Interesting point Kennewickman, the buyer charges extra for insurance also, then doesn't want to pay the extra to Walstreetman. It could be said that the buyer did not pay for the insurance in full-----------------------BigE
I dont understand why some of you say I overcharge for insurance, I pay at least $2.20 on every item I insure, I use the blue and white form and insure everything for $51.00+!(except when I leave the filled forms at home)!
You can fool man but you can't fool God! He knows why you do what you do!
It doesn't matter what insurance costs, the seller can charge anything they want. It is clearly spelled out in the auction terms, and assuming buyers can read, placing a bid means agreement to those terms. You can't renegotiate afterwards and pay what you want to pay. Everybody else read the rules and figured their bids based on the same terms.
If the Post Office charges $1.30 for insurance, and you buyer pays you $1.30 by PayPal, YOU LOSE MONEY. The same goes if you charge EXACT shipping. It's an insignificant loss, but who wants to lose money. How many REAL businesses are set up to lose money on every single item they ship out. Some are set up that way, but they raise the price of the item they are selling. But, it's not like you have much control of your selling price on Ebay. It may sell for a little or a lot, but at least you can make sure you're not losing money on every single shipment. Is 70 cents too much to pad? Who cares, that's what the seller wants. If you don't like it, don't bid.
In this case the seller screwed up by not providing the service the cheap buyer kinda paid for. The payment should have been turned down, with the buyer given the choice of paying the proper amount. By accepting the $1.30 you agreed to ship insured for that amount. So at the very least you now owe the guy $1.30. If and when he decides to hit you for the full amount for not getting the coin, you then owe him the rest of the money you took from him. Next time either wait a day to ship, or just insure both of the packages if in doubt. It would have been worth the headache you are bound to get from the buyers poised to jump on your every mistake.
I use a box,bubble wrap, and the box tape with fibergass in it.
That is more expensive.
I don't think $5 is to much if you ship like I do. >>
The example here is a $16 item, and the CD mailer (I use box CD mailers, not paperboard) is the most efficient means to ship cheap coins and have enough surface area to put a label with delivery confirmation.
For more expensive items, I use 6x4x2 and 8x4x2 white box mailers, and 9x5x3 and 4x4x4 corrugated boxes and reinforced kraft tape. After having a couple of bad experiences with bubble mailers, I rarely use them.
He's saying he uses blue label insured, which isn't too bright in my opinion for a $16 item. On this type of item I would use the green label for $1.30, and print my own label with delivery confirmation for 13¢. Trying to charge $5 for shipping of a $16 coin is going to kill bids. I won't bid on a cheap item like that if the shipping is more than $3.
<< <i>He's saying he uses blue label insured, which isn't too bright in my opinion for a $16 item. On this type of item I would use the green label for $1.30, and print my own label with delivery confirmation for 13¢. Trying to charge $5 for shipping of a $16 coin is going to kill bids. I won't bid on a cheap item like that if the shipping is more than $3. >>
Hey K6AZ, what's the difference between the Blue Label Insured vs. the pic I posted above? Better protection for insurance? Thanks, Chris
With the Blue label comes truer protection, as the recipient must sign for it. The Green one is useless. The buyer does NOT have to sign and therefore can get placed in the wrong mail box or stolen and you have no proof of delivery. These are the envelopes that have the Red Bulls' Eyes on them saying INSURED or better still..."STEAL ME...STEAL ME"!...Useless
<< <i>With the Blue label comes truer protection, as the recipient must sign for it. The Green one is useless. The buyer does NOT have to sign and therefore can get placed in the wrong mail box or stolen and you have no proof of delivery. These are the envelopes that have the Red Bulls' Eyes on them saying INSURED or better still..."STEAL ME...STEAL ME"!...Useless >>
Nonsense. I've shipped several thousand items in the last five years, and have never had a green label insured turn up missing. By printing your own lables, you can get first class delivery confirmation for 13¢, and that is all you need to protect yourself from a PayPal chargeback.
Nonsense. I've shipped several thousand items in the last five years, and have never had a green label insured turn up missing. By printing your own lables, you can get first class delivery confirmation for 13¢, and that is all you need to protect yourself from a PayPal chargeback. >>
K6AZ How do you get 1st class with DC printed labels. I thought it was only Priority mail??
Oops, I figured it out--PayPal shipping. Is Epson 600 stylus good enough for labels?
I think you should just pay him and go on with life. You made an error (same one I have made) and need to correct it. Even if he has the package. Be gratuitous and maybe guilt will get a hold of him if he indeed has the coin.
After many years of trying different approaches I now send all items 1st class with delivery confirmation. $.15 bubble mailer, $.80 postage, $.55 delivery confirmation. Total of $1.50
Nice and easy--I know they received it and all is well.
Perhaps.....start using the GREEN form for auctions under $50....who cares if the guy receives it or not; who cares if he signs or not - NOT YOUR PROBLEM. If you insure and he claims he doesn't get it, then its a PO issue. Let the mail marshall's work it out...let him make the claim....you fulfilled your end of the bargin. You want to charge $2 for $1.30 insurance, then do it. I see it on ebay all the time. Its no different than charging $5 for postage - - most buyers figure that into their total cost....high ship/ins, bid less.
Learn from your mistakes................
Craig If I had it my way, stupidity would be painful!
As I said before, I would make him wait 30 days, just as you would for the USPS. I would then send him a form to fill out and have notorized that he did not receive the item. Make it look official. That way if the item shows up again (it was a PCGS coin with a cert number to track) you can get him for fraud.
It is around $20, so I would make it seem very difficult for him.
Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
<< <i>As I said before, I would make him wait 30 days, just as you would for the USPS. I would then send him a form to fill out and have notorized that he did not receive the item. Make it look official. That way if the item shows up again (it was a PCGS coin with a cert number to track) you can get him for fraud.
It is around $20, so I would make it seem very difficult for him. >>
That is why I like this forum--Wisdom speaks--I never would have thought of that. If he has the coin he may sell it in the future.
<< <i>How do you get 1st class with DC printed labels. I thought it was only Priority mail?? Oops, I figured it out--PayPal shipping. Is Epson 600 stylus good enough for labels? >>
Actually, I'm using the shipping assistant program you can download from the USPS website. Not only does it do labels, but it will email the confirmation number to your buyer.
As far as your printer, I don't know if it will print readable labels (as far as the barcode). I use a heavy duty HP laser printer and it prints them perfectly.
Actually, I'm using the shipping assistant program you can download from the USPS website. Not only does it do labels, but it will email the confirmation number to your buyer.
As far as your printer, I don't know if it will print readable labels (as far as the barcode). I use a heavy duty HP laser printer and it prints them perfectly. >>
Thanks K6AZ
I will try it next time I ship an Item--$1.16 loss if it doesn't work.
With Shipping Assistant, you don't pay for postage when you print the label. You pay at the post office, so if you have a printing problem you don't have to hassle getting a refund.
its a buck 30 up to 50 dollars and you DO have to fill out a slip ! i used to sell more higher value items on flea bay and it was not an issue. right now im raising cash to buy some good stuff and i dont need the hassle so i make insurance an option,most people pay,if they dont i buy it. if i make it mandatory in an auction (which i will from time to time) and they dont like it thats just tuff sh_t,dont try and short pay me cause you aint getting yur item til u pay me ! i just sold a 21.00 item with 6.50 shipping,what did they get ? priority mail with tracking and 100.00 insurance,cost me 6.50 on the nose,was stated in the auction,dont like it ? dont bid !
I guess the bottom line is,if the buyer paid for ins and you have no way to track the item,you refund his cash and call it a day ! your bad ! cant change it now eat it and forget it !
Getting off topic, but with the Shipping Assistant, do you have to know the weight of the item before you print the label? I don't have a scale at home and it can be hard to tell exactly how much postage different items are going to be to send -- it would be nice if you could just print the label with the 13-cent delivery confirmation and then pay whatever the actual shipping cost is at the post office. If you have to go there to pay anyway that would make sense...
BTW (to get back on topic), I recently had a similar experience -- I charged $1.30 for insurance on a $5 item (not sure why the buyer wanted to pay extra to insure a $5 item, but they did), and when I got the post office, I realized I had put the item in a plain letter envelope which you can't insure. So I sent it uninsured, refunded the buyer $1.30 (since I didn't provide the USPS insurance he had paid for), and told him I'd cover it if the coins were lost in the mail. Fortunately he got them and left a positive feedback, 'cuz I was really sweating being out that 5 dollars.
As I see it, there are two issues here. The moral side and the technical side.
The moral issue: wsm clearly states insurance is optional @ $2. on his bid page. As there is no such insurance coverage the USPS will cover for $2., he is over-charging based on the selling price. Listing an insurance coverage prior to close of auction isn't something most would do anyway.
The technical issue: Again, wsm clearly states insurance (if desired) will be $2. If the bidder didn't like this, then they had the option not to bid or email wsm for clarification. The final winning bid is a form of contract and the item description, shipping/handling, insurance can be considered "small print" but still part of the contract. The bidder had no right to reduce the insurance after-the-fact on his own reasoning.
Both parties are at fault for different reasons. The solution? As the seller, wsm should let it go and put actual insurance coverage as optional based on hammer for all future auctions.
JMHO
Everything starts and everything stops at precisely the right time for precisely the right reason.
you seller are always pulling this shi+. you just got caght. Oh what should I do? you know the right thing to do or you can srew over the next buy and make up your lose.
you ebay dealer haven't left a good impression on me.
I hate it when you see my post before I can edit the spelling.
Your indicated in your listing that insurance is $2.00. The buyer did not pay the correct amount and thus breached the contract. Now, at this point, you could void the contract and refund his money (less your out-of-pocket cost) or accept his terms by mailing the coin insured. You chose to mail the coin. However, you did not insure it. Therefore, you breached the contract, as modifed by the buyer and accepted by you.
Now, because you breached the contract, the buyer has the right to return the coin for a FULL refund, due to your breach of the contract or keep it. He claims he did not receive the coin, and you can not prove he did received it. So, you owe in a FULL refund to the buyer. As some of you pointed out, maybe the seller is self insured. I would hope you would disclose this fact in the listing but even if you don't and the buyer claims he did not recieve the shipment and the seller can't prove he did, then the "self-insured" seller needs to make a FULL refund.
I do have one question. What "green" insurance slip are you talking. Is this the " green delivery confirmation" tag or is there another insurance tag besides the blue one? I know you can buy insurance on the "confirmation tag" but it is an additional cost over and above the delivery confirmation cost.
I do have one question. What "green" insurance slip are you talking. Is this the " green delivery confirmation" tag or is there another insurance tag besides the blue one?
I assume it is in reference to the little green slip that serves as your receipt for mailing packages with insurance for $50 or less. These packages do not have to be signed for.
<< <i>I assume it is in reference to the little green slip that serves as your receipt for mailing packages with insurance for $50 or less. These packages do not have to be signed for. >>
<< <i>Getting off topic, but with the Shipping Assistant, do you have to know the weight of the item before you print the label? I don't have a scale at home and it can be hard to tell exactly how much postage different items are going to be to send -- it would be nice if you could just print the label with the 13-cent delivery confirmation and then pay whatever the actual shipping cost is at the post office. If you have to go there to pay anyway that would make sense... >>
I'm not sure why they do it, but it does require you to put a weight in. I just estimate, since they will charge you the actual postage at the post office. The only thing you have to be careful about it whether or not your package is 13 ounces or more, meaing you would have to print a priority label. If you ship coins in bubble mailers, this probably will not be a concern to you.
One thing you will have to remember with first class delivery confirmation is that the item must be a box, or if not a box, must be at least ¾" thick. This is easy to accomplish by using some bubble wrap.
After basically taking a chance and hinting around to this buyer that fraud has taken place, next thing you know, they say "The long lost coin has surfaced", positive feedback has been left! I would say they were guilty. How about you?
I wonder how many others got ripped off and did'nt know it.
You can fool man but you can't fool God! He knows why you do what you do!
<< <i>you seller are always pulling this shi+. you just got caght. Oh what should I do? you know the right thing to do or you can srew over the next buy and make up your lose.
you ebay dealer haven't left a good impression on me. >>
Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
Luckily this guy is showing some integrity, I think you should reciprocate in some fashion and put this entire dilemma to bed....
If it were me, I'd refund his entire shipping amount paid (was it $5?), apologize that the transaction went awry, and leave positive feedback. At the very minimum, refund the $1.30, send apology, and leave + feedback.
I agree with BigAl. Refund what he paid for shipping. It's not every day that these guys will be honest with you. And in the future, just insure the darn items for their value, and use the green slips. It will save you a lot of grief.
Take my advice though, in the future, for cheap items like this, use green label insured, and charge the $1.30 for insurance. It will alleviate a lot of confusion on the part of the buyer.
Comments
WSM--don't forget to ship that pcgs box I won the other day
wally
<< <i>How do you package your items?
K6AZ uses a cd mailer.Cheap shipping products.
I use a box,bubble wrap, and the box tape with fibergass in it.
That is more expensive.
I don't think $5 is to much if you ship like I do. >>
For me:
Bubble envelope from CVS: $0.49
Cut piece of cardboard from garbage to wrap around coin: Free
USPS with Delivery Confirmation: $1.38
Total: $1.97
If the Post Office charges $1.30 for insurance, and you buyer pays you $1.30 by PayPal, YOU LOSE MONEY. The same goes if you charge EXACT shipping. It's an insignificant loss, but who wants to lose money. How many REAL businesses are set up to lose money on every single item they ship out. Some are set up that way, but they raise the price of the item they are selling. But, it's not like you have much control of your selling price on Ebay. It may sell for a little or a lot, but at least you can make sure you're not losing money on every single shipment. Is 70 cents too much to pad? Who cares, that's what the seller wants. If you don't like it, don't bid.
In this case the seller screwed up by not providing the service the cheap buyer kinda paid for. The payment should have been turned down, with the buyer given the choice of paying the proper amount. By accepting the $1.30 you agreed to ship insured for that amount. So at the very least you now owe the guy $1.30. If and when he decides to hit you for the full amount for not getting the coin, you then owe him the rest of the money you took from him. Next time either wait a day to ship, or just insure both of the packages if in doubt. It would have been worth the headache you are bound to get from the buyers poised to jump on your every mistake.
<< <i>How do you package your items?
K6AZ uses a cd mailer.Cheap shipping products.
I use a box,bubble wrap, and the box tape with fibergass in it.
That is more expensive.
I don't think $5 is to much if you ship like I do. >>
The example here is a $16 item, and the CD mailer (I use box CD mailers, not paperboard) is the most efficient means to ship cheap coins and have enough surface area to put a label with delivery confirmation.
For more expensive items, I use 6x4x2 and 8x4x2 white box mailers, and 9x5x3 and 4x4x4 corrugated boxes and reinforced kraft tape. After having a couple of bad experiences with bubble mailers, I rarely use them.
<< <i>K6AZ, Sorry, but thats not the form I use, I pay for the better insurance! >>
This is the form you use? I believe the one K6AZ shows is the form to file a claim for lost item or the receipt you get after you filed the form...
<< <i>He's saying he uses blue label insured, which isn't too bright in my opinion for a $16 item. On this type of item I would use the green label for $1.30, and print my own label with delivery confirmation for 13¢. Trying to charge $5 for shipping of a $16 coin is going to kill bids. I won't bid on a cheap item like that if the shipping is more than $3. >>
Hey K6AZ, what's the difference between the Blue Label Insured vs. the pic I posted above? Better protection for insurance?
Thanks,
Chris
Filling out insurance forms and the hassle of claims forms(very time consuming, been there done that.
Boy, I think I would stop making coments. It takes me roughly 30 seconds to fill out that little green insurance forms. Who's really being cheap!
Looking for PCGS AU58 Washington's, 32-63.
<< <i>With the Blue label comes truer protection, as the recipient must sign for it. The Green one is useless. The buyer does NOT have to sign and therefore can get placed in the wrong mail box or stolen and you have no proof of delivery. These are the envelopes that have the Red Bulls' Eyes on them saying INSURED or better still..."STEAL ME...STEAL ME"!...Useless
Nonsense. I've shipped several thousand items in the last five years, and have never had a green label insured turn up missing. By printing your own lables, you can get first class delivery confirmation for 13¢, and that is all you need to protect yourself from a PayPal chargeback.
Nonsense. I've shipped several thousand items in the last five years, and have never had a green label insured turn up missing. By printing your own lables, you can get first class delivery confirmation for 13¢, and that is all you need to protect yourself from a PayPal chargeback. >>
K6AZ
How do you get 1st class with DC printed labels. I thought it was only Priority mail??
Oops, I figured it out--PayPal shipping. Is Epson 600 stylus good enough for labels?
I think you should just pay him and go on with life. You made an error (same one I have made) and need to correct it. Even if he has the package. Be gratuitous and maybe guilt will get a hold of him if he indeed has the coin.
After many years of trying different approaches I now send all items 1st class with delivery confirmation. $.15 bubble mailer, $.80 postage, $.55 delivery confirmation. Total of $1.50
Nice and easy--I know they received it and all is well.
Rookie Joe
Learn from your mistakes................
If I had it my way, stupidity would be painful!
It is around $20, so I would make it seem very difficult for him.
<< <i>As I said before, I would make him wait 30 days, just as you would for the USPS. I would then send him a form to fill out and have notorized that he did not receive the item. Make it look official. That way if the item shows up again (it was a PCGS coin with a cert number to track) you can get him for fraud.
It is around $20, so I would make it seem very difficult for him. >>
That is why I like this forum--Wisdom speaks--I never would have thought of that. If he has the coin he may sell it in the future.
Joe
<< <i>How do you get 1st class with DC printed labels. I thought it was only Priority mail??
Oops, I figured it out--PayPal shipping. Is Epson 600 stylus good enough for labels? >>
Actually, I'm using the shipping assistant program you can download from the USPS website. Not only does it do labels, but it will email the confirmation number to your buyer.
As far as your printer, I don't know if it will print readable labels (as far as the barcode). I use a heavy duty HP laser printer and it prints them perfectly.
Actually, I'm using the shipping assistant program you can download from the USPS website. Not only does it do labels, but it will email the confirmation number to your buyer.
As far as your printer, I don't know if it will print readable labels (as far as the barcode). I use a heavy duty HP laser printer and it prints them perfectly. >>
Thanks K6AZ
I will try it next time I ship an Item--$1.16 loss if it doesn't work.
Joe
USPS Shipping Assistant
i used to sell more higher value items on flea bay and it was not an issue.
right now im raising cash to buy some good stuff and i dont need the hassle so i make insurance an option,most people pay,if they dont i buy it.
if i make it mandatory in an auction (which i will from time to time) and they dont like it thats just tuff sh_t,dont try and short pay me cause you aint getting yur item til u pay me !
i just sold a 21.00 item with 6.50 shipping,what did they get ? priority mail with tracking and 100.00 insurance,cost me 6.50 on the nose,was stated in the auction,dont like it ? dont bid !
I guess the bottom line is,if the buyer paid for ins and you have no way to track the item,you refund his cash and call it a day !
your bad ! cant change it now
eat it and forget it !
Proof
<< <i>its a buck 30 up to 50 dollars and you DO have to fill out a slip !
Proof >>
Not exactly sure what you are trying to say here but if it is under $50, you do not have to fill out a slip.
The moral issue: wsm clearly states insurance is optional @ $2. on his bid page. As there is no such insurance coverage the USPS will cover for $2., he is over-charging based on the selling price. Listing an insurance coverage prior to close of auction isn't something most would do anyway.
The technical issue: Again, wsm clearly states insurance (if desired) will be $2. If the bidder didn't like this, then they had the option not to bid or email wsm for clarification. The final winning bid is a form of contract and the item description, shipping/handling, insurance can be considered "small print" but still part of the contract. The bidder had no right to reduce the insurance after-the-fact on his own reasoning.
Both parties are at fault for different reasons. The solution? As the seller, wsm should let it go and put actual insurance coverage as optional based on hammer for all future auctions.
JMHO
you ebay dealer haven't left a good impression on me.
I hate it when you see my post before I can edit the spelling.
Always looking for nice type coins
my local dealer
Your indicated in your listing that insurance is $2.00. The buyer did not pay the correct amount and thus breached the contract. Now, at this point, you could void the contract and refund his money (less your out-of-pocket cost) or accept his terms by mailing the coin insured. You chose to mail the coin. However, you did not insure it. Therefore, you breached the contract, as modifed by the buyer and accepted by you.
Now, because you breached the contract, the buyer has the right to return the coin for a FULL refund, due to your breach of the contract or keep it. He claims he did not receive the coin, and you can not prove he did received it. So, you owe in a FULL refund to the buyer. As some of you pointed out, maybe the seller is self insured. I would hope you would disclose this fact in the listing but even if you don't and the buyer claims he did not recieve the shipment and the seller can't prove he did, then the "self-insured" seller needs to make a FULL refund.
I do have one question. What "green" insurance slip are you talking. Is this the " green delivery confirmation" tag or is there another insurance tag besides the blue one? I know you can buy insurance on the "confirmation tag" but it is an additional cost over and above the delivery confirmation cost.
I assume it is in reference to the little green slip that serves as your receipt for mailing packages with insurance for $50 or less. These packages do not have to be signed for.
Joe.
<< <i>I assume it is in reference to the little green slip that serves as your receipt for mailing packages with insurance for $50 or less. These packages do not have to be signed for. >>
That's right. I forgot about them little buggers.
<< <i>Getting off topic, but with the Shipping Assistant, do you have to know the weight of the item before you print the label? I don't have a scale at home and it can be hard to tell exactly how much postage different items are going to be to send -- it would be nice if you could just print the label with the 13-cent delivery confirmation and then pay whatever the actual shipping cost is at the post office. If you have to go there to pay anyway that would make sense... >>
I'm not sure why they do it, but it does require you to put a weight in. I just estimate, since they will charge you the actual postage at the post office. The only thing you have to be careful about it whether or not your package is 13 ounces or more, meaing you would have to print a priority label. If you ship coins in bubble mailers, this probably will not be a concern to you.
One thing you will have to remember with first class delivery confirmation is that the item must be a box, or if not a box, must be at least ¾" thick. This is easy to accomplish by using some bubble wrap.
WSM -- you're a tool.
I wonder how many others got ripped off and did'nt know it.
He has left + feedback, so are you going to leave the same?
<< <i>you seller are always pulling this shi+. you just got caght. Oh what should I do? you know the right thing to do or you can srew over the next buy and make up your lose.
you ebay dealer haven't left a good impression on me. >>
Luckily this guy is showing some integrity, I think you should reciprocate in some fashion and put this entire dilemma to bed....
If it were me, I'd refund his entire shipping amount paid (was it $5?), apologize that the transaction went awry, and leave positive feedback. At the very minimum, refund the $1.30, send apology, and leave + feedback.
Take my advice though, in the future, for cheap items like this, use green label insured, and charge the $1.30 for insurance. It will alleviate a lot of confusion on the part of the buyer.