Holy crap! Did anybody notice the pop for the 1971-S Kennedy in PR69DCAM?
Russ
Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭
It just jumped from 24 to 43, an increase of 83% in one week!!!! Is this a misprint?
Russ, NCNE
Russ, NCNE
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Joe
NEVER LET HIPPO MOUTH OVERLOAD HUMMINGBIRD BUTT!!!
WORK HARDER!!!!
Millions on WELFARE depend on you!
and I doubt a misprint as a certain someone just cracked a few boxes for a total of 750 fresh never before seen sets!
watch the pop on the jefferson next, would be my best guess, if it were a guess...
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
FOR SALE Items
Good job to whoever is doing it.
<< <i>PCGS PR 69 DCam Type 1 1981-S? >>
It's a commodity coin worth about $20.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Nothing like a doubling in the pop to get the price started on a slow downward trend! >>
Two years ago, it was a $3500 coin and the pop was 17. Then it gradually climbed to 24, taking all that time for seven new ones to be made, while recent sales have been around the $2000 mark. I'd guess they'll soon be bringing about half that.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>I'd guess they'll soon be bringing about half that. >>
GREAT! just the break I have been looking for to start my set!
Michael
<< <i>hey could it be that MrPlatnium guy and his wannabe son coming after you Russ???? >>
Could be. My set ends in 1970, and they are a bit thick.
Russ, NCNE
http://www.teletrade.com/coins/lot.asp?auction=1913&lot=1350
http://www.teletrade.com/coins/lot.asp?auction=1915&lot=1380
The market has been very strong and prices for the pop tops have been sizzling this year, but I don't know how much depth there is to the demand. This will be an excellent test of that depth.
Russ, NCNE
Um, how 'bout TT 7/28?
Joe
<< <i>TT 7/25: "Anyone's guess when another at this lofty grade might appear for sale."
Um, how 'bout TT 7/28?
That's exactly what I was thinking!
<< <i>That's the way it is with moderns -- there's always more of them to be made. For example, my personal coinquest regarded 1982-D Washington half commems. When the first PCGS 69 showed up, it sold for $5000. That started the rush, and everyone wanted to make the next $5K coin. As more are made, prices plummet. Now there's over 60 PCGS 69s, and prices are down to the $500-$600 range. I suspect even at that price point more will be submitted, ultimately bottoming out at $100 or less. And so it will go with just about all other moderns as well. Once you satisfy all the registry junkies, there's nowhere to go but down. >>
At the risk of once more wearing the "modern basher" label, this is the risk one takes when you jump into a market too soon. You run a certain amount of this type of risk with any high grade modern coin. The risk becomes infinitely higher for coins like Proof issues, silver and gold eagle bullion coins and modern commemoratives where the mint makes a MAJOR EFFORT to produce high quality pieces. In those cases there are potentially many pieces that could be graded with the high numbers like Proof-69 Cam or Dcam. When that happens the prices drop like a stone and will probably never recover, at least in terms of real (inflation adjusted) dollars.
Have there been hoards of 18th, 19th and early 20th century coins? Sure! The coins recovered from the shipwrecks, like the 1857-S double eagle, are prime examples. Other “terrestrial” examples include the cents from the Nichols Find and the Randal Hoard plus other unnamed hoards.
You can get blindsided anytime, but the risks would seem to be greater with modern Proof and specially made Uncirculated coins. The coins were well made from the get-go, and many people saved them. Business strikes can be risky too even though the vast majority have been poorly made. There’s also a chance for a bag or roll filled with most first strikes to pop up.
<< <i>The risk becomes infinitely higher for coins like Proof issues, silver and gold eagle bullion coins and modern commemoratives where the mint makes a MAJOR EFFORT to produce high quality pieces. >>
That's a fundamentally sound assertion but, in this case, it isn't applicable. The mint was producing trash in 1971. Anybody who's spent any time hunting these coins can verify that they come with all kinds of problems, such as planchet flaws, haze, even nicks and dings. Add to that the fact that two sided DCAMs are rare relative to mintage figures, and this makes the pop explosion in one week all the more amazing.
If these were 1978 and newer, it could be filed under "ho hum".
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Holy crap >>
NO
the only pop I watch is the state quarters
I hate it when you see my post before I can edit the spelling.
Always looking for nice type coins
my local dealer
Facts can be "spun" anyway one desires. Here is my take on the 82(d) Wash Half in PCGS-MS69. When the pop was very low (single digits as I recall) - I was offered (3) PCGS-MS69 at a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of that $5k sales price. Why? Because, the "purported" $5,000 sales price on the first coin was immaterial to a knowledgeable buyer and seller (the seller here was a veteran dealer with decades of experience, so the offer to me was not by a novice). As I recall, I sold (1) to a collector for a tiny, tiny fraction of the $5,000 price and kept two for my personal collection. Now, with a pop of (60) my other (2) coins are STILL worth more than I paid for the coins back when they were the "pioneers" of the MS69 trail. Could I have sold the other (2) coins for a decent profit along the way? Of course I could have. Do I care - of course not. That is still a very neat coin and, for anyone who has ever tried to slab one, -a super tough modern coin to locate in true MS69 quality IMHO.
Wondercoin
<< <i>
At the risk of once more wearing the "modern basher" label, this is the risk one takes when you jump into a market too soon. You run a certain amount of this type of risk with any high grade modern coin. The risk becomes infinitely higher for coins like Proof issues, silver and gold eagle bullion coins and modern commemoratives where the mint makes a MAJOR EFFORT to produce high quality pieces. In those cases there are potentially many pieces that could be graded with the high numbers like Proof-69 Cam or Dcam. When that happens the prices drop like a stone and will probably never recover, at least in terms of real (inflation adjusted) dollars.
Have there been hoards of 18th, 19th and early 20th century coins? Sure! The coins recovered from the shipwrecks, like the 1857-S double eagle, are prime examples. Other “terrestrial” examples include the cents from the Nichols Find and the Randal Hoard plus other unnamed hoards.
You can get blindsided anytime, but the risks would seem to be greater with modern Proof and specially made Uncirculated coins. The coins were well made from the get-go, and many people saved them. Business strikes can be risky too even though the vast majority have been poorly made. There’s also a chance for a bag or roll filled with most first strikes to pop up. >>
Certainly moderns are riskier for these very reasons though there is little to fear from
some rolls or bags of many dates turning up. Not only is it unlikely some of these will
turn up but it's very unlikely that most dates can be much affected at the high end from
this source. If a die is making a run of gems then getting more than two or three in a
roll or a dozen in a bag is highly unlikely. Generally only about a dozen die pairs will
appear in a bag and each die pair will be over an extended period of its useful life. (gen-
erally around 30,000 strikes but there is much variability).
It is wise for all collectors to get a good idea of what coins are available before comit-
ting much money to collecting them and this does apply doubly to moderns. There is
risk of this sort in all collectibles.
<< <i>That's the way it is with moderns -- there's always more of them to be made. For example, my personal coinquest regarded 1982-D Washington half commems. When the first PCGS 69 showed up, it sold for $5000. That started the rush, and everyone wanted to make the next $5K coin. As more are made, prices plummet. Now there's over 60 PCGS 69s, and prices are down to the $500-$600 range. I suspect even at that price point more will be submitted, ultimately bottoming out at $100 or less. And so it will go with just about all other moderns as well. Once you satisfy all the registry junkies, there's nowhere to go but down. >>
This most certainly does not apply to all moderns. While it may well apply to
the specially made for collectors '82-D half it most certainly does not apply to
a business strike '82-D dime or quarter. Virtually all business strike coins made
since 1965 were mostly ignored before, during, and after the fact. Sure, some
of these coins were set aside in substantial quantities and if the price were to
get high enough then at least a few of the coins would be sent in for grading, but
many others were not set aside and were almost universally poorly made even
if some were to turn up. Just because there were a few hundred million of a coin
made does not mean large numbers were saved nor does it mean that large num-
bers of collectors sought out the best specimens when they were current. People
did not collect these coins and do not have large numbers of gems just waiting for
higher prices. The coins were excrutiatingly difficult to find when they were new
and a few decades of circulation has not improved their quality.
It'll go back down once someone sends in the labels from the crackouts.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
The Ludlow Brilliant Collection (1938-64)
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
That's the way it is with moderns -- there's always more of them to be made. For example, my personal coinquest regarded 1982-D Washington half commems. When the first PCGS 69 showed up, it sold for $5000. That started the rush, and everyone wanted to make the next $5K coin. As more are made, prices plummet. Now there's over 60 PCGS 69s, and prices are down to the $500-$600 range. I suspect even at that price point more will be submitted, ultimately bottoming out at $100 or less. And so it will go with just about all other moderns as well. Once you satisfy all the registry junkies, there's nowhere to go but down.
So true...so true.
:frown
<< <i>Who cares?? >>
Well... it quacks like a troll.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Do we know who made them yet??? >>
One of our esteemed forum members has speculated that they were made by Teletrade or one of their affiliate companies.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>The first one of these to close on Teletrade brought $2255 with the juice, so the population increase hasn't yet had an impact on market value. Besides the second one coming up on TT Wednesday, there's also another from the submission listed on eBay right now.
Russ, NCNE >>
A had a good laugh at the Teletrade description of the first coin. It read in part "Once this coin is sold, its anyone's guess when another at this lofty grade level might appear for sale." The short answer, of course, is two days later. It will be interesting to see what the second one brings.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
Russ, NCNE
With these coins fetching around $2200 each, it seems that many have a strong interest in these......
<< <i>
<< <i>Do we know who made them yet??? >>
One of our esteemed forum members has speculated that they were made by Teletrade or one of their affiliate companies.
Russ, NCNE >>
heh.....money for nuttin, chicks for free
~I'm ready, I'm ready~
<< <i>I just picked up a 1976 S Clad 50C PF55 with a Pop. of 1 and I will keep it. I think it will be just as hard to find a PF55 as a high grade Kennedy. >>
Actually, it's a hell of a lot harder! I landed a PR60, (pop 1), 1964 a while back, and it won't be going anywhere either.
Russ, NCNE
Russ, NCNE