: 2,685
    I'll second that L.M. Isn't there some copywrite laws being violated ? image
    Wayne
    ******
  • Also get rid of the "daily price guide" quote and say monthly or yearly depending on how often it is really going to be updated.

    Cameron Kiefer
  • BunkerBunker Posts: 3,926
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  • Good points guys.
    Scott Hopkins
    -YN Currently Collecting & Researching Colonial World Coins, Especially Spanish Coins, With a Great Interest in WWII Militaria.

    My Ebay!
  • coinguy1coinguy1 Posts: 13,484 ✭✭✭
    Email/link sent to Mr. Hall.image
  • krankykranky Posts: 8,709 ✭✭✭
    It should go a step further and say "Other grading services may use different standards than PCGS. Prices shown are not applicable for coins not graded by PCGS. On-line sellers may NOT direct bidders to this guide if the coin being sold is not graded by PCGS. If you were referred to this page from an auction site and the coin being sold is NOT in a PCGS holder, the seller is in violation of CU policy."

    I know they'll never do that, but they ought to.

    New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.

  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    hey Rob

    what your wanting used to be stated on the explanation page until about a year-and-a-half ago, then it was removed.

    al h.image
  • LindeDadLindeDad Posts: 18,766 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Or something to the effect that the prices in the guide in no way refer to the true value or market value of any coin in a PCGS or any other holder or the seller's hand. Try buying a 1974 MS66 for $30.00.image
    This is on TeleTrade now.
    1974 MS66 25c
  • nwcsnwcs Posts: 13,386 ✭✭✭
    Actually I sent a question like that to David Hall, Kranky. He said they would crack down on those people. Maybe they need reminding?
  • BigAlBigAl Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭

    In certain cases I wish they would quote the pcgs price guide.....how about a BIN 91cc MS63dmpl for $585 image


    perhaps they should concentrate listing accurate info.
  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 45,020 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I know everybody's got little issues with the accuracy of the guide, but I find it useful as a general reference, as do many other folks out there. I know it's not always up to date or accurate (I agree with Cameron that the "Daily" adjective should be removed if it is not going to be updated daily).

    I'm just fed up with seeing it abused, as I'm sure most of you are.



    << <i>what your wanting used to be stated on the explanation page until about a year-and-a-half ago, then it was removed. >>



    Keets- I thought I remembered seeing that somewhere, but I think it need to be put up prominently on each page, and some sort of smackdown attempted on those snakeweasel scammers.

    Of course they could still abuse the Numismedia priceguide in the same way, but I'm surprised at how few of them do. Perhaps this is because Numismedia blocked out the MS and PR pricelists for all grades over 60, and made them accessible to members only (though you can still access them with the search function on that site).

    We'll never be able to stop all the scammers from scamming or prevent people from overgrading, overhyping, or overpricing their coins, but at least something could be done to make an otherwise well-intentioned tool into a favorite plaything of the dishonest.

    Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.

  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    hey Rob

    snakeweasel scammers are notoriously cheap!!!!! the reason they don't use the NumisMedia prices are because to use the MS60++++++ they have to be paid members. that also used to be free until approximately the same time as the PCGS change, maybe a little bit before. one thing i have found about the PCGS guide is that a 60% factoring will usually work for much of it. certainly not for rarities and maybe i'm only doing it for areas that i collect in and browse for at eBay. but it puts me close, or should i say it used to till it started to get fixed.

    al h.image
  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 45,020 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think Numismedia got wise to the snakeweasels.

    Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.

  • Good idea, Rob. It shouldn't take much to stick that in there and make it
    prominent.
  • The only problem with that, Lord M, is that PCGS coins would actually have to SELL for the prices quoted, which most of the time, they do not. I have seen people happily sell coins for less than guide and buy coins for more than guide. No disclaimer is going to make the guide more accurate.
    image
    image
  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 45,020 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Let's forget about accuracy for the moment and just focus on keeping the snakeweasels from abusin' it.

    There's a fat irony: the folks who the priceguide is presumably intended for (i.e., CU members) don't use it, while the snakeweasels do.

    Every priceguide is gonna have its inconsistencies and shortcomings. That's why the word "guide" is in there.

    Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.

  • krankykranky Posts: 8,709 ✭✭✭
    Has anyone ever noticed the amazing similarity between the PCGS price guide and the one on ecoinprices.com?

    New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.

  • dorkkarldorkkarl Posts: 12,691 ✭✭✭
    it's ridiculous to have a price guide at all. it's an obvious conflict of interest to be the source of both grade & price. i foresee a lawsuit sometime, somewhere!

    K S
  • I think that they should just have it members only, like the pop reports, and have it log-in/password accessable only.

    That way no one on ebay would link to it because it would require a log-in. I doubt very much they would provide their log-in info.

    If they copy, or screen shot capture, any of the info on the members only site, it would be actionable by PCGS/eBay for copyright infringment and auction removal.

  • cladkingcladking Posts: 29,900 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This is obviously a great idea even if there are a couple problems with it. First there will be some people
    who'll accuse them of being full of themselves for suggesting that some other coins don't measure up or
    that raw coins aren't as good. And second there will be more demand to keep abreast of the market if it
    applies only to "their own" coins.
    tempus fugit extra philosophiam.
  • One problem I see with this is the fact that the PCGS price guide also lists prices for SOME numismatic items that are NOT PCGS graded!

    ie. The section that lists the prices for mint sets. These prices are obviously for raw mint sets!
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  • BearBear Posts: 18,953 ✭✭✭
    Each coin series ,should list the date it was last revised.
    There once was a place called
    Camelotimage
  • I posed the question/topic to Mr. Hall on the Q/A Forum.

    FYI:

    His Response.

  • RGLRGL Posts: 3,784
    I also had asked homerunhall about this last February: LINK
  • I agree.
    Young Numismatist that collects: Morgan Dollars, SAE, Proof Sets, and Liberty Nickels.
    I also love to go through rolls to find coins.
    BST
    image
    MySlabbedCoins
  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Maybe when eBay buys PCGS, NGC, and ANACS to burn off some petty cash, an update department will monitor and change the prices as the auctions close.

    It may be too fast to READ, but it will be .....timely.

    image
  • I agree with making it subscription only. For the moment, I am only a free silver member, but I did pay the extra to have access to the pop report for one year. I think the fee for the pop report should also include the price guide. Having the price guide open to all is what allows the scammers to feed on an unsuspecting public who takes the price guide as gospel, especially newbies and YNs. True, there will still be sellers, who are paid members who will still have access, but they won't be able to link directly to paid content, and as mentioned earlier, capturing and disseminating that information without the consent of PCGS would be copyright infringement. Coinvalues online only allows access to their Trends prices to magazine subscribers. PCGS should do the same. Paid members and those who pay for pops access should be the only ones to see the price guide.
    image
    image
  • IrishMikeIrishMike Posts: 7,737 ✭✭✭
    Check out DHRC and the price guide to see if there are any similarities.
  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 45,020 ✭✭✭✭✭
    image

    This needed resurrecting.

    Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.

  • pharmerpharmer Posts: 8,355
    I've always wondered why you need a password/ID to get the pop reports but not the price data, however faulty and out of date. ID should be required for both, but I imagine the mostly inflated price figures make pcgs's product look good to others. Raise the drawbridge.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

    Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."

    image
  • leothelyonleothelyon Posts: 8,537 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I like Heritages price guide! Look up a coin in their archives and find the time, place, hammer price, pics etc.
    A price guide should be substantuated with facts from past sales from auction houses, dealers for reference for future sales for same date/grade coins. But this is something we all want to avoid, keeping records for the tax collector!

    Leo

    The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

    My Jefferson Nickel Collection

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