Washington grading NGC vs. PCGS.

mgoodm3 · April 29, 2004 7:07AM

I was looking at David Lawrence and saw big price differences between Ms67's with PCGS or NGC slabs. Eg. 1940 Washington NGC 67 - $275, 1940 PCGS 67 - $890. It seemed to be across the board for multiple dates and MM's. Is NGC that much less conservative?

coinguy1 · April 29, 2004 7:20AM

According to the most current published Population and Census reports, PCGS has graded 693 1940 Quarters, 50 of them being MS67's. NGC has graded 656, with 128 having received the MS67 grade.

This in itself, does not prove that PCGS is stricter, as it is possible that the overall quality of those sent to NGC for grading was better than that which was submitted to PCGS. But, the figures at least make it appear that PCGS was stricter. Overall, prices realized in public auctions seem to bear that out.

Other factors to consider:

It is a near certainty that some of the NGC examples will be superior to the PCGS ones and vise-versa.

Sometimes coins certified by one grading service bring higher prices than those graded by another, due to their marketing.

Sometimes the demand (for inclusion in registry sets, etc.) is simply greater for coins graded by a particular grading company. That demand might be on a sight-unseen basis, a sight-seen basis or both.

mgoodm3 · April 29, 2004 7:26AM

I found it interesting because I found 5 or 6 dates in the 40's where the asking price was 4 to 5 times higher when in a PCGS slab. I hadn't noted that big of price difference between the services before in other series.

IrishMike · April 29, 2004 8:17AM

If you have seen some of the quarters NGC has graded in their older fat slabs you have to wonder sometimes if they got the grade right, they might technically be that grade but I wouldn't want to own them. On the other hand if you compare quarters of the same grade side by side in PCGS holders you have to wonder how they can be the same grade. As always buy the coin. There is no question that for higher grades generally speaking their is more demand for those holdered by PCGS thus the reason for higher prices.

IrishMike · April 29, 2004 9:25AM

I think an educated and experienced collector would pay the most for the coin that they think deserves it unless they are driven by other motives. If you had two MS67 quarters side by side and in your opinion they were equal but one was 4 times the price of the other but in your slab of choice which one would you buy? I'd purchase the cheaper one.

mgoodm3 · April 29, 2004 9:45AM

Here's a listing of dates I found with NGC price first and PCGS price second. All in 67

1935 635 1175
1936 1400 2550
1937 680 1050
1937S 2360 6850
1938 1050 2960
1940D 2000 4350
1943 268 890
1944 200 1125
1947 190 790
1948 135 815
1949D 190 1625

Bubblehead · April 29, 2004 10:47AM

After perusing the above, I felt I had to add my two cents.
For what it's worth.
Please, don't yell at me.
I have, in the past 2 years, submitted 7 NGC Washington's. to PCGS.
One, I left in the slab. Requested a cross at any grade. returned, as MS65. One point lower.
The other's, a mix, but all 40's, and cracked out first... Not a single one was returned at the same grade. They all dropped 1 point.
I'm not happy about the grades, but it reinforces some posts above.
The NGC grade of MS67, seems to be the breaking point.
As I have zero Washington's, in MS67 PCGS holders, I can't make any comparisons.

XpipedreamR · April 29, 2004 10:56AM

I have been consistently disappointed by NGC Washingtons. They seem consistently overgraded, compared to PCGS. I'm talking mostly about the MS65-66 range. When I see them on eBay, I pass right by...I certainly wouldn't buy one sight unseen. Maybe I'm overlooking some good coins this way, but I don't trust NGC Washingtons.

Boom · April 29, 2004 2:17PM

I have had just the opposite luck. Every NGC 66 Quarter that I submitted for crossover did cross to

PCGS 66. One NGC 65 DNC and one NGC 67 DNC and that did not surprise me at all. I figured that

would be the case going in. Just like those 32-D's that upgraded...I guess it's the way I pick

coins....most of my set is undergraded! I've seen PCGS 64's that look every bit as good as 66s.

I've seen flawless 66s that by all rights should be 67s and 67s that have left me scratching my head

wondering , "What the

"...with an obvious present day bias towards original Mint Set

toning! Just go to some of the top sets and look at the pix. There are some real nice NGC 67 coins but

obviously the standard here is not the same as across the street! I'll say it till I die. BUY THE COIN!

Not a number. The numbers eventually will take care of themselves.

Forget the slab-and just look

at the coin. If it pleases your eye....BUY IT! Trust your insincts and your 5X and loupe! Eye appeal!

Hoot · April 29, 2004 3:04PM

I had two PCGS graded Washingtons - 1952 and a 1953-S. Both were graded MS66 and were toned in a very pretty way. I decided to crack them and wsend them to NGC because I thought they had a chance at a "star" designation, which I like. They BOTH returned MS65, no star. I cracked them and stuffed them in my album, which is probably what I should have done in the first place. The ONLY way to determine how well a coin will cross from one service to the next is to crack it and submit it raw. I have done this at least a hundred times and can recall only a small number (less than 5?) that did not cross at the same grade going from NGC to PCGS or vice-versa. I'll admit that most of the coins I've crossed have been buffalo and Jefferson nickels.

Hoot

dorkkarl · April 29, 2004 10:05PM

bingo.

once i crack em out, i forget about the plastic grade anyway (if i even ever looked at it).

K S

pmh1nic · April 29, 2004 10:38PM

Irishmike

"As always buy the coin."

Wonderful words of wisdom.

ManOfCoins

"The difference between Ngc quality and Pcgs in quality is tremendous at the ms 67 level"...."The demand is higher because the quality is so much better"

Give me a break. Since I haven't ranted about this in a while let me vent. Even if the NGC 67 is an accurately graded 66 by PCGS standards there won't be "tremendous" differences between the two coins. Even given the differences in the grading standards each company uses by definition both coins have to have a very small number of miniscule marks (with no more than two or three in a prime focal area), brilliant luster and a bold strike. There are not tremendous differences between accurately graded 66's and 67's and if you pay huge premiums you're paying them for those miniscule difference between the two coins.

Android · April 30, 2004 12:52AM

I've always found this discussion particularly interesting. Especially since no one can tell me which MS67 grade is correct, PCGS's or NGC's. The assumption is that NGC's are overgraded. Isn't it possible that PCGS's are undergraded thus creating a false sense of what a true MS67 grade is? Including falsely inflated prices? Who is right? Are PCGS MS67's priced the same as an NGC MS68? Or do NGC MS68's sell at a premium to PCGS MS67's?

pmh1nic · April 30, 2004 4:44AM

"Isn't it possible that PCGS's are undergraded thus creating a false sense of what a true MS67 grade is?"

Yes, a thousand times yes.

Washington grading NGC vs. PCGS.

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