Is this IHC AT?

Bochiman · July 6, 2004 4:23PM

I am trying to learn a little about IHCs (I am not going to do the series, but I do want a nice couple of them, incl proofs, for "type" purposes).

After seeing some posts here, I believe it was Russ' a month or two ago, I read about some of the AT. I actually have one, I bought local at MS63, in to PCGS for grading for the last 32 days (my 4 freebie submissions...since they are 30 calendar days, right, don't I get some certs for them not meeting the guarantee?

) to see if it was AT or not, and if not, it goes to my son for his collection as I start his 100 year anniversary date set (he was born 2002 and I would like to get 1902 set for him as he grows).

So, that all being said, I am still trying to learn what makes a IHC look AT or not...

I see this one on ebay and it REALLY looks AT to me....is it? What are telltale signs?

Bright colors...AT or NT?

ElectricEye · July 6, 2004 5:33PM

the colors do not look right, nor the patterns ~ it's looks cleaned

dcarr · July 6, 2004 5:45PM

AT or NT - either way it is not very attractive, I don't think.
The cheek has a dull texture to it, which tells me that the original proof surfaces (if it really is a proof) have been impaired there.

One thing is for sure. I would never grade it a 66.

Monstavet · July 6, 2004 5:52PM

Cleaned and re-toning?

TUMUSS · July 6, 2004 6:12PM

<< <i>Cleaned and re-toning? >>

Rob790 · July 7, 2004 7:33AM

AT all the way, doesn't look like a proof coin either- if it is, it's a very poor impaired example.

tsacch · July 7, 2004 7:42AM

AT.....ayyyyyyyyyy teeeeeeeeee...... a........T

Catch22 · July 7, 2004 7:49AM

These guys are getting really good at AT and recoloring coins. I don't trust my skills to determine one way or another, but I always ask myself "why is this nice of a coin being auctioned raw?"

mgoodm3 · July 7, 2004 7:56AM

The rev actually looks pretty good. Looks proof. Obv appears to have been messed with. The dullness on the check and around the date look like cleaning. Colors are a bit funny.

shylock · July 7, 2004 8:05AM

Going by the image it's too electric to be envelope toning -- the only acceptable way an MS IH could acquire colors close to that. Both services will grade envelope toned Indians, so if this is MS66/67 he's leaving a tone of $$$ on the table by selling it raw

PS: the off-toned area under the bust by the date is a tell-tale sign of a poorly rinsed dip.

jcping · July 7, 2004 8:06AM

Dipped and re-toned.

Russ · July 7, 2004 8:13AM

Russ, NCNE

shylock · July 7, 2004 8:31AM

I am trying to learn a little about IHCs...

As per Rick Snow, the place to look closely for dipping is around the devices -- chemical solutions tend to cling to relief areas and usually don't completely rinse off. The toughest area to rinse is under the bust -- my guess is that residue continues to seep off the profile long after the rinse in this area. This example is less obvious than that 1902, but you can see the shadow under the bust and around some areas of the date. The off-color brown is also a tipoff. (This coin was sold by a fairly respected dealer as original.)

Russ · July 7, 2004 8:40AM

Shylock,

Aside from any cleaning, that one's pretty cool. Lots of stuff going on.

Russ, NCNE

XpipedreamR · July 7, 2004 8:56AM

If that coin were MS(assuming it actually is a proof, and not MS), PCGS would bag it for questionable toning, no doubt about it. As a proof, though, it would have a better chance because proof IHC's often have wacky colors. On that one, though...I don't know.

I guess because his feedback is up to 668, my previous thread about this seller no longer applies

Gonfunko · July 7, 2004 9:01AM

Sure looks AT to me. Either way, it's so ugly I wouldn't wnat it. You might be interested in this thread pertaining to that seller.

Elcontador · July 7, 2004 9:22AM

I am sorry to be harsh, but if you want to learn about IHCs, why are you going to E-Bay to look at raw coins? If you want to piss away your money, I can't think of a better way to do it. A nice proof IHC involves IHO some serious $.

Shylock is the board's "resident expert" on IHC. Send him a PM. Better yet, go to Eagle Eye Rare Coins website (don't have it, but you can 'google' it easily enough). Ask what is the best book around re IHCs. Someone on the board will give you some suggestions. Heritage has a virtual coin collection, where you can also get an idea of what an IHC is 'supposed' to look like. Go to the Heritage site & look at the slabbed IHCs in the grade(s) and prices that interest you.

Sorry to go on about this, but whenever you are looking at a high end type coin, the first rule to follow is to NEVER look at raw coins. If you don't follow this rule, as the sun rises in the east, you will get ripped off, and only have yourself to blame.

IrishMike · July 7, 2004 9:29AM

I believe that coin to be a proof, looking at the rims. To be sure if it was cleaned you would have to look at it in hand. Regardless I would not buy a coin from a seller who is hyping it to be a 66/67. Obverse looks retoned to me.

Russ · July 7, 2004 9:37AM

<< <i>but if you want to learn about IHCs, why are you going to E-Bay to look at raw coins? If you want to piss away your money, I can't think of a better way to do it. >>

Yeah, buy them at shows like I do.

Russ, NCNE

Bochiman · July 7, 2004 12:08PM

Dammit Russ...that is what I did

Same show area too

I bought from a local dealer who I have bought many morgans from...and a few other things...so, if it was AT...I could probably get a return very easily....now, with the difference in the grading...wellllllllll......

So, I paid less than $30 for the IHC I bought (listed in a different thread...PCGS just came back with a MS61BN on the one I sent in... a 1901).
I don't consider that a lot of money to be honest.....if it was AT, the ones I bought, then it was still under $90 for all 3 and I would look at it as education because I did like the coins' looks.

But, I don't know if I should keep following Russ' examples....he beats me to the shows (he lives closer), he knows more, he is more helpful, and he scores the better coins

As for looking at ebay....well, if you only see the good stuff, can you be sure to recognize the bad stuff when you see it? I like to learn from seeing bad as well as good.

<< <i>

<< <i>but if you want to learn about IHCs, why are you going to E-Bay to look at raw coins? If you want to piss away your money, I can't think of a better way to do it. >>

Yeah, buy them at shows like I do.

Russ, NCNE >>

Is this IHC AT?

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